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Chitchat Japan vs China

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Whilst there may be many explanations and especially those who are fond of Chinese bashing to justify their looking down on China, and laugh at their supposedly backwardness, 'culturally' or otherwise, let's not forget the simple facts :

1 China is the biggest country in the world with the most number of people within its legal borders;
2 In terms of size, despite whatever usually shown on world maps, China is a country with a land area that is so vast that it occupies a few time zones;
3 Officially, it has 38 recognised different nationalities (cultural, social, ethnic) within its borders, each with its own developed languages and practices. They only common language that unites China and made the country great is Mandarin. Great kudos must also be given to a man, 2000 years ago who united and created the concept and entity known by everyone person on earth as 'China';
4 In terms of recorded history, China has over 5,000 years of traceable and recorded history, one in which no other one people or one country could be compared in terms of details and richness;
5 China as a country just survived great disasters less than 100 years ago - end of a thousand year system of feudal government, natural disasters, invasion by barbaric jappies (the rape of Nanking, the murders of 20 million people in NE China), WW2, civic war, the Great Leap forward, the Cultural Revolution, etc, etc;
6 The Cultural revolution in particular set back China's progress by more than 30 years until rational minded and nationalistic leaders like Teng, managed to break though the cloud of confusion and set the country on the path of development. Even then, the systems are not yet fully developed, nor mature and there is a long way for the leaders to bring the country into truly modern society. In many hard science areas, China and Chinese have already shown themselves to be capable to complete and even lead the world. Even more so in many other areas like cultural, social, etc in the many years to come.

So, it is completely a laugh, when the west and their so called pseudo democracy and all of the liberal tards try and impose their systems on China.

Simple....China as a country has thrived and survived with many periods of cultural, social, economic golden eras in the last 5,000 years. What is 'democracy' and western civilization but just an upstart with a mere few hundred years of muddled and war infested histories. Come on, don't teach the grandfather how to suck eggs!!!

In terms of population size, what is usa, any country in Europe or anywhere else as compared to China? Managing and governing 1500 million people is just not the same as governing a mere 100 million people or so. So, again, don't come to the master and try to show off the skills when they are the ones who are backward and retarded.

Give China another 50 years, when their systems are adjusted and in place, the country will lead the world, hopefully, never in the barbaric and greedy baronic robber master style of the ang mos.

Cheers:smile:

The present is superfluous,China is forever!!
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
Not sure if Japan deserves the credits. They seemed to be losing the plot for the last decade - stagnation, Fukushima , ?? PMs in ?? years...

Japan and China came from diff history..

Japan was ruled by Shogunates until WW2..never conquered..post WW2 had heavy U.S. aid to rebuild and modernise, never atone for its war crimes, U.S. protectorate, learnt the best of Quality and Industrialisation from U.S. gurus like Deming, Juran et al..

China was weakened by dynastic misrule, conquered and divided by foreigners and Japan, then ruled by Mao and the Communist Party..and the folly of the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution..

So effectively, Japan powered ahead after WW2 circa 1945...China only came out of the morass in 1978 due to Deng Xiao Peng. So there's a gap of 33 years...or a lost generation exacerbated by the Cultural Rev and Red Guard madness..

But now you can see China's infrastructural and engineering skills are not inferior, launched Space stations etc, now One Belt One Road that will defeat the U.S. encirclement and containment strategies in the Pacific...One route with access to precious resources in Europe and all the way into Africa and Asia..

Otoh, Japan without US as ally will be nothing.




When one goes to Japan, nearly everything is done to very high standards - hygiene, food, clothes, buildings,trains, roads, road signs, farms, shops, products, crafts and artisans, mannerisms, and even their culture. Its the same with their treatment of their environment and nature.

When one goes to China, the good things are in history - great wall, terra cotta warriors etc.

I always wondered despite their proximity, similar roots compared to other main ethnic groups where the fork in the road ocurred. The Koreans in the last 30 years have powered ahead and now have created their own identity.

Even when you talk to the natives of the 3 cultures, the Chinese will inevitably go back to his history, the Japanese will not talk about his history but his culture and the Korean will talk about their recent ascendency.

China is a behemoth and scale alone seems to be the only singular factor for its place on the world stage.

