Healthcare costs and insurance.

[krafty]

Most sinkies are first and foremost $ minded then whatever else.

Doesnt matter what you do. Agreed?

we have been engineered from young to know the importance of money.

 

[bobby]

Most sinkies are first and foremost $ minded then whatever else.

Doesnt matter what you do. Agreed?

Agreed...especially when in politics.

 

[nightsafari]

No more liao. Why you think so many complaints to SMC?

Problem is they still train doctors that there is a right way of doing things according to what doctors think.

There is only one right way.....whatever the patients wants way. Seriously. The so called "good" doctors you always hear about are the ones give patient what they want.

I have to say that this debate between you and @zhihau is emblematic of the problem between professionals and laypeople. The knowledge gap. Most laypeople unfortunately can be very superstitious believers for lack of a better word. They believe that if ankle pain, xray is good, got cough antibiotics is good. They all want a silver bullet and the doctor in this case is seen as provider of silver bullets. In many cases as you say, the patient already indoctrinated by family, friends and internet about what silver bullet should be. For the most part, us laypeople, even the ones who are more knowlegeable, usually have no clear idea what the process of diagnosis entails.

OTOH, many doctors also really fed up and tired because day in day out see the same old bleating sheep shit. Give good advice, no need antibiotics, go home and rest get labelled quack doctor. So a lot just look at patients suspiciously and warily almost like druggies looking to get a fix. But some patients truly don't know much and trust the doctor implicitly, really as the most reliable source of information on health. Part of the problem is that there's no database where one can get a semblance of information to at least relate to the doctors diagnosis. So without any background training or information, the patient has no choice but to accept what's been told. Of course you can refuse and get a 2nd opinion, but in most minds how is that better than the 1st?

So the patient is always stuck in a hole of ignorance and lan lan usually has to accept what's been told.

 

[AhMeng]

I have to say that this debate between you and @zhihau is emblematic of the problem between professionals and laypeople. The knowledge gap. Most laypeople unfortunately can be very superstitious believers for lack of a better word. They believe that if ankle pain, xray is good, got cough antibiotics is good. They all want a silver bullet and the doctor in this case is seen as provider of silver bullets. In many cases as you say, the patient already indoctrinated by family, friends and internet about what silver bullet should be. For the most part, us laypeople usually have no clear idea what the process of diagnosis entails.

OTOH, many doctors also really fed up and tired because day in day out see the same old bleating sheep shit. Give good advice, no need antibiotics, go home and rest get labelled quack doctor. So a lot just look at patients suspiciously and warily almost like druggies looking to get a fix. But some patients truly don't know much and trust the doctor implicitly, really as the most reliable source of information on health. Part of the problem is that there's no database where one can get a semblance of information to at least relate to the doctors diagnosis. So without any background training or information, the patient has no choice but to accept what's been told. Of course you can refuse and get a 2nd opinion, but in most minds how is that better than the 1st?

So the patient is always stuck in a hole of ignorance and lan lan usually has to accept what's been told.

Well said. I have added to your points.

 

[zhihau]

I have to say that this debate between you and @zhihau is emblematic of the problem between professionals and laypeople.
...
So the patient is always stuck in a hole of ignorance and lan lan usually has to accept what's been told.

I trusted the Dr, I don’t play Dr.

I know very well that very little knowledge can kill.

 

[nightsafari]

I trusted the Dr, I don’t play Dr.

I know very well that very little knowledge can kill.

Sorry zhihau, was not referring to you because I feel that I'm exactly in the same situation as you. I was answering nary69sg about similar general complaints I hear from other doctors about patients in general, not you.

In our case, we lan lan. If we don't follow the doctor what can we do? We have no choice, no recourse.

At some point, because we don't have access to their training and knowledge, we have to put our trust in them and that means having to buy their advice wholesale and obediently follow. There are no landmarks for us to decide if we are going the right direction or not. That is the defining characteristic of a professional, layperson relationship whether doctor or engineer or lawyer.

So to use a lawyer as an example instead, if he tells us that we have to plead this way because it's our best chance, what choice have we got? See another lawyer or believe the 1st one? How do we know the 2nd is better than the 1st? We don't. So back to lan lan.

sorry if my post read as you not being logical about health choices. I was trying to say too many things in 1 para. paiseh. Writing is not as easy a medium as chatting.

 

[nayr69sg]

I trusted the Dr, I don’t play Dr.

I know very well that very little knowledge can kill.

Sorry zhihau, was not referring to you because I feel that I'm exactly in the same situation as you. I was answering nary69sg about similar general complaints I hear from other doctors about patients in general, not you.

In our case, we lan lan. If we don't follow the doctor what can we do? We have no choice, no recourse.

