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$1B Church! Oh My GOD!

angry_one

Alfrescian
Loyal
Oh i'm sure their followers are really devoted, to give the church this amt of money. As to whether they have any rationality left, is another issue.

Dammit should have started my own church. It will have pop singers, bands, sex shows, orgies..... too bad most friends know i'm atheist and will call my bluff.

The sanctity of a place of worship does not depend on its size but the level of devotion of its followers.
 

kakowi

Alfrescian
Loyal
the development of the Christian faith has largely mirrored that of the Christians in the US with their mega star pastors and mega churches.

while I can think of non Christians feeling a bit stunned by the scale of the latest development, I wonder about the feelings of other Christians who belongs to smaller churches. any comments?

btw, this development, impressive as it is, will distract the Rock for at least ten years.

Most christians, including those from within NCC, those from other mega-churches and those from other churches, prefer not to say anything.

A large number of them are praying for these mega-churches that if there is any fallout that the faith of the innocent will be preserved.
 

myjohnson

Alfrescian
Loyal
Lord have mercy! Please not our own Jim Bakker, Tammy Faye, Jessica Hahn and Heritage Park on our shores ever!
 

zack123

Alfrescian
Loyal
Most christians, including those from within NCC, those from other mega-churches and those from other churches, prefer not to say anything.

A large number of them are praying for these mega-churches that if there is any fallout that the faith of the innocent will be preserved.

is there any more innocent people here?
 

kakowi

Alfrescian
Loyal
These are facts, or at least at the time of this writing, believed to be facts:

(1) New Creation Church (NCC) - a charity registered under the Charities Act. Thus under oversight of the Commissioner of Charities.

(2) Governance within the NCC - Joseph Prince, the CEO of the NCC was/is also the Chairman of the Finance Committee.

The Commissioner of Charities in the wake of TT Durai would prefer a segregation of duties.

Such segregation is a strong component of a process that keeps the CEO honest.

NCC was strongly against such segregation. Letters to the press then and letters to the press now on this issue and the current Commissioner of Charities ruling, was done by Matthew Kang.

Matthew Kang is currently one of the shareholders of Rock Productions together with Joseph Prince.​


(3) Rock Productions is not a charity. It is a commercial company. As the first post of this thread shows, there are 4 named shareholders. Together they run the entire investment portfolio of the NCC.

As Rock Productions is a company, funds transfer and ownership between the charity and the company should be a matter of concern for NCC churchgoers.

As Joseph Prince, Matthew Kang are key members of the Finance Committee AND shareholders of Rock Productions, decisions made to pass funds from the NCC to the company owned by them should be by independent people.

But the Commissioner of Churches felt that a paper policy on 'conflicts of interests' is sufficient.

How that paper on conflicts of interests can be reconciled against funds being passed out of a charity which has strict laws to a commercial company outside of the church's control is something that the Commissioner of Charities understands.

(3) Joseph Prince's sermons are sold under Joseph Prince's Resources. This is again something outside of NCC. It is a commercial entreprise. Also at one time, within his sermons, every few minutes, he will exhort people to buy his dvds. It is not known if he is still doing it.

And of course, Rock Productions is contributing to economic growth through their hugh property investments.



Doubtless, rationale for the above will be given. A charity is not allowed to engage in business. Therefore a business arm is needed. If there are segregation of roles, some people in the Finance Committee will not give their approval or they may want the governance of the business arm to come under strict and independent review. And also there are the issues of continuity of assets and legal ownership of assets.

In the final analysis, these are issues more relevant to the contributing members of NCC. Whatever their values, understanding, it is their choice and their responsibility and stewardship.

As christians, we are commanded to be discerning. We are also commanded not to judge. With facts in hand, we make our choices with our discernment. That is the best we can do in terms of responsible stewardship.
 
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myjohnson

Alfrescian
Loyal
Hurry, Hurry, Come in to the greatest show on earth! Only beautiful people need apply. Come and bask in refracted glory.
 

Jah_rastafar_I

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
These are facts, or at least at the time of this writing, believed to be facts:

(1) New Creation Church (NCC) - a charity registered under the Charities Act. Thus under oversight of the Commissioner of Charities.

(2) Governance within the NCC - Joseph Prince, the CEO of the NCC was/is also the Chairman of the Finance Committee.