What gives?
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
Japan also has more homogeneity in culture and language than China. While China stumbled from dynasty to Republicanism to barbarians from outside to Communism, Japan had an Emperor as a unifying force.

The geography of Japan vis a vis China is also smaller..and being an island has more food resources than landlocked China except for the coastal cities.

As somebody has also said, the Japs dared not talk abt history or they have to account for their war atrocities.

China has a richer history and like it or not, historical events - bad and good - have shaped their progress.
 

tanwahtiu

Alfrescian
Loyal
Japanese were tribes until the fall of Tang Dynasty many hokkien fked and cross to Japan.

They teach tribes jap to write and read and educate and make jap tday.
 

syed putra

Alfrescian
Loyal
Much of what you wrote are about size and history, something which I mentioned in my opening thread. People do actually expect much more from China for the very reasons suggested - size and history and much earlier. The big question is what is holding it back and for this long.

When you step into Japan, from the airport to walking the streets one just is amazed how even little things are done and to such a high quality. I just can't explain why these 2 countries developed so differently.

If you look at other countries, you can see close similarity to their neighbours and the region. Examples are UK and France, Kenya and Uganda, US and Canada and for South America say between Bolivia and Peru. You can see a continuum of sorts in the examples cited. Look at Australia and NZ, same thing. But not where China and Japan is concerned. Its quite remarkable.

You mean like going from sinkland to jb?
 

tanwahtiu

Alfrescian
Loyal
Yes the jap need to be contained by China.

Jap is a very dangerous treacherous China neighbour.

As they say ypu can choose yr friends but not yr neighbors.



we got raped by qing,then we were raped by the west for 150 years,then the japs decided to rape us at the weakest moment of our history,the cultural revolution couldnt be helped,we were already at a very low point in history and we got sucked up in the madness of mao but then they said it was only thanks to mao's unification of china that today's china is possible today.

now china wants to do a little raping of our own,all of a sudden the west,USA and japan and others start making noise and kpkb,oi vey,these people just dunno when to shut up do they?they had their moment of fun now they want to bitch?

i say level the whole of japan with fire bombs and incendiary
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
If you look at the Chinese diaspora, they all seem to have done very well. The Hong Kongers and the Taiwanese have also powered ahead. So its not about physical or mental attributes of the race but something else. Communism is a bleep in its long history.

When you walk around Japan and now Korea, the things that have done to their country is amazing. Yet they do not ape the west or follow western pursuits in food, dress and nearly everything. Look at their homes, its nothing like the West, the architecture, decor, style, cutlery, crockery etc.

Look at the uniforms worn by their mechanics, civilian clothes of clerical staff etc, they seem to fit very well and worn with pride.

And why the high standards in all they do.

You mentioned the Emperor as a unifying force and that could be a factor. I wondered if Shinto is a factor as well. Still a mystery to me.

Not sure if Japan deserves the credits. They seemed to be losing the plot for the last decade - stagnation, Fukushima , ?? PMs in ?? years...

Japan and China came from diff history..

Japan was ruled by Shogunates until WW2..never conquered..post WW2 had heavy U.S. aid to rebuild and modernise, never atone for its war crimes, U.S. protectorate, learnt the best of Quality and Industrialisation from U.S. gurus like Deming, Juran et al..

China was weakened by dynastic misrule, conquered and divided by foreigners and Japan, then ruled by Mao and the Communist Party..and the folly of the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution..

So effectively, Japan powered ahead after WW2 circa 1945...China only came out of the morass in 1978 due to Deng Xiao Peng. So there's a gap of 33 years...or a lost generation exacerbated by the Cultural Rev and Red Guard madness..

But now you can see China's infrastructural and engineering skills are not inferior, launched Space stations etc, now One Belt One Road that will defeat the U.S. encirclement and containment strategies in the Pacific...One route with access to precious resources in Europe and all the way into Africa and Asia..

Otoh, Japan without US as ally will be nothing.
 

tanwahtiu

Alfrescian
Loyal
I believe it is in their blood they are only 1 race in japan. Then folliwed by language. Then followed by strong education.

Then followed by food they eat.

