MINDEF want to buy Lockheed P-3 Orion MPA

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Wah lau, already got Fokker 50, still want to buy used P-3s. Buy means buy the frame and engines only. Still need to upgrade them. The Taiwanese already own their own P-3s which they bought recently in 2007. Now they are spending USD$55 million to upgrade each plane. Singapore still has to buy the plane and than upgrade it. sup sup its gonna cost the tax payer $400 million. I say contunue to use the damn Fokker 50s, and save us some money


SINGAPORE, Dec. 17 (UPI) -- Singapore is considering buying up to four U.S. Navy's surplus P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft, Lockheed Martin said.

"They have issued a letter of request to look at P-3s," said Mark Jarvis, Lockheed's director of design and production for P-3 programs.

Singapore, which operates five Fokker 50 maritime patrol aircraft, would pick up the Navy's surplus Orions as they are phased out and replaced by the Boeing 737-based P-8A Poseidon.

Configuration of the aircraft for Singapore is likely to be similar to 12 secondhand Orions being upgraded for delivery to Taiwan beginning in 2012.

In early 2009, Lockheed Martin's Maritime Systems and Sensors Tactical Systems division won a $666 million fixed-price contract for the procurement of phased depot maintenance, structural service life extension and avionics modification on 12 P-3C aircraft for the Taiwanese government.

Despite Lockheed shutting down its P-3C production lines in Burbank, Calif., in 1991, there continues to be demand for revamped versions of the four-engine turboprop maritime patrol aircraft. Modernizations are done at Lockheed's Greenville site in South Carolina.

The first flight of the prototype flew in August 1958 and was based on Lockheed's commercial airliner the L-188 Electra but with structural modifications. These include a bomb bay, a nose radar cone and a long tail extension to house submarine detection systems. Wing hard points also were added to carry missiles.

Power is from four Rolls-Royce Allison T56 turboprops, which give it a top speed of 411 knots, meaning it is comparable to the fastest propeller fighters, or even slow low-bypass turbofan jets such as the A-10 Thunderbolt II or the S-3 Viking.

Similar aircraft to the P-3C include the Soviet Ilyushin Il-38 and the French Breguet Atlantic.

More than 430 P-3s are in use by 17 countries, Lockheed says.

Other countries that have ordered upgrades or which are in discussion with Lockheed include Canada, Norway and Germany, which "is probably our next customer" and whose navy operates eight Orions, Jarvis said. The U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency is also looking at upgrades.

Jarvis said Lockheed is considering, after customer inquiries, the installation of an upgraded version of the T56 engine and using new propellers to improve performance and reliability. "We would look to get into the wind tunnel maybe around the end of next year."

The T56 was developed by the Allison Engine Company for the Lockheed C-130 transport entering production in 1954. It is now produced by Rolls-Royce, which acquired Allison in 1995.

The latest T56 version, the series IV, produces 5,250 shaft horsepower and is used in the Northrop Grumman E-2C+ Hawkeye, Rolls-Royce said. It produces 27 percent more power but uses 13 percent less fuel.

The success of the P-3C life extensions is in contrast to the difficulties that BAe has had in prolonging the life of the jet-powered Nimrod patrol aircraft. The Nimrod was originally built by Hawker Siddeley and based on the Comet passenger aircraft made by de Havilland in the early 1960s.

Cost and technical issues have dogged BAe in its development of the Nimrod MR4A and the U.K. government axed its orders for the plane this fall as part of a major savings program.
 
Wah lau, already got Fokker 50, still want to buy used P-3s. Buy means buy the frame and engines only. Still need to upgrade them. The Taiwanese already own their own P-3s which they bought recently in 2007. Now they are spending USD$55 million to upgrade each plane. Singapore still has to buy the plane and than upgrade it. sup sup its gonna cost the tax payer $400 million. I say contunue to use the damn Fokker 50s, and save us some money

Fokker has its limitations lah, its only armed with Harpoon missiles and useful for surface targets only. A P3C, despite its age can be rebuilt, armed to the death with bombs, depth charges, sonars, radars for threats on the surface and underwater.

Besides, Fokker orredi close shop liao , spare parts acquisition is going to be a logistical nightmare. P3s on the other hand are still relatively plentiful for spares :D
 
Thank you PAP for you kind Political Donations to the USA with this purchase. Sorry to Singaporean Tax Payers!
:D
 
Dear PAP

The F 50 was designed to work with the MCVS. The Fokker was the Sensor, the MCV the OTH shooter.

The Formidable's are a different kettle of fish, longer ranges, longer sustaining capability, it needs a long legged sensor platform which complements it


Locke
 
Dear PAP

The F 50 was designed to work with the MCVS. The Fokker was the Sensor, the MCV the OTH shooter.

