PRC construction worker gets SG citizen

[tonychat]

WTF, after spewing so much crap, you still can't answer my question and pick a stand? Has or has not the government handled the immigration issue with proper care? This is a yes/no question, no need to go beating about the bush. I just want to know where you stand. I have already stated my opinion but I guess you are just a typical PAP sycophant who steers the ship wherever the wind blows, just like your master LKY.

A sinkie is not supposed to answer your questions directly and courageously and pick a stand with balls.

 

[yuelao]

A sinkie is not supposed to answer your questions directly and courageously and pick a stand with balls.

This character is a PAPpy supporter in disguise on this forum. I wouldn't have minded if he simply states that he supports the immigration policy wholeheartedly.

 

[Char_Azn]

I'm sure there are many who are interested in your grandfathers achievements but he's just another lesser mortal.

LKY on the other hand is the founder of Spore, isn't that why he's paying himself, his sons, his daugther, his daughter-in-law,.......millions

As the self proclaimed founder of Spore people hold him responsible. You can't have a dictorship without someone at the top.

I do not care about LKY and he isn't even included in my comments about Grandpa. I just stated that my Grandfather's circumstances is similar if not the same as the guy who came from China. He came from China. worked at a low paid job, taught himself to read and write and managed to get a job as a clerk to support the family. This guy came from China as a low paid FT, worked his way up to a contractor and now own his own stall. He took up citizenship and his family stayed and now the son is doing NS. VERY SIMILAR TO MY GRANDFATHER AND DAD's situation. Guess what? Pple in here came in and flamed me and for what? Comparing Apples with Apples. Just because I do not curse and swear at LKY all day every day doesn't mean I deserve flaming. And this circumstances of that person has little if any to do with LKY in the first place. The article is another sad pathetic attempt to flame LKY. U want to flame him take something he said recently to Japan, China, plenty of things to talk about. However I think U should leave such families alone.

 

[tonychat]

This character is a PAPpy supporter in disguise on this forum. I wouldn't have minded if he simply states that he supports the immigration policy wholeheartedly.

A coward is always a coward. You can see it from the post that he writes. A supporter? Maybe one of them? who knows, get paid to do the job of posting.

 

[Char_Azn]

A sinkie is not supposed to answer your questions directly and courageously and pick a stand with balls.

I'm not answering him directly because that idiot failed to understand the meaning of the word MIGRATION and basic mathematics

He claimed that

Do you know how the stats are obtained? Do you know that Australia counts their own citizens in the stats as well. They called it Permanent and Long-Term arrivals (PLT). Many of their citizens go overseas for their Overseas Experience (OE) and for the past couple of years, many have returned due to poor economic conditions elsewhere.

He doesn't realize that when the same person goes off and is considered as a migrant the numbers of his home country will go down. So if he migrates back to his home country, the numbers doesn't magically increase to extra 1

e.g. Town A with a population of 10 and 1 moves to town B for his so called OE. The census in Town A will take away 1 and now they have 9. In this case the migration rate is -1(yes there is negative if more pple move out then in) When that one guy completed his tour and migrates back to his own country, it goes back to 10. Migration rate = +1

U cannot ignore the fact that someone has left the country and move to another place without recording it officially. If U do it as what the joker claimed, then Australia will magically have a lot of pple appearing out of nowhere on paper because they are counting the same person more then once. Net Migration means adding the number of pple coming in and subtracting the number of pple going out. It doesnt matter where he or she comes from

The fact that Australia as shown in the article has a higher migration rate then us simply means that they accept more FTs then us, there is no ifs and buts about this. He is too stupid to conprehend this hence whatever I try to argue will not get through. I can't be bothered to waste my time typing away if that is the case

And no I am not a PAP supporter. Funny how no one ever calls me an opposition support when I have something bad to say about PAP but everyone calls me a PAP supporter when I have nothing bad to say about them. Hell I dun even need to praise them or anything, all I need to do is not swear at them and I'm automatically a PAP dog. U guys needs to get your brains checked

 

[yuelao]

e.g. Town A with a population of 10 and 1 moves to town B for his so called OE. The census in Town A will take away 1 and now they have 9. In this case the migration rate is -1(yes there is negative if more pple move out then in) When that one guy completed his tour and migrates back to his own country, it goes back to 10. Migration rate = +1

U cannot ignore the fact that someone has left the country and move to another place without recording it officially. If U do it as what the joker claimed, then Australia will magically have a lot of pple appearing out of nowhere on paper because they are counting the same person more then once. Net Migration means adding the number of pple coming in and subtracting the number of pple going out. It doesnt matter where he or she comes from

Please stop showing your stupidity. Permanent and Long-term arrivals/departures simply means the number of people leaving and coming into the country on a permanent basis, it does not take into consideration the nationality of the people.