Then folliwwd by sex
 

kryonlight

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
The majority of commie chinks have no pride being a commie chink. Lack of pride is the reason behind their pervasive chabuduo culture. C919? Can fly and land, chabuduo. Aircraft carrier? Can sail to SCS and back, chabuduo.

They are all done for show to paste gold on commie crook Xi Jinping's face.
 

Thick Face Black Heart

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
When one goes to Japan, nearly everything is done to very high standards - hygiene, food, clothes, buildings,trains, roads, road signs, farms, shops, products, crafts and artisans, mannerisms, and even their culture. Its the same with their treatment of their environment and nature.

When one goes to China, the good things are in history - great wall, terra cotta warriors etc.

I always wondered despite their proximity, similar roots compared to other main ethnic groups where the fork in the road ocurred. The Koreans in the last 30 years have powered ahead and now have created their own identity.

Even when you talk to the natives of the 3 cultures, the Chinese will inevitably go back to his history, the Japanese will not talk about his history but his culture and the Korean will talk about their recent ascendency.

China is a behemoth and scale alone seems to be the only singular factor for its place on the world stage.

What gives?




China only dominates economically and politically because of its gift of geography. It takes more than just a super large population to create a country that dominates all aspects of world economic affairs. Other than that, it exports a toxic social and corporate culture that makes overseas Chinese feel ashamed.
 

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
If you look at the Chinese diaspora, they all seem to have done very well. The Hong Kongers and the Taiwanese have also powered ahead. So its not about physical or mental attributes of the race but something else. Communism is a bleep in its long history.

When you walk around Japan and now Korea, the things that have done to their country is amazing. Yet they do not ape the west or follow western pursuits in food, dress and nearly everything. Look at their homes, its nothing like the West, the architecture, decor, style, cutlery, crockery etc.

Look at the uniforms worn by their mechanics, civilian clothes of clerical staff etc, they seem to fit very well and worn with pride.

And why the high standards in all they do.

You mentioned the Emperor as a unifying force and that could be a factor. I wondered if Shinto is a factor as well. Still a mystery to me.

that is just ur opinion,u base ur conclusion merely on the surface,ur layman's unsophisticated based on all that glitters is gold principle,if Japan is so amazing,so nice and shiny on the surface,why has their economy been stagnant for the last two decades?why are japanese companies behemoths slowly dieing?why cant they seems to shake off the economic malaise and change their fate instead of continuing down the path of no return?iv seen tons of documentaries about japan,the mold and rot is slowly creeping and spreading through the foundations and cracks of Japan's wooden houses,
 
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frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
China only dominates economically and politically because of its gift of geography. It takes more than just a super large population to create a country that dominates all aspects of world economic affairs. Other than that, it exports a toxic social and corporate culture that makes overseas Chinese feel ashamed.

perhaps it takes a few nukes and icbms?is that what ur saying?and to hold the world hostage under the chinese yuan so u can blow ur economy to hell and let others foot the bill.
 

Slim_10_Sg

Alfrescian
Loyal
Chinese is the winner now. Japan is the loser.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...mateur-test-declares-china-the-winner.448472/

[h=1]Chinese vs. Japanese high-speed trains: amateur test declares China the winner[/h] Discussion in 'China & Far East' started by TaiShang, Sep 9, 2016.




  • Sep 9, 2016 #1

    [h=3]TaiShang ELITE MEMBER[/h]
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    Chinese vs. Japanese high-speed trains: amateur test declares China the winner
    September 08, 2016
    People's Daily Online


    FOREIGN201609081717000088738177234.jpg


    Beijing Times reposted on its official Sina Weibo account on Sept. 5 the video that shows failed attempts to balance a coin on a Japanese high-speed train. [Photo/Weibo]

    A video claiming to test the stability of Japanese bullet trains has recently attracted media attention. The video came on the heels of a similar video, purporting to test the stability of Chinese high-speed trains.

    A nearly 10-minute video clip widely circulated on Chinese video portals and social media throughout 2015. A Swedish man named Ola Von Koskull claimed to have shot the video while aboard the Beijing-Shanghai high-speed railway, uploading it to YouTube on March 14, 2015. The Swede successfully balanced a coin on the window sill of a CRH380 train traveling at 300 kilometers per hour (186 miles per hour) for nearly eight minutes. The video has garnered complimentary comments on both YouTube and its Chinese counterpart, Youku.