At some point, because we don't have access to their training and knowledge, we have to put our trust in them and that means having to buy their advice wholesale and obediently follow. There are no landmarks for us to decide if we are going the right direction or not. That is the defining characteristic of a professional, layperson relationship whether doctor or engineer or lawyer.

So to use a lawyer as an example instead, if he tells us that we have to plead this way because it's our best chance, what choice have we got? See another lawyer or believe the 1st one? How do we know the 2nd is better than the 1st? We don't. So back to lan lan.

sorry if my post read as you not being logical about health choices. I was trying to say too many things in 1 para. paiseh. Writing is not as easy a medium as chatting.

That's not true. Many complain to the college if they dont get what they want. Cook up and exaggerate what they dont like about the dr. All complaints are heard even if they are vexatious.

It is different for different specialties.

Surgical specialties you really have to trust the surgeon. But in fields like family medicine it is mostly undifferentiated problems.

Nowadays most patients wont trust the dr on his clinical assessment alone. You need tests to validate the assessment.

And if a particular treatment is preferred why not just give it a try if that's what the patient wants?

I am not upset with the patients. I am upset with the way the medical profession continues to pretend that there is a set way to do things and train doctors during med school in this way. Only for them to find out the reality in practice.

And then the colleges also dont stand by drs who follow the guidelines. They will always say....."oh the doctor needs to learn to communicate better"

There is no miscommunication. It is just a mismatch in what patients wants and what doctor deemed is best for patient.

So my advice to young doctors is just give and do whatever your patients want as long as it is not harmful to them or illegal.

Stay away from procedures also because they carry risks and the way consent is taken nobody gets lawyers to write legal contracts that list all the possible problems and then ask patients to sign. So you are never covered fully.

It is a game the medical profession and the regulatory body plays.

 

[nayr69sg]

Sorry zhihau, was not referring to you because I feel that I'm exactly in the same situation as you. I was answering nary69sg about similar general complaints I hear from other doctors about patients in general, not you.

In our case, we lan lan. If we don't follow the doctor what can we do? We have no choice, no recourse.

At some point, because we don't have access to their training and knowledge, we have to put our trust in them and that means having to buy their advice wholesale and obediently follow. There are no landmarks for us to decide if we are going the right direction or not. That is the defining characteristic of a professional, layperson relationship whether doctor or engineer or lawyer.

So to use a lawyer as an example instead, if he tells us that we have to plead this way because it's our best chance, what choice have we got? See another lawyer or believe the 1st one? How do we know the 2nd is better than the 1st? We don't. So back to lan lan.

sorry if my post read as you not being logical about health choices. I was trying to say too many things in 1 para. paiseh. Writing is not as easy a medium as chatting.

Most will go with a lawyer who says the way to go about it is what the client wants to to about it.

As with everything.

Nobody likes to be told they are wrong. Period.

So just follow what the customer wants. Dont geh kiang.

What for? Seriously. What benefit does it do to tell patients who want a course of antibiotics for their cough that they should not have it?

What? Prevent antibiotic resistance? Sure.....

Consider though......if you are wrong and later the patient gets pneumonia. They can sue. Complain to college. And first thing they will ask why didnt you prescribe antibiotics?

You answer.....so that I dont promote antibiotic resistance. They will say yeah but this patient got pneumonia leh!

Never go against what your patients wishes or relatives wishes. Better to do more than less although all kinds of nut case programs and campaigns tell you otherwise.

In sg they trained us not to anyhow order test. Waste tax dollars.

Yeah but when you miss the crack fracture or the subdural hemorrhage you can say oh but I was right the other 99 times leh. Saved lots of tax dollars.

It is a trap. You play into politician and hospital administrator game.

They leave you out to hang dry.

When the legal suit and complaint comes you answer yourself and they will laugh when you say saving tax payer.

Nobody gets a medal for saving tax dollars.

Hypocrisy.

Honestly. Who doesn't love a doctor who listens to their patients concerns and does what they were thinking of getting? Is attentive. Updates on results quickly. Helps get referred quickly. Writes MC without hesitation and questioning your sickness? Trusts that you know best what your body needs?

Who?

Or you prefer the dr talk to you like you know nothing (which some of you say you know nothing) is like your teacher or father expect you to just follow what he or she says without question. Who?

Very few doctors in the latter group will be successful or well liked no matter how smart they are.

Dr House from the TV show is a fantasy. In real life no one will hire him and he would be struck off for numerous ethical offences.

If people really loved just factual medical treatment then all the young MOs in hospitals and polyclinic will be he most popular around.

 

[nayr69sg]

Customer is always right lah. The courts and the professional regulatory bodies will agree in medicine related cases.