For example, if every year, 100 Aussies leave and 50 Aussies return to the country, the net PLT number is -50 for that year. During a recession overseas (incidentally, Oz did not go into recession), there may be a lot more Aussies returning than leaving. For example, the number leaving may drop to 50 but the number returning from overseas increases to 100. Suddenly, for that year, you get a net number of +50, as compared to -50 for many past years. The numbers are based on an annual basis, not as an average over a number of years, you fool.

In case you don't know, they have departure/arrival forms that ask you where you intend to reside for the next 12 months. This provides them with the stats on the number leaving and arriving permanently. Sinkieland doesn't bother to ask its citizens to fill any forms. You are a real frog in a well.

 

[Char_Azn]

Please stop showing your stupidity. Permanent and Long-term arrivals/departures simply means the number of people leaving and coming into the country on a permanent basis, it does not take into consideration the nationality of the people.

For example, if every year, 100 Aussies leave and 50 Aussies return to the country, the net PLT number is -50 for that year. During a recession, there may be a lot more Aussies returning than leaving. For example, the number leaving may drop to 50 but the number returning from overseas increases to 100. Suddenly, for that year, you get a net number of +50, as compared to -50 for many past years. The numbers are based on an annual basis, not as an average over a number of years, you fool.

In case you don't know, they have departure forms that ask you where you intend to reside for the next 12 months. This provides them with the stats on the number leaving permanently.

And can U explain why for some reason U only apply this rule to the Aussies and not in SG? U do realize that we also have a lot of pple working and studying abroad. Seems very bias if U ask me.

I'm assuming you are right, that Australia's migration rate is very high this year because it has a lot of pple coming home due to the recession(it's numbers are pretty high last year too btw).

Meaning: During non recession years, Australia have the same number of pple moving out(unless of coz, U want to start telling me there are magic pple appearing out of nowhere)

I don't think U will disagree with that

However

Australia have NEVER had a year where their net migration is in the negatives. Which means they allow in a lot of FTs during non recession years to keep their migration rate in the positive. In the end it still comes back to the same thing, the thing I was trying to state from the very beginning, Australia is also very pro-FT!!!!

Definition of Net Migration Rate -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_migration_rate

 

[yuelao]

And can U explain why for some reason U only apply this rule to the Aussies and not in SG? U do realize that we also have a lot of pple working and studying abroad. Seems very bias if U ask me.

I'm assuming you are right, that Australia's migration rate is very high this year because it has a lot of pple coming home due to the recession(it's numbers are pretty high last year too btw).

Meaning: During non recession years, Australia have the same number of pple moving out(unless of coz, U want to start telling me there are magic pple appearing out of nowhere)

I don't think U will disagree with that

However

Australia have NEVER had a year where their net migration is in the negatives. Which means they allow in a lot of FTs during non recession years to keep their migration rate in the positive. In the end it still comes back to the same thing, the thing I was trying to state from the very beginning, Australia is also very pro-FT!!!!

Definition of Net Migration Rate -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_migration_rate

Hey, I did not say Australia does not have high immigration, I am just saying that this year's rate may be much higher than previous years due to the global recession.

I will ask you one final time where you stand on PAP's immigration policy. I have wasted too much of my life in responding to you and you are welcome to feel likewise.

It is easy, just say in general, do you or do you not agree with the immgration policy. Sure, you may like or dislike only certain parts of the policy but surely, you must have an opinion about whether the policy is beneficial to you or not. Please don't bring up your grandfather's case again as that was before Sinkieland can implement its own policy and the inhabitants at that time had no say.

Do you or do you not agree with how the government is handling the immigration issue? Simple question really, I did not even ask you to go into details of explaining your answer but I would be most happy if you wish to do so. If you are indifferent to the policy, just say so and leave the bickering to others.

 

[tonychat]

Do you or do you not agree with how the government is handling the immigration issue? Simple question really, I did not even ask you to go into details of explaining your answer but I would be most happy if you wish to do so. If you are indifferent to the policy, just say so and leave the bickering to others.

Let's see how he answer.

I take the liberty to enlarge it in case he got a sudden occurrence of myopia.

 

[Char_Azn]

As long as we're on the same frequency that Australia is Pro FT like SG if not more so, that's fine with me.