    On Sept. 1, the Sina Weibo account “Ding Ji Jian Zhu” posted a one-minute video claiming that someone had carried out the same test on the 700 Series Shinkansen bullet train in Japan. The video shows a person trying to balance a coin on the window sill of a moving train, but failing several times over the course of about 50 seconds. The video has been reposted by a number of Chinese media outlets, including the Beijing Times and Global Times.

    Although the two tests were not totally comparable, as they used different coins, the relative stability and smoothness of the Chinese high-speed rail seems quite clear. Since the videos came out, several experts have offered explanations for the impressive stability of Chinese trains, thepaper.cn reported.

    As the video shows, the coin stayed balanced even when the train stopped at the Changzhou North station, decelerating from 300 kilometers per hour to a full stop. This is due to the fact that the braking deceleration rate of the CRH380 train is less than 0.75 meters per second squared, which guarantees a smooth stop.

    FOREIGN201609081716000521322212653.jpg


    Chinese railways also adopt a larger railway curve radius, which prevents trains from making steep turns and ensures that trains make only the mildest horizontal motion when taking a turn. The minimum railway curve radius in European and Japanese railways is usually around 4 kilometers, but in China, for a train with a speed of 350 kilometers per hour, the curve radius is at least 7 kilometers. The CRH380 train in the video had a curve radius of 9 kilometers. To contain vertical vibrations, Chinese railways are built with mild slopes.

    Another secret for stability is the use of long steel pieces, which reduces friction in the joints of the railway. Every piece of steel has a length of 100 meters, four times longer than those used to build most ordinary railroads. While welding two pieces of steel together, no gap is permitted to be more than 0.3 millimeters wide, which is equal in size to four human hairs.

    Without a doubt, every component of China’s railways features precise craftsmanship.

    @Daniel808 , @AndrewJin , @cirr

 

Slim_10_Sg

Alfrescian
Loyal
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...bullet-trains-race-win-global-high-speed-rail


[h=1]China’s bullet trains in race to win global high-speed rail market[/h]

Quality and communication are key if the nation is to win, say foreign visitors to state-owned factory





PUBLISHED : Monday, 27 June, 2016, 12:02am
UPDATED : Monday, 27 June, 2016, 9:52am











http://www.scmp.com/author/wendy-wu
Wendy Wu


[h=2]Share
[/h]




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Giant factories, a wide range of advanced locomotives and a modern exhibition centre may have impressed foreign visitors to one of China’s biggest bullet train producers – but it will take more than that to clinch deals.
China is at an early stage of its push to export its high-speed rail technology, and there is much Beijing needs to address.
Officials from nearly 20 developing countries in Africa, Asia and South America visited the China Railway Rolling Stock Corporation’s (CRRC) Tangshan factory last month in a week-long programme arranged by the Hong Kong-based Finance Centre for South-South Cooperation.
Most came from countries along the route of China’s “One Belt, One Road” initiative aimed at boosting trade links and infrastructure such as railways.
[h=4]
China to help Iran build high-speed rail as part of ‘One Belt, One Road’ strategy
[/h] The overseas market for CRRC Tangshan is chiefly low- to medium-speed rail stock, railways and light rail systems that have been sold to Germany, Turkey and some African countries. It accounts for 30 per cent of the global locomotive market. But while the countries of most of the visitors have imported rail technology from China, including CRRC Tangshan, few have imported Chinese high-speed know-how.