The Formidable's are a different kettle of fish, longer ranges, longer sustaining capability, it needs a long legged sensor platform which complements it


Locke

In the end all are just stupid ideas to squander tax dollars to fund the Evil Ang Moh who exploited us Asians to screw each other buying their useless toys. US Navy can not even deal with Somalian Pirates, French sent their aircraft carrier there to be withdrawn within 24Hrs. These are just waste of money. Pirates town booming due to naval incompetency, they use tiny cheap boats and primitive weapons, huge profits and ULTRA SAFE from the US navy.

Fearful and foolish Asian Govts buy tons of useless Ang Moh Junks to fuck each other, better buy vibrators to fuck own ass than these!
 

orion3.jpg


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erm...will this help search for Mas Selamat if he escape again?
 
Dear PAP

The F 50 was designed to work with the MCVS. The Fokker was the Sensor, the MCV the OTH shooter.

The Formidable's are a different kettle of fish, longer ranges, longer sustaining capability, it needs a long legged sensor platform which complements it


Locke

Locke, u are spouting nonsense again. where is the sub threat coming from? If u need to shoot OTH, u have AWACS and F-15s, both much longer range than the Formidable's sensors.
 
Since the US is in the economical dire straits, the S'pore govt is obligated to help the Obama Admin as the US ally! No matter how, the influence of the Americans is strongly felt in the Pacific zone! Frankly, those Lockheeds dun really serve real purpose cos LHL already hve the Awacs! Haha..such a little mound we hve, afew inter-continental ballistics will just sufficient to "vapourise" our existence from planet Earth!
 
They shld get the SR-71s instead if they wan to "how lian"...hahaha! Mindef is obviously spending way over the defence budget buying the flying scrap metals! Hahaha...
 
It will help mimic America if they don't come to our rescue !
 
I agree, there is only 2 other nearby countries that own subs. One is malaysia (which was forced to buy them when we got ours) and the other is Indonesia which I think is old Russian Kilo class. These P-3s are way overkill, but that is not the real reason they are buying them.

The Indons have the Type 209, old but still a formidable submarine if maintained and refitted properly. They are also planning to purchase 2 more Kilo class submarines in the future

The Malays have 2 Scorpenes and 1 Augusta class subs which is use mainly for training.

The Viets will have 6 Kilo class submarines soon.

I am just naming the South East Asian nations with Subs, the Indians and Chinese have submarines too. The South China Sea will soon be a playground for those who have submarines and those who have the capability to hunt them down. :D
 
the p-3 orion is a sitting duck in hostile territory, especially to air-to-air and land-to-air targeting. in the u.s., it is used for coastal defence in anti-sub warfare. well duh. how big are u.s coasts on both the atlantic and pacific sides of oceanic coverage and how far removed are hostile air and land threats to the p-3 orion?

it is flown mostly solely and without air protection on both coasts to seek out hostile subs. that's because the geography of the u.s. can afford such a risk. and it is designed/modified (with commercial airliners) strictly for just such a purpose. if it is operating in hostile waters on a daily basis, the u.s. navy would have equipped a purpose-built plane with a stealth version more capable of defending itself and evading anti-air defences.

what about sg waters? it is a different geography from the u.s., and the proximity to so many potential hostile territories and anti-air elements make this p-3 orion the most ineffective sitting duck in south east asia. it needs a complete rethink. the u.s. will sell anything obsolete if there is a sucker to buy it.
 
nice, 3G SAF investing in 1958 technology. I pity the fools who got misled by the overly exaggerated SAF commercials and signed on.
 
although the p-3 orion is based on 50's lockheed l-188 electra commercial airliner frame, the avionics for anti-sub warfare and magnetic detection are up-to-date and pretty advanced. it needs a sizable fuselage to house the avionics, electronics and crew. it also needs to be slower than most jet aircraft, at not more than 450 mph; and it needs to be fuel-efficient at that speed and below. when it was originally designed with the l-188 airframe in mind during the cold war, ballistic missile tracking and submarine detection were key requirements. air superiority must first be achieved when deploying them overseas, far away from u.s. coastal defences. for overseas ops, the u.s. navy used it near cuba, vietnam, iraq, afghanistan, somalia, and the taiwan straits (with caveat below). now, it has been morphed strictly into maritime surveillance and anti-sub warfare duties, with ballistic missile tracking out of its primary mission. it can operate with impunity in theaters where the u.s. has absolute air superiority over her foes. in taiwan though, the u.s. has low to moderate air superiority (not absolute) and pushed the p-3 to go beyond its comfort zone and protective cover, and what was the result? a p-3 orion was forced by low grade chinese jets to land in chinese territory and faced the humiliation of being stripped apart. when a plane is abused and misused by naval nincompoops to go far beyond its original mission and design intention, some shit is gonna give. stupid taiwanese fell for it too, not just stupid sinkies.
 
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