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Who made this recession ?. - CNN

GoFlyKiteNow

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The recession was made in China
CNN
October 11, 2010|By David Frum, CNN Contributor

We all can see the responsibility of Wall Street and the U.S. mortgage market for today's global recession. Yet behind both is a more fundamental cause: As much as the products in the aisles at Wal-Mart, this recession was made in China.

China earns its living by selling to the United States. In recent years, it has sold more and more: China's exports doubled in the 1990s. In the 2000s, they doubled -- twice. And of course far and away the biggest market for Chinese goods was the United States.

Economists would expect that China's huge trade surpluses with the U.S. must sooner or later cancel themselves out. It's basic supply and demand.

1) China sells us more than it buys.

2) Therefore China accumulates dollars.

3) Therefore China spends the dollars.

4) Therefore the dollar declines relative to Chinese currency.

5) Therefore Chinese goods become more expensive.

6) Therefore Americans buy less from China and sell more.

7) Therefore the trade surplus ends. It's all beautifully self-regulating.

The trouble with the theory is that in China's case, step 3) does not happen.

To keep China's population working -- and to stop China's population from protesting -- the Chinese government must keep the exports moving. To keep the exports moving, China must keep the currency cheap. To keep the currency cheap, China manipulates its banking system so the accumulated surplus dollars never get spent.

Instead, the Chinese lent the dollars back to us. And because the Chinese had so many dollars, they lent the dollars very, very cheaply.

You got a fabulous deal on your mortgage because China's workers were prevented from spending the money they had earned.

This process accelerated through the 2000s, but it went into hyperdrive in 2005, when China's trade surplus abruptly spiked. Bigger surplus, more dollars, more lending. 2005 was the year the subprime mortgage boom began.

China's lending spree translated into an American debt binge. The debt of the U.S. nongovernmental sector surged after 2005 to levels last seen in -- uh oh -- 1929. And from the top of the roller coaster, it's a long, scary ride back to Earth.

The U.S. Federal Reserve has tried to cushion the pain of the Great Recession by cutting interest rates to zero. But those low interest rates have done an interesting thing: They have turned the tables on the Chinese.

Zero interest rates in the U.S. are pushing down the value of the U.S. dollar against every world currency. A dollar bought about 110 yen in the summer of 2008. A dollar now buys 83 yen.

The Chinese government has fiercely resisted a corresponding decline in Chinese currency. But that resistance has nasty internal effects for China.

As America prints more and more money to prevent deflation, China must (if it wants to sustain the dollar-renminbi parity) print equal money -- risking inflation. The excess cash that once triggered a housing bubble in the U.S. is now sloshing back into China, creating an even more horrifying housing bubble in China's big cities. China has been placed back where we were in 2005.

China faces two main policy options.

One would be to accept the need to stop Chinese inflation and allow its currency to rise -- accepting reduced exports and employment in China.

The other? Continue manipulating the currency to sustain Chinese exports and employment -- and accept accelerating inflation and probably an ultimate crash.

If China's finance ministers and bankers are yelling at Americans at the IMF, it is not because Americans are wastrels and spendthrifts. It is because China wants us to subject the American population to more economic pain to redress a problem the Chinese themselves have created for the world and for us.

Nuts to that. Let 'em howl.
 
"The trouble with the theory is that in China's case, step 3) does not happen."

Communist China has very low interest rate,and the net result of low interest rate is to shift income from net savers (mainly the household sector who provide most of the country’s net savings) to net borrowers that have access to bank credit (manufacturers, local, provincial and central governments, real estate developers, infrastructure investors,in summary,Government and SOEs).

This applies to our Singapore as well.

It is a form of financial repression.The government, in other words, borrows from the household sector (via the banks) at artificially low interest rates, which implies continual government debt forgiveness paid for by the household sector.,hence the word REPRESSION.

Ken of R.P. a top economist might be able to use tthis in his election bid,if he knows how to put this across to Ah Bengs,Ah Lians
 
This is on CNN? We are getting such crap there? The Americans CAN DUN BUY China goods if they do not want.

I thought the crisis is a result of the subprime crap. No one is forcing them to buy properties without credit and forcing all these subprime shit.
 
Fuck them. They could have blamed Oz for colluding with China because they sold their precious resources to make cheap Yankee goods.
 
