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PAP has done well. Singapore is on the way back to Gold Standard in Covid19 reponse!

There were 50,000 excess deaths caused by flu in the UK in the 2017/18 flu season.

The current death toll from Covid-19 is 10,000 cases less at 40,000.

The UK did not shut down for flu so why did it shut down for Covid which is less lethal? https://www.usnews.com/news/world/a...ll-lowered-to-41-329-after-methodology-change



telegraph.co.uk

Ineffective flu jab blamed as extra winter deaths hit 40-year high
Laura Donnelly, Health Editor 30 November 2018 • 11:15am

6-7 minutes


The number of winter deaths last year the hit highest level in more than 40 years after the failure of last year’s flu jab.

There were an estimated 50,100 excess winter deaths in England and Wales in 2017/18 - the highest recorded since winter 1975/76, figures from the Office for National Statistics show.

The number of excess winter deaths observed in 2017/18 was higher than all years since the 1975/76 winter period, when there were 58,100 extra deaths. The last peak was in 2014/15, when there were 43,850 excess deaths - which was the worst figure since the millennium.

Compared with recent years, excess winter deaths observed in 2017/18 were 45.1 per cent higher than the 2016/17 winter and more than double that seen in 2015/16.

Nick Stripe, head of health analysis and life events at the ONS, said: "The number of excess winter deaths in England and Wales in 2017-2018 was the highest recorded since the winter of 1975-1976.

"It is likely that last winter's increase was due to the predominant strain of flu, the effectiveness of the influenza vaccine and below-average winter temperatures."

Last year's flu jab protected just one in 10 pensioners.

The worst protection was among over 65s - the age group most vulnerable to flu - with effectiveness of 10.1 per cent and none at all against some key strains, an evaluation by Public Health England shows. Figures among younger adults were little better at 12.2 per cent, with rates of 26.9 per cent among children, the provisional end-of-season estimates show.

The failings contributed to the worst flu season for seven years, with 15,000 deaths from the virus, around twice the average figure, and the worst NHS performance on record.

Health officials hope to avert such a crisis this winter, with new types of jabs on offer for all adults.

This year adults below the age of 65 eligible for jabs - those with common health problems such as asthma and diabetes - are being offered a vaccine which protects against four key strains of flu, instead of the previous version which protected against three. And pensioners are being offered a boosted jab, found to better protect the elderly.

However, there have been concerns about the lateness of the decision to order the new types of vaccination. As a result, deliveries to GP surgeries have been staggered, with some 40 per cent of stocks only due to arrive this month.

Caroline Abrahams, Age UK's Charity Director, said the new figures were “distressing” with more than nine in 10 excess deaths involving pensioners.

She said: “A toxic cocktail of poor housing, high energy prices and ill health can make winter a dangerous time for many older people, and tragically it is the oldest old and those who are the most vulnerable who particularly suffer the consequences.

“We know such high levels of excess winter deaths are not inevitable. As a country we are not doing enough to ensure our older population stays warm and well warm, well and protected from winter flu throughout the harsh winter months.

“Age UK is urging older people to do everything possible to protect themselves against the threats posed by the winter cold – and it is vital that we pull together and make sure we all help those around us.”

The charity advised all pensioners to have the new boosted jabs this year. It also said patients elderly patients should check eligibility for the pneumonia vaccine. And it urged pensioners to wrap up warm, keep a stocked medicine cabinet of cold and sore throat.

Dr Jenny Harries, deputy medical director at Public Health England said: "The winter of 2017/18 saw an intense flu season and some very cold weather. Such weather particularly affects people who are already vulnerable, increasing the risk of heart attack and stroke.

“We are working closely with other public and community health and care systems to advise people how to Stay Well This Winter and we have made new flu vaccines available, including a more effective vaccine for all adults aged 65 and over. We urge all vulnerable groups to take up the offer of the flu vaccine.”

An NHS spokesman said: “The impact of flu is exactly why this winter, people over-65 are being offered the most effective flu jab available anywhere in the world, as part of a record NHS vaccination programme that has made 8.5 million doses available and includes free coverage for care home workers.

