finally NTU agrees to return 540 PHD students place to singaporeans

[annexa]

Half of these places will be for Singaporeans, a bid to increase the number of local researchers. There are now 2,700 PhD students in NTU, and Singaporeans make up 20 per cent of this number. The new places mean 40 per cent of doctorate students will be Singaporeans.

At the National University of Singapore, about one third of its 4,200 PhD students are Singaporeans and permanent residents.

When they add PR to their answer, you know they probably try to hide thing.

 

[vamjok]

indeed you are.

enlighten me then

 

[sadfcuk]

I think you also need to be aware that most people that took PhD are on scholarships and there is free allowances and pay. And more than 50% after graduating stay behind to be lecturers and associate professors, and given insane pay.

Which local doesnt want a PhD? Can you tell me, thanks? =)

You are wrong about this.

Local PhD graduates graduate, but the local universities rarely hire them.

The word here is "rarely". As I mentioned in my first post in this topic, local universities shun way from "in-breeding". They do not hire back the same PhD graduates whom they groomed.

You can check through all the local universities' staff list. See how many of their qualifications actually list local PhD degrees only.

Even without a scholarship, it is possible for a local Singaporean citizen to pursue a post-graduate course with government subsidy (which usually for a local, they do get it). School fees for undergraduate studies (normal honors degree) do not differ much from fees for post-graduate studies.

To reply to your last point about "allowances" and "pay": Yes there is usually a small amount of allowance for the research work you do, or if you help out as a tutor or teaching assistant.

Even with a scholarship (you pay $0 for your PhD course), this amount is usually only couple of $Ks per month. No CPF.

For a normal undergraduate with a decent degree with 2nd Uppers, one can secure an outside job with at least $2.5k upwards. For those who go into the banking industry (with a good degree), it is not surprising to see a starting pay of at least $3.5k - $5k even.

At the end of 3-4 years (the time it takes for one to get a PhD), one could already be in the $4-5k income band at the very least.

So tell me, which path would you take?

Path 1: Take up PhD and endure 4 years (you still pay a few $Ks for school fees each year) with a meagre (average) $2+k allowance per month and no CPF.

During the course of your research, if your thesis topic "cannot fly" (quite a possible outcome), you may fall back to graduating with a Masters at the end of 3 years instead. After graduating with a PhD, if you still want to take up an academic career, you have to go elsewhere because local universities will not hire you as an assistant professor.

Path 2: Get your Honors degree and whack a job outside with at least $2.5-$3k. After 4 years, you should have a decent amount of savings (plus CPF savings) with real work experience (plus point when you are ready to move on to another company).

 

[sadfcuk]

the easing on the entry requirement portion for the local, this honestly i had not a clue. but entering a full time phd program it with a local 2nd lower or below, are there any issue is securing scholarship to sponsor for the whole program? perhaps i am ignorance, but as far as i know all scholarship for post grad most are open only to 2nd upper and above. what the point of being accepted if you cannot secure a scholarship? <----This is the key issue here. MONEY. paying for a phd program is no joke even if you do it locally. no one in the right mind will do it without a scholarship unless you are born with a silver spoon.

YET we have tons of these people who graduated from china, some even without good honours are allowed to do a full time phd program under fully paid scholarship. this is the issue.

Hi vamjok. The fees for post-graduate coursework does not differ much from undergraduate fees with government subsidy. You can check that out on the universities' websites.

If you are a Singaporean, and you are eligible for post-graduate studies, you are usually eligible for the government subsidy.

 

[Catherina]

I think you folks around here need to really be aware of what is happening, instead of blindly throwing accusations here.

I am not sure of how many of you here with the unhappy sentiments have been to a local university, but the reason for why there is such a high number of foreign PhD students is not because they are depriving the local students of their rightful places.

It is because there is usually a lack of interest from local students in furthering their studies as a PhD.

In this case, naturally we are talking about a higher foreigner-to-local students ratio here.