Instead, the Chinese lent the dollars back to us. And because the Chinese had so many dollars, they lent the dollars very, very cheaply.

You got a fabulous deal on your mortgage because China's workers were prevented from spending the money they had earned.

----------------------

The translation of the above is that China maintains its price
competitiveness globally by depriving its own people of their
rightful earnings.

Making over a billion Chinese work on the cheap for the world.
Modern day Slave labor of sorts by a Commie regime ?
 
David Frum is extreme right wing of republican party. It is a CNN contributor not CNN new writer so subject to all types of bias.
 
David Frum is extreme right wing of republican party. It is a CNN contributor not CNN new writer so subject to all types of bias.

Bias or no bias. If the facts are there and we can see the results
then why bother about him being right wing etc ?

We should not shoot the messenger just because we do not like
the message. That is down right silly.
 
Bias or no bias. If the facts are there and we can see the results
then why bother about him being right wing etc ?

We should not shoot the messenger just because we do not like
the message. That is down right silly.

But sometimes we should look at the messenger and see if we can trust the message.

Like all the leftist imbeciles in this forum. Screaming out for subsidies, dishouts, minimum wage etc - bottom line is that most of them are losers.

At least when KJ spews out leftist stuff, much as I disagree with him I know he is speaking about what he sincerely thinks may be good for Singapore. When RADM (minus 6 ranks) MS Goh speaks leftism, I can't help thinking of how he has had to sell his HDB flat because he cannot afford the installments or election deposit. Ask him to come back after he has succeeded in real life lah.
 
But sometimes we should look at the messenger and see if we can trust the message.

Like all the leftist imbeciles in this forum. Screaming out for subsidies, dishouts, minimum wage etc - bottom line is that most of them are losers.

At least when KJ spews out leftist stuff, much as I disagree with him I know he is speaking about what he sincerely thinks may be good for Singapore. When RADM (minus 6 ranks) MS Goh speaks leftism, I can't help thinking of how he has had to sell his HDB flat because he cannot afford the installments or election deposit. Ask him to come back after he has succeeded in real life lah.

There is no question of Trust.
There is only verify. I mean the facts are available to check and find out
and based on which we can make logical conclusions or discuss with
others.
 
Poor Americans. Had the evil Chinese not tempted them with cheap credit, they wouldn't have bought houses that they couldn't afford in order to speculate. :D
 
Poor Americans. Had the evil Chinese not tempted them with cheap credit, they wouldn't have bought houses that they couldn't afford in order to speculate. :D

Problem is that the Chinese are now holding so much USD but it's buying less and less Yen (no PIIGS in Japan to destroy the Yen like they're gonna do the Euro).
 
David Frum is a Canadian. During his teenage years, he used to campaign for the New Democratic Party, Canada's left wing party.. If he is an extreme right wing, then he must be a disillusion with the left. His mother is the late journalist Babara Frum, who used to work for the pinko commie CBC


David Frum is extreme right wing of republican party. It is a CNN contributor not CNN new writer so subject to all types of bias.
 
Like all the leftist imbeciles in this forum. Screaming out for subsidies, dishouts, minimum wage etc - bottom line is that most of them are losers.

.



What's wrong with Sporeans wanting a piece of the pie they helped to create:confused:

We've paid so much taxes & yet the gov't is never satisfied. Just look at how wealthy the Lees & their cronies have become compared to the 'lesser mortals'. The majority of Sporeans are older, poorer & worried about loosing their jobs.
 
What's wrong with Sporeans wanting a piece of the pie they helped to create:confused:

We've paid so much taxes & yet the gov't is never satisfied. Just look at how wealthy the Lees & their cronies have become compared to the 'lesser mortals'. The majority of Sporeans are older, poorer & worried about loosing their jobs.

Oh puhleeze. You've paid almost nothing in taxes compared to all your utopian countries. To give out the subsidies you want, countries are charging 8% GST and 7% PST on top of 40% federal taxes. Do you even have a bloody clue what you are talking about?

Most of you pay zero income tax and 7% GST. 7% GST of $30k is a mere $2,100 a year. And if you're in that bracket, you have no business owning a car!
 