So please guys. Exercise your right. You do know that no doctor is allowed to counter sue any patient for anything? It goes against the profession rules. Because it will negatively impact the ability of the college to self regulate by causing patients to fear complaining to the college.

So feel free to complain. You can only win. After getting a few complaints the dr will learn to pander to the wishes of the customers and be a better dr.

 

[zhihau]

So feel free to complain. You can only win. After getting a few complaints the dr will learn to pander to the wishes of the customers and be a better dr.

So can go ahead and complain this Dr overcharged for medication?

 

[nayr69sg]

So can go ahead and complain this Dr overcharged for medication?

Nobody will stop you. Entirely up to you. At least you will get an explanation.

But better just tell the dr next time what you were hoping to get and see what he or she says.

Remember that all drs are taught to take into account ICE. And come to a common decision on the plan.

Patients Ideas. Concerns and Expectations. So tell them what you think about their suggestions and what you were expecting. I think most drs would grant your request if it isnt unreasonable.

 

[zhihau]

Nobody will stop you. Entirely up to you. At least you will get an explanation.

But better just tell the dr next time what you were hoping to get and see what he or she says.

Remember that all drs are taught to take into account ICE. And come to a common decision on the plan.

Patients Ideas. Concerns and Expectations. So tell them what you think about their suggestions and what you were expecting. I think most drs would grant your request if it isnt unreasonable.

In this case, the doctor suspected it’s secondary infection and prescribed the antibiotics, generally in accordance to the ICE you’re talking about.

Are we as patients still allowed to reject the antibiotics because it is too expensive?

 

[nayr69sg]

In this case, the doctor suspected it’s secondary infection and prescribed the antibiotics, generally in accordance to the ICE you’re talking about.

Are we as patients still allowed to reject the antibiotics because it is too expensive?

Of course!

I find it strange you are asking such questions. Either you are sarcastic or you really are that gullible and authority phobic

 

[zhihau]

Of course!

I find it strange you are asking such questions. Either you are sarcastic or you really are that gullible and authority phobic

I’m a bit authority phobic, that’s why I can fuck the PAP only at the polls.

 

[nayr69sg]

I’m a bit authority phobic, that’s why I can fuck the PAP only at the polls.

Well trained sinkie.

 

[garlic]

Doctors only know as much as the books that tell them. The books that tell them are designed to sell pills and procedures by big pharma and big food corporations.

Doctor: Drink milk for strong bones.

Scientific facts: Not only does milk not build strong bones, it actually weakens them and hasten osteoperosis and is related to other health hazards, sometimes suspected direct causal factor.

Trust doctors blindly at your own risk, listen to their diagnosis though.. draw own conclusion and read, read read. It's not their fault, they are trained this way. They are the cogs in the multi-billion industry..

 

[nayr69sg]

Doctors only know as much as the books that tell them. The books that tell them are designed to sell pills and procedures by big pharma and big food corporations.

Doctor: Drink milk for strong bones.

Scientific facts: Not only does milk not build strong bones, it actually weakens them and hasten osteoperosis and is related to other health hazards, sometimes suspected direct causal factor.

Trust doctors blindly at your own risk, listen to their diagnosis though.. draw own conclusion and read, read read. It's not their fault, they are trained this way. They are the cogs in the multi-billion industry..

@zhihau see this is what a normal patient is.

You are so smart @garlic. Yes dont drink milk! There are many controversial facts about milk.

I dont listen to pharma either. Just follow what patients tell me to do. Much easier. I dont have to know anything! Lol!

It is also why some of the good doctors people love turn out to be people pretending to be doctors and have no medical degree either!

 

[zhihau]

That’s why I love the collective wisdom of the Sammyboys here.

 

[sweetiepie]

Medical insurance has spoiled the market in Singapore.

KNN most medical insurance will not cover supplements items but they should identify the supplements is purely a supplement or a necessity KNN e.g some elderly osteoporosis patient requires sufficent vit d in order to have the injection for osteoporosis and insurance companies refuse to cover and vit d is damn fucking expensive and not a subsidized drug KNN

 

[nayr69sg]

KNN most medical insurance will not cover supplements items but they should identify the supplements is purely a supplement or a necessity KNN e.g some elderly osteoporosis patient requires sufficent vit d in order to have the injection for osteoporosis and insurance companies refuse to cover and vit d is damn fucking expensive and not a subsidized drug KNN

Are you serious? Vit D is damn expensive? You crazy or what. Vit d is damn CHEAP!

What vit D you smoking ar? You go Google vit D how much lar. Ridiculous! 1 year supply no more than $20.

What injection for osteoporosis are you talking about? Most of us recommend oral bisphosphonate once a week as first line.