It is not as what many of you down here say that the "foreign students are depriving the locals of their rightful PhD places".

I for one know this to be a fact.

It depends n my view are:
- Our top qualified graduates prefer to do their PhD in top Uni in the West and a ticket to be PR.
- Our 2nd upper honor students are denied the chance not because of no taker, because 80% are resevd for foreign students. These foreign students are mostly with 1st class honor especially from China where thousands are w/o jobs . This is the way the PAP underhand technic to poach top students to be Singapore citizen. These students are more than happy to take up the PhD schorlarship because they will be receiving a monthly stipend of $3000/- (Rmp 15k) much better to be a lecturer in China. They are bond free and a better chance to jump ship to the West for post doc. A good enviro n good time period to better his English Language proficiency. It also helps NTU to better her ranking status with the number of PhD students n research.

 

[Catherina]

I think you folks around here need to really be aware of what is happening, instead of blindly throwing accusations here.

I am not sure of how many of you here with the unhappy sentiments have been to a local university, but the reason for why there is such a high number of foreign PhD students is not because they are depriving the local students of their rightful places.

It is because there is usually a lack of interest from local students in furthering their studies as a PhD.

In this case, naturally we are talking about a higher foreigner-to-local students ratio here.

It is not as what many of you down here say that the "foreign students are depriving the locals of their rightful PhD places".

I for one know this to be a fact.

It depends n I do agree to an extent but my view are:
- Our top qualified graduates prefer to do their PhD in top Uni in the West and a ticket to be PR.
- Our 2nd upper honor students are denied the chance not because of no taker, because 80% are resevd for foreign students. These foreign students are mostly with 1st class honor especially from China where thousands are w/o jobs . This is the way the PAP underhand technic to poach top students to be Singapore citizen. These students are more than happy to take up the PhD schorlarship because they will be receiving a monthly stipend of $3000/- (Rmp 15k) much better to be a lecturer in China. They are bond free and a better chance to jump ship to the West for post doc. A good enviro n good time period to better his English Language proficiency. It also helps NTU to better her ranking status with the number of PhD students n research.

 

[vamjok]

bro this is the issue why i kpkb, why are those from other country able to enjoy full scholarship even though they do not even have a good honour? china university system the way they classified their degree is quite complicated to me. some of them do not even award any class of honour, just the title honour in their degree as long you finished your 4th year. yes some do classified their degree similar to ours. note here, many of those did not really got very good honours are allowed to yet study here they do not pay a single cent. YET if you are from local, if you have that kind of results you can forget about getting a scholarship. i had talk to and know a few of the grad students and when i realized the kind of degree they got into enrolling the course really shock me. why is there a double standard?

at the age of mid 20s how the heck are you going to continue the course without any $? unless you are rich but that another matters totally.

this is something really i still cannot figure out. why is there such a discrimination, the more you look into such policy the more you realized pink IC and 2nd class citizen. but i do agree about your point of not doing a PHD in local, that is another issue totally. the issue here is why is there standard that is not in the favour of the locals.

BTW local phd students a normal Astar scholarship (in science side not sure about arts) get 3k allowance, after a year. Ah neh they normally gets about 2K. now compare this to a local who wish to do the program but cannot secure a scholarship. get the picture? policy in this country are not really in favour of its citizen

 

[ginfreely]

Not sure about NTU but my working place is near NUS and I eat there quite often. I am often amazed how frequently the student in the queue infront or near me who started talking - whether on mobile phone or to another person in the queue - most of the time they are foreigners.

 

[sadfcuk]

BTW local phd students a normal Astar scholarship (in science side not sure about arts) get 3k allowance, after a year. Ah neh they normally gets about 2K. now compare this to a local who wish to do the program but cannot secure a scholarship. get the picture? policy in this country are not really in favour of its citizen

Well, a very simple explanation is that they need this differentiation to entice foreign research "talents" to uproot themselves from their countries to come over here to engage in research.