It'll be nice if you stop throwing vulgarities at me when asking simple questions. I don't think most pple appreciate anyone calling me to go fuck spider and also like I don't appreciate anyone who address their fellow countrymen using derogatory terms like Sinkie or Sinkieland. SG is fine why is it so freaking hard for someone not to insult something while typing. I don't have a problem if U want to insult LKY, that's between U and him, but insulting the entire country is something else altogether. I'd appreciate if U show some respect to yourself and others and use words that doesn't condemn everyone when we continue this conversation

With regards to whether I agree with what the government's immigration policy, as far as PRs status are concern, no. Trying to attract Citizens and FTs(real talent like giving scholarships to Foreigners), Yes.

Quite frankly, the country is build on migrants and still is, there is no way we can change due to the size, population and birthrate of the country. We need new pple coming in. The world has globalized and pple are moving everywhere. Unfortunately, none of the pple here seem to realize this. Countries are basically competing with one another to get talented pple. We need to ensure that we have a group of talented pple who are willing to stay and at the same time dig the talents of other nations to keep ahead. It is one reason why the scholarships to foreign students are important.

As for the way PRs are being treated. No we are too easy on them. I have no problem with the liberalization of issuing PR status to some pple. However, we should only approach this from the point of view that they will want to switch to citizenship some time in the future. If they decide not to, we should ask them to F off.

I think we should create a 2 tier PR system. New PRs and PRs who refuse to turn citizen. New PRs will enjoy what the current PRs are enjoying. The 2nd tier of PRs probably after spending 5-8 yrs here will have to turn citizen if not the PR status will be downgraded and the only privilege they enjoy will be to be able to stay on a permanent basis however the rest will be the same as Foreigners.

As for how government is handling immigrants, I'm assuming its the integration of new immigrants to SG. I think they are doing what they can. If we look at examples of other countries, Australia, NZ, US whatever the government tries to do to integrate a group into the local society, its never enough. There will always be resentment from the local population and there will always be differences between ourselves and new citizen. However I must state that as far as I can tell, SG government is doing a lot more then most other governments to integrate new citizens into our society. That however may simply be due to the fact that we have so many freaking FTs!!!

 

[yuelao]

Let's see how he answer.

I take the liberty to enlarge it in case he got a sudden occurrence of myopia.

Just read his long-winded reply below, I reproduce the entire text in case he tries to change it later. He is still not answering the question directly.

He can only tell you he agree with this part and disagree with that part. But when you ask him, does he agree or disagree when taking the policy implementation as a whole, he can't tell you because he is a PAPpy supporter at heart. Unfortunately, in Sinkieland, his approach will not work because the government does not truly consult with the people before deciding on policy implementations unlike in other first-world countries. This means that it is always with hindsight that PAP realises that they have overdone things and need to do a re-think, u-turn or whatever. By that time, irreparable damage would have been done.

I will stop replying to his posts from now on as he has shown himself as a two-headed snake who can't answer a direct question, I even allowed him the choice of being neutral on the issue but he is very evasive. I will leave it to others to question him on exactly how is the policy working in attracting good quality immigrants who really make this place their home. He hasn't even considered the costs of the policy in order to just attract those few individuals. Whether that is a smart approach, only time will tell.

ps. I like the term Sinkieland as it rhymes with Disneyland, I think someone once said it is Disneyland with the death penalty.

As long as we're on the same frequency that Australia is Pro FT like SG if not more so, that's fine with me.

It'll be nice if you stop throwing vulgarities at me when asking simple questions. I don't think most pple appreciate anyone calling me to go fuck spider and also like I don't appreciate anyone who address their fellow countrymen using derogatory terms like Sinkie or Sinkieland. SG is fine why is it so freaking hard for someone not to insult something while typing. I don't have a problem if U want to insult LKY, that's between U and him, but insulting the entire country is something else altogether. I'd appreciate if U show some respect to yourself and others and use words that doesn't condemn everyone when we continue this conversation

With regards to whether I agree with what the government's immigration policy, as far as PRs status are concern, no. Trying to attract Citizens and FTs(real talent like giving scholarships to Foreigners), Yes.

Quite frankly, the country is build on migrants and still is, there is no way we can change due to the size, population and birthrate of the country. We need new pple coming in. The world has globalized and pple are moving everywhere. Unfortunately, none of the pple here seem to realize this. Countries are basically competing with one another to get talented pple. We need to ensure that we have a group of talented pple who are willing to stay and at the same time dig the talents of other nations to keep ahead. It is one reason why the scholarships to foreign students are important.