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Oh puhleeze. You've paid almost nothing in taxes compared to all your utopian countries. To give out the subsidies you want, countries are charging 8% GST and 7% PST on top of 40% federal taxes. Do you even have a bloody clue what you are talking about?

Most of you pay zero income tax and 7% GST. 7% GST of $30k is a mere $2,100 a year. And if you're in that bracket, you have no business owning a car!

You must understand the difference between leftists and right-wingers. Leftists believe in egalitarianism, the rich must help the poor etc. whereas right-wingers believe in the hierarchy of societies, everyone (including the poor) deserves the right to accumulate and hoard the wealth that he/she earns. No matter how low the tax rate is for the poor, leftists will always clamour for the rich to be poorer and the poor to be richer just to attain some kind of utopian equality, like the sort you see in an ant colony. :rolleyes:
 
Oh puhleeze. You've paid almost nothing in taxes compared to all your utopian countries. To give out the subsidies you want, countries are charging 8% GST and 7% PST on top of 40% federal taxes. Do you even have a bloody clue what you are talking about?

Most of you pay zero income tax and 7% GST. 7% GST of $30k is a mere $2,100 a year. And if you're in that bracket, you have no business owning a car!


I've lived in Canada & although there is gst, there was no PST in the province I was staying in. In Spore they charge gst on everything including food & medication. In Canada there's no gst charged for food , medicine, childrens clothing, student supplies,...

You also do not have COE, ERP, radio/TV licence fees, town council fees,. water conservancy fees, etc... Many of which are hidden taxes that goes to the PAP. Is this how they can afford to pay themselves millions :confused:

Don't know about you but I've had to pay income tax in Spore :mad: The PAP MP makes so much from Spore taxpayers & yet they don't pay their fair share. Can you imagine LKY receiving millions & millions of $$$, unlimited healthcare, other perks & bonuses & yet pays zero in taxes:eek:

In Canada even the poor receive affordable health care. Whereas in Spore they wont even allow one to use one's own medicare funds. If you ask Canadians the majority do not begrudge healthcare to the poor. Canadians look after their own unlike the PAP which exploits their citizens.

As for owning a car, I spent extra $$$ getting a home closer to town so that I can do without one. I find it laughable that when life is suppose to be so good in Spore & yet majority can't afford a car like those living in LOS, Malaysia, Batam, Jkt.

Even our CPF is being denied to us. It's turning out to be another form of taxation.

Plenty of Sporeans know what's going on, many have voted with their feet. Even those still around have plans to eventually leave.
 
You must understand the difference between leftists and right-wingers. Leftists believe in egalitarianism, the rich must help the poor etc. whereas right-wingers believe in the hierarchy of societies, everyone (including the poor) deserves the right to accumulate and hoard the wealth that he/she earns.


I don't see myself as a leftist, just a "lesse mortal" :)

LKY has abused the "system" to enrich himself. In some countries whether your a leftist or rightist he would be called a crook :rolleyes:
 
Unfortunately, that's what you get in a fascist right-wing state where the people are nothing more than sacrificial lamb for the "greater good". In a libertarian right-wing state (or Utopia, as I call it), whatever you earn is yours to spend. The government has neither the right to coerce you into relinquishing an arbitrary portion of your wealth to them nor the right to monopolize the country's industries not through the volition of consumers in a free market but through physical might. We may not be able to eradicate coercion altogether with the abolition of government but we shouldn't acquiesce meekly to it either. Anarchy isn't the synonym for chaos. It's the violent who commit violence, not the ungoverned. Don't let the gahmen scare you into thinking that pandemonium will ensue once there's bo ceng hu.
 
I don't see myself as a leftist, just a "lesse mortal" :)

LKY has abused the "system" to enrich himself. In some countries whether your a leftist or rightist he would be called a crook :rolleyes:

He may be a crook but that doesn't vindicate your position that you've paid "taxes" and so you should deserve certain entitlements. How much taxes did you pay? Do you know Sinkieland's tax to GDP percentage? It's 13%, amongst the lowest in the world. I'm in agreement with you that Sinkies have been exploited through various stealth taxes but none of which could sustain the welfare system that many well-travelled Sinkies clamour for. The western welfare model is predicated on thievery. If you think it's morally justified to steal from the rich, by all means leave for those countries.
 
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