Anti-Mandatory Death Penalty

[scroobal]

Hard for a leopard to change its spots.

Maybe your reservations about TOC were right on the money after all.

 

[scroobal]

Yes, Vui Kong did not complete his appeal process and all avenues were not exhausted as Vui Kong himself chose not to pursue. Any lawyer fresh out of law school would have got the same result. Ravi to his credit managed to persuade Vui Kong to re-consider.

Mr Goh Sir

In my opinion the reason for the unprecedented move on the part of the courts, not Ravi's brilliance if you can call it that!

Kong Chan Tarng

 

[scroobal]

Excellent observation. Most people tend to follow what is fashionable but have no clue the basis of their argument.

It should be noted that the trial judge prior to the commencement of the trial called the prosecution and defence to his chambers and asked the prosecution to ask AG to reconsider the charge as it involved the mandatory death sentence with a view of preferring a lesser charge, which has happenned on a number of occasions before. The reason cited by the Judge was his youth. After re-consideration, AG agreed to stick to the original charge.

Obviously Vui Kong's history has more darker side than publicly available.

interestingly, advocates against the death penalty tend to portray the person as a "good person" at birth and had trafficked drugs due to poverty or bad company. it seems like even family members couldnt have stop them, leaving only the law to prosecute them and in sinkie's case, death

 

[ThePlen]

thank u scroobal.

in Vui Kong's case, i believe it means to go thru the motion with the appeal even though the death sentence is inevitable. Ravi tried very hard to first get to meet with Vui Kong before managing to change his mind.

 

[Communist]

Excellent observation. Most people tend to follow what is fashionable but have no clue the basis of their argument.

It wasn't a first time, got caught situation. He had done it successfully five or six times according to court transcripts. And he would had gone on to ever bigger deals if he wasn't stopped in his tracks. Show him sympathy then!

 

[scroobal]

I am sure Ravi would have explained to Vui Kong not to raise his hopes. I was taken aback by the DPP objecting to it.

Unfortunately there are many in the Net that are claiming that the stay of execution is based on some material evidence previously not known or that it involved extraordinary legal skills.

I have no doubt that in 10 to 15 years time, when the older generation are no longer a factor that the death penalty for trafficking will be done away with until maybe the next surge in drug addiction.

thank u scroobal.

in Vui Kong's case, i believe it means to go thru the motion with the appeal even though the death sentence is inevitable. Ravi tried very hard to first get to meet with Vui Kong before managing to change his mind.

 

[Communist]

Unfortunately there are many in the Net that are claiming that the stay of execution is based on some material evidence previously not known or that it involved extraordinary legal skills.

That's right. Check out the dorks over in TOC!

 

[scroobal]

Typically those facing the death sentence, the investigation papers go thru a level of investigation and scrutiny that is quite thorough as someone's life is at stake. Its involves 2 ministries and 2 departments. Discretion is usually exercised here. There are cases that are downgraded and there are cases that are not prosecuted but go in for detention without trial at Moon Crescent.

Years ago, one of HK's Drug mastermind that did not touch the stuff himself but used mules was lured to Singapore. When his private yatch entered Singapore's waters, he was picked up and detained without trial in moon crescent.

It wasn't a first time, got caught situation. He had done it successfully five or six times according to court transcripts. And he would had gone on to ever bigger deals if he wasn't stopped in his tracks. Show him sympathy then!

 

[leetahbar]

And Prata man will never pardon death row.

prataman's job is to spin out pratas and sells for million$. compa$$ion for death row loser mean$ $topping organ$ harve$ting which could co$t million$ lo$t.

 

[Communist]

Typically those facing the death sentence, the investigation papers go thru a level of investigation and scrutiny that is quite thorough as someone's life is at stake. Its involves 2 ministries and 2 departments. Discretion is usually exercised here. There are cases that are downgraded and there are cases that are not prosecuted but go in for detention without trial at Moon Crescent.