The Commissioner of Charities in the wake of TT Durai would prefer a segregation of duties.

Such segregation is a strong component of a process that keeps the CEO honest.

NCC was strongly against such segregation. Letters to the press then and letters to the press now on this issue and the current Commissioner of Charities ruling, was done by Matthew Kang.

Matthew Kang is currently one of the shareholders of Rock Productions together with Joseph Prince.​


(3) Rock Productions is not a charity. It is a commercial company. As the first post of this thread shows, there are 4 named shareholders. Together they run the entire investment portfolio of the NCC.

As Rock Productions is a company, funds transfer and ownership between the charity and the company should be a matter of concern for NCC churchgoers.

As Joseph Prince, Matthew Kang are key members of the Finance Committee AND shareholders of Rock Productions, decisions made to pass funds from the NCC to the company owned by them should be by independent people.

But the Commissioner of Churches felt that a paper policy on 'conflicts of interests' is sufficient.

How that paper on conflicts of interests can be reconciled against funds being passed out of a charity which has strict laws to a commercial company outside of the church's control is something that the Commissioner of Charities understands.

(3) Joseph Prince's sermons are sold under Joseph Prince's Resources. This is again something outside of NCC. It is a commercial entreprise. Also at one time, within his sermons, every few minutes, he will exhort people to buy his dvds. It is not known if he is still doing it.

And of course, Rock Productions is contributing to economic growth through their hugh property investments.



Doubtless, rationale for the above will be given. A charity is not allowed to engage in business. Therefore a business arm is needed. If there are segregation of roles, some people in the Finance Committee will not give their approval or they may want the governance of the business arm to come under strict and independent review. And also there are the issues of continuity of assets and legal ownership of assets.

In the final analysis, these are issues more relevant to the contributing members of NCC. Whatever their values, understanding, it is their choice and their responsibility and stewardship.

As christians, we are commanded to be discerning. We are also commanded not to judge. With facts in hand, we make our choices with our discernment. That is the best we can do in terms of responsible stewardship.


NCC is not like CHC. I think prince and the ppl other there learnt how not to be like CHC?????


In this case less ppl crtisize ncc compared to chc and at 16k church members it has less than CHC but in the papers they had more funds.
 

kakowi

Alfrescian
Loyal
Many people do not seem to be aware that Pastor Kong voluntarily removed himself from the Finance Committee once the Commissioner of Charities made that requirement.

Joseph Prince on the other hand, insisted that he should remain at the helm of the Finance Committee in addition to the CEO role in the NCC.

In the end, the Commissioner of Charities gave in as shown in their current ruling.
 

JohnTT

Alfrescian
Loyal
I should have been a pastor. Imagine you don't have to work & yet you are able to derive monthly income from church members (10% if I am not wrong). Moreover, you can get married too & have sex (compared to monks). You can also dress well. The last time I went for a church member wedding, all the church staff were wearing Armani suits. The chicks are also damn solid too! No horse run, man!
 

myjohnson

Alfrescian
Loyal
I should have been a pastor. Imagine you don't have to work & yet you are able to derive monthly income from church members (10% if I am not wrong). Moreover, you can get married too & have sex (compared to monks). You can also dress well. The last time I went for a church member wedding, all the church staff were wearing Armani suits. The chicks are also damn solid too! No horse run, man!

Were there any peasants around ? Was any Japanese make family car allowed to be parked next to the ferraris, porshes and maseratis?
 

pia

Alfrescian
Loyal
Were there any peasants around ? Was any Japanese make family car allowed to be parked next to the ferraris, porshes and maseratis?

There are probably 1000 of these to each Ferrari/Porsche/Maserati. The poor stupid blokes are the ones giving their hard-earned money blindly to the few rich ones. :mad:
 

TeeKee

Alfrescian
Loyal
ST_IMAGES_FIOROCK-HZN.jpg

structure not veri stable leh!

methink it will collapse even with a 5 on the Richter scale.
 

Cestbon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
i never know they are so rich......

Of course they are rich. Member are required/compulsary to make min 3% monthly salary/income donation to the Church. Can opt for GIRO payment also mean every month Church have fix income.
If the Church have 50,000 member and average income is $3K. Mean each month the Church will have half million fix income that not inculded extra donation and return investment from their fund.
Better donnate money to Greenpeace or WHO. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
 
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