“There is still time for people to get vaccinated before the start of the flu season, while frail and elderly people can take common sense steps, like heating their homes, to help them stay well this winter.”

However, there have been concerns about the lateness of the decision to order the new types of vaccination. As a result, deliveries to GP surgeries have been staggered, with some 40 per cent of stocks only due to arrive this month.
Caroline Abrahams, Age UK's Charity Director, said the new figures were “distressing” with more than nine in 10 excess deaths involving pensioners.

She said: “A toxic cocktail of poor housing, high energy prices and ill health can make winter a dangerous time for many older people, and tragically it is the oldest old and those who are the most vulnerable who particularly suffer the consequences.

“We know such high levels of excess winter deaths are not inevitable. As a country we are not doing enough to ensure our older population stays warm and well warm, well & protected from winter flu throughout the harsh winter months.

“Age UK is urging older people to do everything possible to protect themselves against the threats posed by the winter cold – and it is vital that we pull together and make sure we all help those around us.”

The charity advised all pensioners to have the new boosted jabs this year. It also said patients elderly patients should check eligibility for the pneumonia vaccine. And it urged pensioners to wrap up warm, keep a stocked medicine cabinet of cold and sore throat.
 
There is a cure for flu but not wuhan virus. If you don't know the difference, then no body can help you. Like the saying goes, stupidity has no cure.

There is no cure for flu. There is a vaccination which varies in effectiveness. In some years it misses the mark completely.

At this very moment there are more people dying daily from flu than from covid-19.... 5 times as many to be exact.

If there is a cure why are so many dying? It's because the vaccine does not work especially in old people with compromised immune systems.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/health-news/12374033/more-die-flu-coronavirus-seven-weeks/

https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/12/nearly-five-times-people-dying-flu-pneumonia-coronavirus-13118709/

There may be no cure for stupidity but there actually is a cure for your ignorance and that is education.

You should get the facts before making statements that reveal your lack of knowledge.

1597659573264.png
 
There is no cure for flu. There is a vaccination which varies in effectiveness. In some years it misses the mark completely.

At this very moment there are more people dying daily from flu than from covid-19.... 5 times as many to be exact.

If there is a cure why are so many dying? It's because the vaccine does not work especially in old people with compromised immune systems.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/health-news/12374033/more-die-flu-coronavirus-seven-weeks/

https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/12/nearly-five-times-people-dying-flu-pneumonia-coronavirus-13118709/

There may be no cure for stupidity but there actually is a cure for your ignorance and that is education.

You should get the facts before making statements that reveal your lack of knowledge.

View attachment 88869


There is a big difference between death because of getting flu due to old age or death because of flu.

Many old people died of flu because of old age like one of my uncle. He was 90 yo and had lung influenza infection due to his Parkinson disease which he can't control swallowing action. His old age causes him to get the infection and not the other way round.

Many old people passed away like this are classified as death by flu which is not wrong but main reason is old age. From your stats, please find the details like the age of those that pass away from flu and was it the only factor or were they sick from other illness as well.

Don't try to act smart when you not.
 
There is a big difference between death because of getting flu due to old age or death because of flu.

Many old people died of flu because of old age like one of my uncle. He was 90 yo and had lung influenza infection due to his Parkinson disease which he can't control swallowing action. His old age causes him to get the infection and not the other way round.

Many old people passed away like this are classified as death by flu which is not wrong but main reason is old age. From your stats, please find the details like the age of those that pass away from flu and was it the only factor or were they sick from other illness as well.

Don't try to act smart when you not.

It's exactly the same with covid-19. The average age of those dying from Covid-19 is in the mid to high 80s. Many are already suffering from various other serious illnesses.

However because they also tested positive for Covid-19 their death is attributed to the coronvirus.

However what is even worse with influenza is that it kills infants too which is something that Covid-19 rarely does.

In the USA an average of 100 infants die from influenza infections every year. During the swine flu epidemic almost 300 infants died from swine flu.
 
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It's exactly the same with covid-19. The average age of those dying from Covid-19 is in the mid to high 80s. Many are already suffering from various other serious illnesses.

However because they also tested positive for Covid-19 their death is attributed to the coronvirus.

However what is even worse with influenza is that it kills infants too which is something that Covid-19 rarely does.