As for whether they are capable or not, that is a separate issue...

And btw, I don't really think many people care about the allowance when pursuing a PhD. It comes with no CPF at all.

To many graduates, it is better to get a real job outside. The research industry in Singapore is a gone-case career path to pick, together with many other familiar career paths that we all know of...

 

[scroobal]

The issue not to hire local PHD has nothing to do with in-breeding. It was based on quality where post grad training was concerned and the rule was set in the 70s. It is the same reason why the best and brightest of the scholars go overseas. The policy is revised every 5 years and there has been no change.

There are 4 factors behind the policy to offer more places to foreign PHD candidates one of which was something that you already highlighted - no local demand. But not for the reason that you think. Those who are good have been advised by local faculty that they will not be hired as the pre-condition is overseas PHD except for Medicine. Tne decision to advice is a policy decision and the good candidates will have to advised. 2nd reason is to replace the emigration losses. The 3rd reason is to kick start the bio-medical research industry. The 4th reason is to cross-subsidise local students which is a model that most 1st world countries operate.

The whole programme is run on a quota system no different to the quota for foreign tertiary students that was set at 20% in the 70s. The quota is much higher for post grad.

The policy is classified. I however do like the in-breeding guess. That is the first time I heard it in a public forum. Even the old man was honest when he spoke to NUS students some years back.

The word here is "rarely". As I mentioned in my first post in this topic, local universities shun way from "in-breeding". They do not hire back the same PhD graduates whom they groomed.

).

 

[Subok]

i have a feeling this is actually true while walking around the campus

The figures are not "blasphemous" those were the EXACT numbers given to me by the DIRECTOR of Housing Services NUS.

 

[Subok]

These CHINA students are PAID SGD$2'000 a month NO BOND attached until they graduate with their PhD.

Only 2 kinds will stay"

The STUPID PhD one... cause result not good enough to go overseas reputable U
The POOR PhD one... cannot afford to "migrate" to ang mo land


so we are left with STUPID and POOR PhD on our shore from our YEARS of paying them SGD$2'000 a month.

 

[Dreamer1]

These CHINA students are PAID SGD$2'000 a month NO BOND attached until they graduate with their PhD.

Only 2 kinds will stay"

The STUPID PhD one... cause result not good enough to go overseas reputable U
The POOR PhD one... cannot afford to "migrate" to ang mo land


so we are left with STUPID and POOR PhD on our shore from our YEARS of paying them SGD$2'000 a month.

PAP is sucker with our monry.

I hope PAP use their own fund which they have plenty,also from us anyway!

 

[ivebert]

chao chee bye! read this news sibeh tulan. chee bye NUS / NTU lecturers leeching on Singaporean money for the past decade. Now they realised that Singaporeans seriously outnumbered on campus so desperately trying to balance the numbers.

A whole generation of probable researchers lost out on the places. Chee bye!

Cheebye Kia

You think they purposely omit Sinkie students who want to earn a PhD?

Obviously the smart sinkies are already given scholarships after JC and all that is left are loser average sinkies.

You sure you want these loser sinkies to be Researchers????

 

[ivebert]

Agree. The opportunity cost involved in pursuing a PhD is just too high. Many grads are dying to start work. At most they go for a Masters. If PhD, you need scholarships to ease financial burden on family.

You fucking retard who did not go to NTU or NUS

PhD in NUS/NTU naturally comes with tuition waiver and a stipend depending on your ability

Don't talk cock about not having money to pay for a PhD. You have to pay $0.

Of course if you are average and have no experience, expect to pay and suffer, , just like those private school losers

 

[ivebert]

If a Phd can assure a good job I bet many Sporeans will take it up. However don't forget that Sporeans have already wasted alot of time doing the GCE A & NS.

In Canada one can enter Uni with only GCE O results. In fact I knew someone who did just that & when he returned to Spore to do his NS, he'd already gotten 2 degrees.