Years ago, one of HK's Drug mastermind that did not touch the stuff himself but used mules was lured to Singapore. When his private yatch entered Singapore's waters, he was picked up and detained without trial in moon crescent.

And there is a case that proves the authorities are not afraid to face the fact that they are not infallible. Fragmentary recollection, it involved the acquittal of two men who were going to the gallows for the murder of a coffee shop owner who was murdered in a robbery. Perhaps you can offer the details.

 

[leetahbar]

I am against MANDATORY sentences in whatever criminal law as it robs the very much needed discretion from the judge in carrying out his duty.

Justice must be made from the balance between cold logic and human circumstantial considerations. It would be very de-humanizing if everything just goes by the book and rule without any inputs of human feelings. There will be no contradictions here if the change is made at the way we create our law.

Goh Meng Seng

Ah seng, actually this trial is quite interesting especially handled by ravi who is linked to SDP who your ardent troll of a fan was trying to exploit to upgrade her notoriety.

if ravi isn't linked with SDP, this case won't be so highlighted.

reading between the highlight and the limelight, SDP is once again trying to exploit another heartlander situation.

the law has already stated anyone convicted of smuggling 15g heroin faces the mandatory death penalty. the condemned drug trafficker smuggled 42.27g.

is SDP now trying to endorse drug smuggling beside adultery? do they really think they are ABOVE the law and that the law must be bent towards their fancy?

 

[Communist]

Ah seng, actually this trial is quite interesting especially handled by ravi who is linked to SDP who your ardent troll of a fan was trying to exploit to upgrade her notoriety.

if ravi isn't linked with SDP, this case won't be so highlighted.

reading between the highlight and the limelight, SDP is once again trying to exploit another heartlander situation.

the law has already stated anyone convicted of smuggling 15g heroin faces the mandatory death penalty. the condemned drug trafficker smuggled 42.27g.

is SDP now trying to endorse drug smuggling beside adultery? do they really think they are ABOVE the law and that the law must be bent towards their fancy?

[COLOR="_______"]Only you can lead all debates to your own personal agenda, Bob Sim Kheng Hwee of Blk 171 Mei Ling Street![/COLOR]

 

[scroobal]

I think that you are referring to the case of one man who was charged for the murder of a coffeeshop owner. The Police inspector who was the IO of the case got the sack for incompetence. Apparently the real culprit was in Queenstown Remand for another case revealed it to the inmate who then conveyed it to the defence counsel. I think JBJ was also involved to some extent.

If the real culprit had not spoken , not sure what the fate of the wrong person would have been.

Fragmentary recollection, it involved the acquittal of two men who were going to the gallows for the murder of a coffee shop owner who was murdered in a robbery. Perhaps you can offer the details.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Human beings are not infallible. Mistakes are made here and there but some mistakes cannot be reversed or rectified like death penalty. Thus I think the discretion should be given to the judge to make all valid considerations and mandatory nature of any sentencing should be removed or minimized.

Goh Meng Seng

I think that you are referring to the case of one man who was charged for the murder of a coffeeshop owner. The Police inspector who was the IO of the case got the sack for incompetence. Apparently the real culprit was in Queenstown Remand for another case revealed it to the inmate who then conveyed it to the defence counsel. I think JBJ was also involved to some extent.

If the real culprit had not spoken , not sure what the fate of the wrong person would have been.

 

[scroobal]

If discretion is allowed, the likely consequence is that the person who can afford the best lawyer is likely to get a lighter sentence. Thats the same reason why jury trials are highly suspectible to good and articulate lawyers. Good and articulate lawyers are expensive.

The better way is to remove the death penalty altogether and lock them up for long periods. The consequence is that deterrent effect is lost as seen in the pre-death sentence era where 20 years imprisonment failed to deter the problem and it grew.

What then, since humans make mistake. Its has always been difficult at the best of times.