CRRC Tangshan accounts for 70 per cent of high-speed locomotives starting from Beijing, including those running on the most profitable high-speed line between Beijing and Shanghai.
It provides 10 basic categories of locomotives and can complete standard orders in two months.
“It shows how a state-owned company can produce world-class products like bullet trains. It will feed the [One Belt, One Road] initiative,” said Biru Paksha Paul, chief economist with the Central Bank of Bangladesh.
[h=4]
Discontent in Indonesia over high-speed rail project jointly developed with China may turn the current impasse into a more protracted one
[/h] The low cost of Chinese products has been a traditional advantage. China’s bullet trains were a third cheaper than Japan or Germany’s, and were built in half the time of Japanese ones, Chinese experts said. But visitors said low prices were no longer the only thing buyers wanted.
“Developing countries now like low cost products, but at the same time they want quality. Most emerging economies in South Asia now can afford higher spending on public transport because people in those countries are now more conscious about quality,” Paul said.
“China’s next agenda will be to improve the quality of exportable trains and buses to capture a major share of Asian and African markets.”
CRRC Tangshan has developed a green model for urban railways that uses hydrogen as fuel and emits water. The model makes it easier for elderly passengers to board and disembark.
A senior executive at the Tangshan plant said it had not received any orders but some cities had shown an interest.
[h=4]
In praise of China’s high-speed trains
[/h] “I am under big pressure every day to find new markets as the overall economic situation is not good. Governments do not have robust fiscal strength to spend a huge amount on buying high-tech public vehicles,” he said.
China and Japan are the biggest two competitors in the global high-speed railway market. Japan’s Shinkansen started operating domestically in 1964, when it became the world’s first high-speed rail system in commercial use. It is also the safest railway, without a fatal accident on record.
China’s first high-speed railway started operation in 2008 between Beijing and Tianjin. The country operates the world’s longest high-speed rail network, from the northeast, where temperatures can fall to -30 degrees centigrade, to the south, where temperatures can go above 40 degrees. But an accident on a high-speed rail line in Wenzhou, Zhejiang province in July 2011, which killed at least 30 passengers and injured nearly 300, cast a shadow over the safety of China’s high-speed rail industry.
[h=4]
One checkpoint, two systems makes sense for high-speed rail linking Hong Kong to Guangzhou
[/h] “In a developing country like Bangladesh, we often prefer buying Japanese products and durables,” Paul of the Central Bank of Bangladesh said.
“The most pressing reason is Japan’s high quality control and constant pursuit of excellence. Private ownership by default makes these attributes happen. I wonder how China will compete with Japan or the US in the race for quality and excellence when private incentives are heavily absent in any state-owned enterprises.”

China’s push for its bullet trains to gain a wider global presence has suffered setbacks in countries such as Venezuela, Mexico and Thailand.
“China needs more bottom-up research and communication with host countries. It requires long-term and careful planning for overseas investment. And its diplomatic policies should have a long-term perspective,” Li Yanfei, an economist in Jakarta with the Economic Research Institute for Asean and East Asia, said.
[h=4]
Delayed projects- from bridge to high-speed rail- a blot on Hong Kong-mainland China cooperation
[/h] The most recent setback was the US company XpressWest’s termination of its contract with China Railway International for a high-speed railway connecting Las Vegas and Los Angeles.
“Too many factors are *involved in the setbacks of high-speed rail exports. Usually problems are something unrelated to the production, such as the terms of loans, level of interest rates and whether buyers can offer sovereign guarantees,” an executive at the CRRC headquarters said.
Huang Rihan, a researcher at the Centre for China and Globalisation, said power plays on the global stage were inevitable.
“The overseas high-speed railway competitions – such as the one between China and Japan – are not only market-oriented *behaviour, they also involve *politics,” said Huang.
[h=4]
After dumping plans for high-speed rail line, Indonesia wants bids from China and Japan for a medium-speed rail project
[/h] Premier Li Keqiang and Japan’s Prime Minister Shinzo Abe are both well-known for promoting high-speed rail technology during visits overseas.
“But Japan is more cautious and cares more about the profitability of overseas high-speed railway projects. China, sometimes, is willing to tolerate a certain amount of economic losses on projects that have symbolic significance,” Huang said.
The frequency of the trains, as well as the population density along the lines, should be taken into account, said Chu Yin, an associate professor with the University of International Relations.
“That a high-speed railway suits China does not mean it is suitable for the world,” Chu said.
Both Huang and Chu suggested talks on overseas projects be kept low profile. “It would be better that, domestically, we do not overstate any deal, otherwise it gives bargaining power to overseas buyers.”
 

Slim_10_Sg

Alfrescian
Loyal
In the big developments and quality and comfort and prices, Chinese are the very clear winner already, and Japan is decaying and fading out.

In the bullet train business, I am a user of both system Chinese & Japan. Chinese is clearly higher quality, comfort and more automated & convenient, also cost less than Japanese.
 