You fucking loser

I know you are old, retired and feeling useless.

You think Age is everything? You can have a PhD at 20 but still be a loser if you suck at research

You need ability and research flair

 

[ivebert]

For guys who have served NS, they are already 2 years behind in their personal careers/lives. To commit another 4-5 years for a PhD is simply too long. By the time they graduate with a PhD, they are already 28-29 years old.

Compared to their peers, to start earning "real money" only at this age really sets back their lives.

Not everyone is considered good enough to enter a PhD program

If a Sinkie is really that good, you can earn USD$30,000 in top USA universities as a teaching assistant and there are fellowships to top it up

But like I said, the top Sinkie brains are already poached by civil service scholarships after JC and all that is left are either average money-minded opportunists or not smart enough to engage in academic research. That's why they have to consider only NUS or NTU

Do you even consider that after you graduate, your professor salary will be much higher than those who chose to work?

 

[ivebert]

third world farmboys are not suitable for researchers, they just wanna make a living by meeting research paper deadlines, they are not intellectually curious sorts. the slumping ranking of NTU shows the poor quality of papers and projects being done by these farmboys.

You are right about those Sinkie peasants not being suitable to be a researcher.

1) They are average Sinkies at best. The top Sinkies are already offered prestigious scholarships from Civil Service or Stat Boards after A Levels

2) They come from peasant families. Do you think their loser parents will nurture them to be intellectual curious people? No, these old losers will just encourage them to go work so they can bring home income to feed them

3) Getting a PhD is the basic requirement before you can do real research. These peasant sinkies won't want to spend 4 years to do it because they are obviously myopic. A PhD will carry your career past 60 if you are good enough. Go work in a competitive industry and see if you can survive past 35. Krafty is one good example of who failed in private industry and he's driving a cab now.

 

[ivebert]

If you got Mainland Chinese Board members and lecturers .

You will bring in your own kind .

Nonsense.

NUS and NTU departments have a graduate admission committee who recommends someone to the Department Head.

Most department heads are Sinkies :oIo:

 

[sadfcuk]

Not everyone is considered good enough to enter a PhD program

If a Sinkie is really that good, you can earn USD$30,000 in top USA universities as a teaching assistant and there are fellowships to top it up

But like I said, the top Sinkie brains are already poached by civil service scholarships after JC and all that is left are either average money-minded opportunists or not smart enough to engage in academic research. That's why they have to consider only NUS or NTU

Do you even consider that after you graduate, your professor salary will be much higher than those who chose to work?

Yes of course I understand that after graduating with a PhD, the salary as a AP will be quite substantial. And I also understand that not everyone can enter a PhD program.

But like I say, for some people it is very difficult to see the future 4-5 years down the road.

If you do choose the PhD path, there is a (very real) risk that should your thesis not be able to "fly", you will end up graduating with a Masters instead.
You have to "endure" with the meagre allowance during the course of your PhD studies too.

Instead, if you choose to work directly after graduation, with a good amount of effort put into your job (and perhaps some luck), you would advance in your career all the same, maybe even better than if you chose the PhD path.

Some people like to go through the sweet part of life first, then worry about the bitter part later. Others prefer to go endure the the bitter hardships first with the sweet part coming later on. For most Singaporeans, it seems to be the former that they chose as we definitely see a lack of interest among graduates to pursue a PhD.

----------------------------------------
Same thing with being a SIA pilot, I believe the trainee allowance is only like $2.2-$2.4k per month (last I checked a couple years ago), and you have to go through the training for 6-8 (somebody can confirm?) years with this shi**y pay, until you graduate as a co-pilot. Only then do you start to draw a decent salary that makes life a lot "easier".

Some people can't live with this small amount of salary for so many years, while others look forward to the pride in graduating as a pilot years later.

If however you see a lack of pilots/PhD/whatever, you can be sure that it is something (wrong) about the career path that is not enticing graduates to sign up for... or that something needs to be done to reverse the situation.