As for the way PRs are being treated. No we are too easy on them. I have no problem with the liberalization of issuing PR status to some pple. However, we should only approach this from the point of view that they will want to switch to citizenship some time in the future. If they decide not to, we should ask them to F off.

I think we should create a 2 tier PR system. New PRs and PRs who refuse to turn citizen. New PRs will enjoy what the current PRs are enjoying. The 2nd tier of PRs probably after spending 5-8 yrs here will have to turn citizen if not the PR status will be downgraded and the only privilege they enjoy will be to be able to stay on a permanent basis however the rest will be the same as Foreigners.

As for how government is handling immigrants, I'm assuming its the integration of new immigrants to SG. I think they are doing what they can. If we look at examples of other countries, Australia, NZ, US whatever the government tries to do to integrate a group into the local society, its never enough. There will always be resentment from the local population and there will always be differences between ourselves and new citizen. However I must state that as far as I can tell, SG government is doing a lot more then most other governments to integrate new citizens into our society. That however may simply be due to the fact that we have so many freaking FTs!!!

 

[tonychat]

Mr Yuelao, it shows that my sinkie behavior analysis is totally correct.

I suggest that you refrain from getting into high quality and serious discussion with sinkies. How can you be serious with a bunch that is most willing to bend down and open their hole wider for their sinkie govt even after numerous times of betrayal and ass screwing. Some even turn around , smile and thank them for the screw and ask if they are screwing them comfortably. I totally give up and takes my hats off them.

He can only tell you he agree with this part and disagree with that part. But when you ask him, does he agree or disagree when taking the policy implementation as a whole, he can't tell you because he is a PAPpy supporter at heart. Unfortunately, in Sinkieland, his approach will not work because the government does not truly consult with the people before deciding on policy implementations unlike in other first-world countries. This means that it is always with hindsight that PAP realises that they have overdone things and need to do a re-think, u-turn or whatever. By that time, irreparable damage would have been done.

I will stop replying to his posts from now on as he has shown himself as a two-headed snake who can't answer a direct question, I even allowed him the choice of being neutral on the issue but he is very evasive. I will leave it to others to question him on exactly how is the policy working in attracting good quality immigrants who really make this place their home. He hasn't even considered the costs of the policy in order to just attract those few individuals. Whether that is a smart approach, only time will tell.

ps. I like the term Sinkieland as it rhymes with Disneyland, I think someone once said it is Disneyland with the death penalty.

 

[Char_Azn]

Serious discussion? How serious can a discussion from you start and end your post with derogatory words and vulgarities. U ask for my opinion, I give U my opinion. What happens? Instead of discussion or debating about my stand, I get flamed and get called a PAP dog? Why, it's simply because I did not condemn the government. The fact is it's my opinion, do I agree with the government's immigration policy, Yes and No. It's a very general question with many points to think about. Everyone should have an opinion on what they agree with and what they do not agree with. If you cannot see it at the simplest form. Topics like Brain Drain/Gain, population control, economy are all directly linked to immigration.

Its not a simple case of Immigration bad, not allowing pple in is good. If that was the case, US which is the top destination for most migrants would have stopped accepting new immigrants by now.

As I've pointed out earlier, Australia which is the top destination for most Singaporeans migrating abroad is also just as FT friendly if not more so then SG. If it was that bad, they would have stopped it. The social problems that we are facing now, is just as bad if not more so in Australia. Anyone of U ever have to stay an extended period working in Australia? I did. If you had too you will realize that FT bashing is also top of many Australian's list of things to do. There is also constant discussion in the Australian Parliament on dealing with and integrating the new migrants to the general population. Its not just an SG problem, its a global issue.

Brain drain/gain is also a serious issue which Migration brings. Due to globalization, no country in the world right now can really afford to stop migration. There is competition for Talent all over the world. If we dun get them, someone else will and if we do not retent our own pple, someone else will get them. Like it or not, Human resource is a commodity in the eyes of all country's government. Most in here do not like it but its there whether U like it or not

Brain Drain -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_drain

But No I'm the one who doesn't want to have a serious discussion just because I do not flame the government all day everyday. I just need to be a Yes man and agree with all the bad things that everyone in here seem hellbent on doing. So much for having serious discussion. Everyone agreeing on the same thing definitely makes for good discussion material. Debating teams should from now all argue for the same sides since debate on a topic from different angles makes for bad discussion. I'm the odd one out and deserves to get flamed :oIo::oIo: