HDB declares war on GMS

[Rogue Trader]

1 million HDB flats built in 50 years

Owner of millionth flat in Punggol paid $245,000 for 4-room unit, report said. -AsiaOne

Sun, Dec 19, 2010
AsiaOne

SINGAPORE'S Housing Development Board (HDB) on Sunday marked a key milestone of having built a million flats in just five decades.

Treelodge@Punggol - a seven apartment block of 709 units - was officially declared complete today, and along with it, the millionth flat since HDB started in Feb 1, 1960.

The owners of this landmark unit, Mr Wang Weiji and wife Ms Christina Ng, were picked through a computer ballot of residents in the new development.

They had paid $245,000 for the 4-room flat which Ms Ng thought was reasonable, a Channel News Asia report said.

The first-time home owners, who are currently staying with Mr Wang's parents in Hougang, had booked the flat back in 2007 when Treelodge@Punggol was launched.

Besides playing home to HDB's millionth flat, Treelodge@Punggol is also the HDB's first eco-precinct, employing green technologies to lower maintenance costs and to promote environmental sustainability.

Innovations include solar panels used to power lightings in common areas and cool walls and greening on roof decks, which help to lower ambient temperature.

A 650-metre long tree-lined pathway will also circle the development - a first for HDB precincts in Singapore.

Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Defence Mr Teo Chee Hean, who officiated the completion ceremony today, said, "In just 50 years, the HDB has built one million flats to house a nation. This is no mean feat, and few other countries can lay claim to such an outstanding achievement in so short a time."

 

[Ilovelamb]

Title should be All young Singaporean declares war on GMS

 

[Char_Azn]

IIRC GMS base his calculations on resale flats. He should have done it using first time buyer's price direct from HDB. Then again, if he had done that, it'll just make himself look stupid. It's a classic example of how to manupulate the data to make yourself look good something that PAP has been accused of doing all the time but which the Opposition party has also been doing all this time

 

[Glaringly]

SINGAPORE'S Housing Development Board (HDB) on Sunday marked a key milestone of having built a million flats in just five decades.

Just wonder, we had 3 million Citizens and we had 1 million flats less 5~10% rebuilt. Plus the many condos, apartments and landed!

So, where does the under supply comes from?

 

[Ramseth]

Just wonder, we had 3 million Citizens and we had 1 million flats less 5~10% rebuilt. Plus the many condos, apartments and landed!

So, where does the under supply comes from?

You forgot about the 2 million foreigners.

 

[Char_Azn]

You forgot about the 2 million foreigners.

I think we need the numbers of condo, private houses and worker dormitories, other accommodations before we can come to any conclusion. Anyone has any numbers on those

 

[knightriderz]

You forgot about the 2 million foreigners.

They haf demo quite a lot of flats le

 

[Char_Azn]

They haf demo quite a lot of flats le

Normally those they tear down they built higher flats. I think it's safe to assume that 3-4 person live in 1 apartment. SG total population 5 million, divide by 4 = 1.25 million apartments needed

We need the figures of all housing types to be sure if we have enough.

 

[Glaringly]

You forgot about the 2 million foreigners.

No I didn't forget them, just that they cannot buy HDB!

In any case, we know where those pennyless foreign workers are being pack into.

 

[Ramseth]

I think we need the numbers of condo, private houses and worker dormitories, other accommodations before we can come to any conclusion. Anyone has any numbers on those

Also, there're the singles and divorced without children, me included. 1 person hogging down a 3-room flat. Counting my immedate next door neighbours on the same storey, there're already 5 in a row. Private properties will see richie rich like Locke owning one mansion and one condo both in prime districts, just 1 person. If the government would build more 1-room or 2-room for singles, there'd be more units available per km2., not more land wasted per km2.

 

[Char_Azn]

Also, there're the singles and divorced without children, me included. 1 person hogging down a 3-room flat. Counting my immedate next door neighbours on the same storey, there're already 5 in a row. Private properties will see richie rich like Locke owning one mansion and one condo both in prime districts, just 1 person. If the government would build more 1-room or 2-room for singles, there'd be more units available per km2., not more land wasted per km2.

There was a news report about a joker who lives in a 1 rm flat, 7 children, + wife + parents = 11 in 1 apartment. I think its fair to assume that the average apartment will have about 3-4 person living in it. There will always be a bunch of singles and a few with insanely high numbers(the mat will help to average up the numbers)

And I do believe the rich fellows are not stupid enough to leave those big houses empty. I am assuming most of them will rent them out

And I think the government is making sure the land is properly used. From what I've noticed, when they demolish 1 flat, they will build one that's twice as tall in its place.

In which case, the government tells us enough housing, the opposition claim, not enough housing. I usually don't believe either. I prefer to do my own research

 

[Glaringly]

The owners of this landmark unit, Mr Wang Weiji and wife Ms Christina Ng, were picked through a computer ballot of residents in the new development.

They had paid $245,000 for the 4-room flat which Ms Ng thought was reasonable, a Channel News Asia report said.

Heh, Mr Wang and Ms Ng, I only paid S$60,000 for my 4-room new flat before I get married.

I think you kanna Kotok and still don't know.

 

[Ramseth]

And I think the government is making sure the land is properly used. From what I've noticed, when they demolish 1 flat, they will build one that's twice as tall in its place.

Keep building vertically will increase the density horiztonally. The airspace is free and expandable but the land size isn't. This contributes to the congestion and public transport problems. I believe the government is balancing that too, otherwise just build higher and higher everywhere.

 

[silverfox@]

All these talk about HDB flats overpriced, prices go up, only boils down to 2 factors.

Demand & Supply.

Supply less, Demand more, price go up.
Demand less, Supply more, price come down. No need market cooling restrictions.

Tell MBT build another 1 million flats and population still remain the same, then we see whether prices will still go up or not.

 

[Glaringly]

Absolutely rubbish. There are other factors involved.

When I bought my new flats I have to wait 4 to 5 years to get my keys. The demand over supply then, is no less then today's market.

All these talk about HDB flats overpriced, prices go up, only boils down to 2 factors.

Demand & Supply.

Supply less, Demand more, price go up.
Demand less, Supply more, price come down. No need market cooling restrictions.

Tell MBT build another 1 million flats and population still remain the same, then we see whether prices will still go up or not.

 

[silverfox@]

Absolutely rubbish. There are other factors involved.

When I bought my new flats I have to wait 4 to 5 years to get my keys. The demand over supply then, is no less then today's market.

You wait 4-5 years to get keys is to wait for TOP. If Demand more than supply, you wait for supply. If Supply more than Demand, you slowly choose.

If there are so many empty houses for sale and so few buyers, you want to say prices will still go up? It will become buyer's market and not seller's market.
Seller's market price go up. Buyer's market price comes down.

 

[Glaringly]

I thought I mentioned demand over supply?

Anyway, it's common knowledge to many "what other factors" I am referring too. Not just a case of demand and supply.

You wait 4-5 years to get keys is to wait for TOP. If Demand more than supply, you wait for supply. If Supply more than Demand, you slowly choose.

If there are so many empty houses for sale and so few buyers, you want to say prices will still go up? It will become buyer's market and not seller's market.
Seller's market price go up. Buyer's market price comes down.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

The mismatch of Demand and Supply in the New HDB flat market due to MBT's "caught off guard" has been transferred to Resale Markt via this increase in grants for "lower income" couples.

One must not look at the difference in prices of the flats in both New and Resale flat markets as just that difference. For every dollar difference, you must add in interest cost. This difference in prices will compound over time with interest rate.

Who benefits from these "grants"? Many think it will benefit Singaporeans, especially those first time buyers. Look deeper into the situation. If you are a citizen selling your flat in the resale market, whether you downgrade or upgrade, you will have to buy another flat. These grants which sustain the high prices will not benefit you unless, you are like me, sold my flat and stay with my parent.

When in the short term, housing stock is fixed, an increased in demand will create a mismatch to supply. Who are the ones who could just sell off their flats and take full profits from such sales? Definitely less so for Singaporeans. PRs, yes. They could just sell off and retire back home with lower cost of living. That's the truth that many people cannot see. And that is why many PRs are trying to buy resale HDB flats now.