In the USA an average of 100 infants die from influenza infections every year. During the swine flu epidemic almost 300 infants died from swine flu.


Nope, wuhan virus is more contagious and spread more readily and more potent to the weak. Also, wuhan virus survive longer and harder to kill than the swine flu virus.
 
Ordinary flu is rarely asymptomatic and the incubation period is only a few days. Quite different from Covid-19. :wink:

1-66.jpg
 
Nope, wuhan virus is more contagious and spread more readily and more potent to the weak. Also, wuhan virus survive longer and harder to kill than the swine flu virus.

You can say what you like. I rely on the data and all the stats show otherwise.
 
You can say what you like. I rely on the data and all the stats show otherwise.

Nope, I am not the one who said that. A lot of the doctors claim that. Data can show anything you want if you know how to include or exclude the data you want to show.
 
Nope, I am not the one who said that. A lot of the doctors claim that. Data can show anything you want if you know how to include or exclude the data you want to show.

So let's take Singapore's data then. 56,000 cases less than 30 deaths nobody critical.

If you doubt the data tell me which figure is fraudulent or fudged.

Work out the case mortality for yourself.

1597725755417.png
 
So let's take Singapore's data then. 56,000 cases less than 30 deaths nobody critical.

If you doubt the data tell me which figure is fraudulent or fudged.

Work out the case mortality for yourself.

View attachment 88931

I have said before, high flu death was because of mainly from old age and flu is the complication resulting from old age hence weak immune system.
Wuhan virus is the other way round.

If you want to compare apple to apple, compare the data with death without pre-condition complication and age comparison to see which is more potent. .
 
I have said before, high flu death was because of mainly from old age and flu is the complication resulting from old age hence weak immune system.
Wuhan virus is the other way round.

If you want to compare apple to apple, compare the data with death without pre-condition complication and age comparison to see which is more potent. .

In all the age related stats that are available you'll find that influenza kills more of the younger age groups compared to the Wuhan virus.

Take any country and you'll see the same trend. Here is the data for Australia :

https://www.health.gov.au/resources/covid-19-deaths-by-age-group-and-sex

If you take a look any other country where the stats are available you'll find exactly the same pattern.

1597731764365.png




On the other hand influenza can be devastating for children.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/can-you-die-from-the-flu/

While this year's flu season has been milder overall than last year's, to date 41 children have died across the country from flu-related causes.

The number of flu-related deaths varies widely from year to year, but even during a relatively mild flu season the illness claims thousands of lives. The CDC reports that over a three-decade period starting in the mid-1970s, the number of flu deaths in the U.S. ranged from a low of about 3,000 a year to as many as 49,000 in a bad year.

Last year's flu season was particularly deadly, claiming the lives of more than 80,000 Americans, including a record 185 children.


Bottom line is you can make whatever general statements and air whatever opinions you want but the data shows otherwise.
 
In all the age related stats that are available you'll find that influenza kills more of the younger age groups compared to the Wuhan virus.

Take any country and you'll see the same trend. Here is the data for Australia :

https://www.health.gov.au/resources/covid-19-deaths-by-age-group-and-sex

If you take a look any other country where the stats are available you'll find exactly the same pattern.

View attachment 88937



On the other hand influenza can be devastating for children.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/can-you-die-from-the-flu/

While this year's flu season has been milder overall than last year's, to date 41 children have died across the country from flu-related causes.

The number of flu-related deaths varies widely from year to year, but even during a relatively mild flu season the illness claims thousands of lives. The CDC reports that over a three-decade period starting in the mid-1970s, the number of flu deaths in the U.S. ranged from a low of about 3,000 a year to as many as 49,000 in a bad year.

Last year's flu season was particularly deadly, claiming the lives of more than 80,000 Americans, including a record 185 children.


Bottom line is you can make whatever general statements and air whatever opinions you want but the data shows otherwise.

And this data is AFTER precautionary measures imposed and yet still such high infected and death rate. I am sure the data would be much much higher if wuhan virus are treated like any flu.
 
And this data is AFTER precautionary measures imposed and yet still such high infected and death rate. I am sure the data would be much much higher if wuhan virus are treated like any flu.