Human beings are not infallible. Mistakes are made here and there but some mistakes cannot be reversed or rectified like death penalty. Thus I think the discretion should be given to the judge to make all valid considerations and mandatory nature of any sentencing should be removed or minimized.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[soIsee]

I think that you are referring to the case of one man who was charged for the murder of a coffeeshop owner. The Police inspector who was the IO of the case got the sack for incompetence. Apparently the real culprit was in Queenstown Remand for another case revealed it to the inmate who then conveyed it to the defence counsel. I think JBJ was also involved to some extent.

If the real culprit had not spoken , not sure what the fate of the wrong person would have been.

Thanks for all the insider infor about the things ppl generally never get to hear.

But then again, the lethality of triads and drugs cannot made any entry to this soil here. Even their drug mules caused damage beyond imagination to the ppl in any country.

Which expalins why the death penalty stays.

Same goes to the up-coming casino gambling where these ppl will be involved. But then there was a case, where the triad did come here to commit murder and get away with it.

Heard they marked and target the fella, as he was in a building carpark.

I am gravely worried about what can be done to stop these ppl in the future as the country opens up.

To sum it up, the death penalty will have to be introduced to cover more than drug trafficking in the future. Cos there will be crimes that have as large, if not , a worse impact, upon the general population as countries open up and triads and crime lords get more complex in their operation.

The only way to deal with them is to permannently put them out of action for good.

 

[TeeKee]

Is it time to hang the first class honour law graduate from cambridge?

He only sold arms to Myanmar military junta, who used it to kill hundred and thousands of civilian and monks.

Now why would we want to hang him? He wasn't directly involved in the killing.

But we have death penalty for trafficking drugs!!! The drug traffickers are not directly involved in the killing of those drug addicts who ODed due to their own consumption.

Still he is due for hanging soon!!

So by this logic should that Cambridge law graduate be sent to the gallows too?

 

[leetahbar]

[COLOR="_______"]Only you can lead all debates to your own personal agenda, Bob Sim Kheng Hwee of Blk 171 Mei Ling Street![/COLOR]

the style u write, i could ve mistaken u as the notorious troll fr some abc market! LOL!

 

[TeeKee]

How did you managed to get protection from them?

 

[Papsmearer]

Goh Meng Seng

Goh, I think that you are missing the whole point here. The death penalty is one thing. I agree with it for really heinous crimes like mass premeditated murder and what not.

But with regards to drug related death penalties, the things that spring to my mind after reading the newspaper accounts of the various trials over the years, is how flimsy the evidence is. In some cases, the victim or criminal was caught with the drugs, never committed a crime before, and in many cases could have been innocent victims who had someone put something into their luggage. Its only the word of the police officer or Customs officer that say they found the drugs in the accused luggage. It could happen to Chee Soon Juan when he comes back from overseas. U see what I mean. What is their motive? Money? Some one risks their lives for a few thousand dollars to act as a courier? A heroin user? No, most of these people are not addicts. In todays tech age, its not difficult to find out whether the package where the drug was wrapped in has the accused DNA. Was his fingerprints on the packing? Was his saliva used to seal the package? There are many ways to determine if the accused actually handled the drugs. Did the accused have the drugs in his bloodstream? I have not seen one mention of a prosecutor saying that they found traces of heroin under the accused's fingernails or something like that. In a court in the US or UK, this case would have a poor chance of a successful max penalty prosecution. I can tell you for sure that luggage at airports get broken into all the time. People steal from luggages. Its just as easy to put something in a luggage as it is to take out something. U yourself have said that the onus is onthe accused to prove his innocence, quite the opposite of what the law says.

The other thing of interests that needs to be asked is why hang them? Why not shoot them, lethal inject them, electrocute them, etc.? These are the common and preferred means in major capital punishment countries like China and the US. The only logical conclusion that can be drawn is the accused organs are being harvested for sale or use some where else.

I think you should say to keep the drug death penalty but the burden should be overwhelmingly on the state to prove their case.