Maximuz

Alfrescian
Loyal
Here's my clumsy stab at it:

- Background: Shortly after Japan was forcibly pried open to international trade in the 1850's, both the Brits and the Americans were surprised to find the Japanese to be honest, upright, courteous, and clean. This was in stark contrast to Chinese industry and the Chinese as a race, both of which they were already familiar with: dishonest, corrupt, conniving, and unhygienic. So even before the Cultural Revolution (remember, this is the 1850's), there is already a marked split in how both cultures conduct themselves.

- Of course, nobody knows what the hell was going on in isolationist Japan between the 1600's and 1853, apart from the ports of Nagasaki where only the Dutch, the Koreans, the Chinese, and the Okinawans were allowed trade. It has to be said though, that the "ethos" of Shintoism, together with its later syncretism with Buddhism and Confucianism, has already held sway for about a thousand (yes, thousand) years before 1600.

- This however, is problematic. We're discussing why the Japanese ethic is towards high-quality endeavour as opposed to the Chinese-fuckall, and the syncretised Shintoism holds no clue other than one tenet of taking "pride in your work." Don't get me wrong, most of the societal norms take cue from the Shinto-Buddhist notions of not-being-a-pain-in-the-ass, "for the greater good," self-remonstration, etc etc. But it still doesn't address the Japanese tendency toward high-quality or highly creative production.

- This ostensibly brings us to what many consider the fuel for innovation: capital. Operation Golden Lily, also popularly known as Yamashita's Gold, was a systematic stripping of Southeast Asia's gold to be shipped back to Japan (giant gold statues of the Buddha were melted down in Cambodia for instance. Actually, even trivial things like gold-tipped pens were smelted), and most of the gold bars made it back to Japan. As a sidenote, a good chunk was allegedly stored in the Philippines, and Ferdinand Marcos allegedly took it for himself, after duping a hapless gold hunter. The Marcos bit is an allegation, but Ops Golden Lily was real.

- The gold after WW2 was the true fuel for the worn-out "Japan's miraculous post-war recovery," but I have an additional bit to add here: an engineer friend of mine told me that technological advances, especially in the field of electronics (i.e, Sony transistor radio) were largely due to the Japanese patent office receiving craploads of low-quality, useless patent applications such as wireless data transmission with a working distance of 5mm, and the government harshly told the research institutes to get their shit together or have their (gold-backed) funding cut. This was, according to my friend, when Japanese industry (or the electronics sector at least) bucked up their ideas and started becoming world dominators.

These are the bits of pieces that I have, and of course I'm dissatisfied because I can't figure out why the Japanese were already doing things very differently even before 1853. We were the Meat Puppets to their Nirvana, the Beatles to their Oasis, the senpai to their kohai (lit. 后辈). Heck, Hokkien was the court dialect in the Tang Dynasty (look it up if you don't believe me) and many Japanese pronunciations of the same thing are similar, and even a few words are practically identical: "shimbun," "sekai," "sensei."

My tiny assumption, after wading through all this mess, is two-fold. The first bit is on the tonal qualities of varying languages, which is commonly expressed by people saying Cantonese is more sing-songy while Hokkien is more guttural (also see the harmonic debate of 432 vs 440hz on the human psyche). The second bit is with a discovery made by, ironically, a Japanese gentleman who wrote words like "hate," "love," "generosity," and etc on pieces of paper, which were then placed in separate beakers of water. The water was then frozen and when he then started taking molecular pictures, he found wildly-varying colours and shapes depending on what word was placed in the water (again, this can be looked up).

And so I submit to you, in my estimation, that the tonal language and frequency first affects water (of which we're 70% composed of), leading to the formation of "words," or "ideals," or "concepts," which in turn gets shaped by the ethos of the age, and which in turn informs the tonal language again. Could it be the other way round in this circle? I don't know, this is all conjecture. The one defense I can put up for this hypothesis is how sometimes, certain languages are better for expressing rage (Hokkien for us), and how for example, a raving Spaniard sounds much more menacing than a raving Frenchman. And also, why do Arabs, even while relaxed (watch youtube videos) speak as if they're ready for a life of frontier brinksmanship? Does the environment shape their language, or does their language shape their environment?

Ok that's it from me.
 
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