Nope it does not make any difference what sort of measures are taken. Just take a look at Sweden where there was no lockdown, no masks, schools open, bars open, restaurants open, factories open... everything open.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/

1597732755010.png


A child under 9 years old has a 0.001% chance of dying from Covid-19 compared to 0.05 to 0.1% chance of dying from influenza.

I'm not going to spoonfeed you. You can work out the case mortality rates for yourself for the various age groups.
 
Nope it does not make any difference what sort of measures are taken. Just take a look at Sweden where there was no lockdown, no masks, schools open, bars open, restaurants open, factories open... everything open.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/

View attachment 88938

A child under 9 years old has a 0.001% chance of dying from Covid-19 compared to 0.05 to 0.1% chance of dying from influenza.

I'm not going to spoonfeed you. You can work out the case mortality rates for yourself for the various age groups.

Again, even after early detection, tight preventive measures, and with intense medical treatment, the death rate and inflection rate is still so high as compared to flu.

Even 3 year old kid can understand how potent this wuhan virus is. I'm not going to spoonfeed you on how dangerous this virus is when there is no vaccine or antibiotic to cure as compared to common flu. As they say, stupidity has no cure.
 
Again, even after early detection, tight preventive measures, and with intense medical treatment, the death rate and inflection rate is still so high as compared to flu.

Even 3 year old kid can understand how potent this wuhan virus is. I'm not going to spoonfeed you on how dangerous this virus is when there is no vaccine or antibiotic to cure as compared to common flu. As they say, stupidity has no cure.

That's just your opinion. The data does not support your stance.

And antibiotics don't work for viral infections such as the flu. Antibiotics only work for bacterial infections.

In addition flu vaccines are getting less and less effective over the years and do not provide much protection. They are rolled out by the pharma companies because they make a lot of money but very often only 2 to 3 out of 10 shots actually work. Don't put your faith in vaccines they are a "wayang" measure just like face masks.

For Covid-19 the strategy for big pharma is to make the virus sound way more serious than it actually is and they hope to make a killing when a vaccine comes along. That is the reason for all the alarmist/horror stories and pessimistic predictions regarding 2nd, 3rd wave etc. If the fear factor is gone the vaccine will not sell.

1597733959663.png
 
That's just your opinion. The data does not support your stance.

And antibiotics don't work for viral infections such as the flu. Antibiotics only work for bacterial infections.

In addition flu vaccines are getting less and less effective over the years and do not provide much protection. They are rolled out by the pharma companies because they make a lot of money but very often only 2 to 3 out of 10 shots actually work. Don't put your faith in vaccines they are a "wayang" measure just like face masks.

For Covid-19 the strategy for big pharma is to make the virus sound way more serious than it actually is and they hope to make a killing when a vaccine comes along. That is the reason for all the alarmist/horror stories and pessimistic predictions regarding 2nd, 3rd wave etc. If the fear factor is gone the vaccine will not sell.

View attachment 88939

There is nothing alarmist about wuhan virus as Wuhan was the epic center for the virus before the world comes to know about it and the situation got so bad that many died because hospitals cannot cope with the spread rate and the potent of the virus. What an irony if you believe CCP figures, and then believe in the conspiracy theory about pharma companies.
 
There is nothing alarmist about wuhan virus as Wuhan was the epic center for the virus before the world comes to know about it and the situation got so bad that many died because hospitals cannot cope with the spread rate and the potent of the virus. What an irony if you believe CCP figures, and then believe in the conspiracy theory about pharma companies.

A lot of people died initially because it is a new virus and there was therefore very little immunity in any population.

However now that the initial surge of deaths is over Covid-19 is now causing less deaths than influenza.
 
A lot of people died initially because it is a new virus and there was therefore very little immunity in any population.

However now that the initial surge of deaths is over Covid-19 is now causing less deaths than influenza.

Nope, you can say that about wuhan but not the rest of the world as many places impose strict measures to prevent it from getting worst and if without these measures, the situation will be even worst. Also, the virus can evolve and won't stay as it is. So even if you are able to recover from the initial wuhan virus attack, No guarantee that you will still survive it's evolved virus after living off from human infection.
 
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