The influx of foreigners thus increase of PRs buyers in resale market will definitely push prices up. They do not have loyalty to this land. Most likely, they are here to earn enough money so that they could live a comfortable life back home or migrate to somewhere else.

The complexity of the influx of foreigners and PRs is not easy to solve. They are here and need accommodation. HDB will become of their option when the rules do not prevent them from owning one. They also create "excess demand" on the market. Well, imagine if only citizens are allowed to buy HDB flats, regardless of New or resale. There will be less problem of mismatch of demand and supply.

When PRs come into the picture, it creates excess demand on the market. Without an increase in the housing stock, there is no way we could accommodate both Singaporeans and PRs with the present HDB system without pushing up the prices in resale market. The worst thing to happen is that HDB failed to build more flats for new citizen entrants but instead, to take the quick remedy to their incompetence, pushes these new citizens to resale market with more grants!

The result is pretty obvious now. You will start seeing more and more HDB flats over-populated. I have come to know of 3 room HDB flat being populated by 14 people altogether!

HDB resale market will crash someday. The reason is simple. When people over commit themselves with 30 year mortgage, they will inevitably forced to sell off if the present low interest rate starts to climb. The PRs will be the first one to sell off and leave.

Stopping this fire with soft landing is an urgent task right now. Young Singaporeans should not bear the brunt of the incompetency of HDB and its negligence in not building enough new flats. It is difficult to give you a full picture because of the complexity. But please don't be fooled by half baked people like Ramseth who goes around to talk nonsense anything about economics when they don't even know what's going on there.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Tristan]

I think GMS is assuming that the economy stays at inertia, which is fundamentally wrong. Economic forces will always rise, as with people's aspirations, abilities and income capacity. My parents got their first flat at S$11K.

Basically, the grant is given to help young couples own their first home. The closer you are to your parents' home, the higher the grant. Nothing wrong with that argument. I am not ashamed to say that I have benefitted from that grant. GMS insists that everyone sells their flats only to buy another. I didn't. I sold my flat to buy a landed property. GMS is assuming that everyone who starts out with a HDB dies in a HDB. That assumption is wrong. Not everyone sells their homes and stays with their parents, not everyone sells their HDB pigeon hole to buy another, not everyone will stay a computer dealer all their lives.

Market forces does not allow for a mismatch of demand and supply. That is ludicrous.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

My message is simple, don't take poison as medicine.

I have explained, even with the grant, you are going to pay higher prices for a resale flat, as compared to New HDB flat at cost price. For every $10K difference in prices, you are going to be burdened more than $10k with interests.

You are assuming that all Singaporeans can be like you, upgrade to landed property. The truth is, very few can do that. Getting their FIRST FLAT at COST PRICE will make that dream MORE POSSIBLE to more people rather than talking about giving grants to those who are buying resale flats.

It seems that you do not really understand the term of mismatch. There are lots of people waiting to buy new HDB flats from HDB but HDB did not build more in 2007. That is mismatch. Housing stocks or supply of resale flats is not something that you can "produce" easily, not like rice or toys. When the demand is increased due to influx of PRs as well as first time buyers, there is a mismatch as even when prices start to surge, there isn't even supply to satisfy demand.

Goh Meng Seng

I think GMS is assuming that the economy stays at inertia, which is fundamentally wrong. Economic forces will always rise, as with people's aspirations, abilities and income capacity. My parents got their first flat at S$11K.

Basically, the grant is given to help young couples own their first home. The closer you are to your parents' home, the higher the grant. Nothing wrong with that argument. I am not ashamed to say that I have benefitted from that grant. GMS insists that everyone sells their flats only to buy another. I didn't. I sold my flat to buy a landed property. GMS is assuming that everyone who starts out with a HDB dies in a HDB. That assumption is wrong. Not everyone sells their homes and stays with their parents, not everyone sells their HDB pigeon hole to buy another, not everyone will stay a computer dealer all their lives.

Market forces does not allow for a mismatch of demand and supply. That is ludicrous.