My theory on why the 2 Asshole Capts threw 6 instead of 2 smoke grenades

[Papsmearer]

This is going back to my SAF days many moons ago. Usually when in training, you are told to draw out X amount of ammo and such not. In many instances, the men are instructed to use all the ammo up. Each exercise is prescribed a certain amount and if you do not use it all up, it could be interpreted as you were skiving during the exercise. Many men I know simply fired a few rounds and the buried the rest of the live ammo in the ground so that they don't have to spend too much time cleaning their weapons from excessive fouling caused by many rounds being fired. As the same time, ammo was discouraged to be returned to the ammo dump or storage. Mostly because once the ammo has been issued and out in the field, it could be returned covered in m&d, or might have damaged on it that the ammo men did not notice. Also it throws off the ammo count in the storage and in real pain in the ass for those storemen receiving it. therefore, all units are usually told to EXPEND ALL AMMO ISSUED for training.

My guess was that this particular batch of men going through the training was nearing the end of the day. there were extra smoke grenades left over and because these 2 Capts did not want their instructors to bother with returning unused smoke grenades, they decided to expend it all. And as a result, the extra smoke overwhelmed the recruit and killed him. In other words, laziness on the part of the instructors contributed to his death. otherwise there is no other explanation as to why 2 Capts who know the SOP to be 2 grenades for no reason threw 6. I don't believe this question was ever asked during the lawsuit and directed at the Capts. i.e. "Why did you throw 6 instead of 3 smoke grenades?" Anyway, that is just my 2 cents theory.

 

[tanwahtiu]

Bro, you are spot on. good forensic investigation work.

Sinkie lawyers are too afraid to whack PAP when comes to government vs people case.

This are the types of country Singapore is under PAP, the dictator and bully political party which 70% want them to lead every GE.

Your sons or grandsons will have to serve shit NSF for PAP if the 70% still don't wake up.

Fuck PAP.

This is going back to my SAF days many moons ago. Usually when in training, you are told to draw out X amount of ammo and such not. In many instances, the men are instructed to use all the ammo up. Each exercise is prescribed a certain amount and if you do not use it all up, it could be interpreted as you were skiving during the exercise. Many men I know simply fired a few rounds and the buried the rest of the live ammo in the ground so that they don't have to spend too much time cleaning their weapons from excessive fouling caused by many rounds being fired. As the same time, ammo was discouraged to be returned to the ammo dump or storage. Mostly because once the ammo has been issued and out in the field, it could be returned covered in m&d, or might have damaged on it that the ammo men did not notice. Also it throws off the ammo count in the storage and in real pain in the ass for those storemen receiving it. therefore, all units are usually told to EXPEND ALL AMMO ISSUED for training.

My guess was that this particular batch of men going through the training was nearing the end of the day. there were extra smoke grenades left over and because these 2 Capts did not want their instructors to bother with returning unused smoke grenades, they decided to expend it all. And as a result, the extra smoke overwhelmed the recruit and killed him. In other words, laziness on the part of the instructors contributed to his death. otherwise there is no other explanation as to why 2 Capts who know the SOP to be 2 grenades for no reason threw 6. I don't believe this question was ever asked during the lawsuit and directed at the Capts. i.e. "Why did you throw 6 instead of 3 smoke grenades?" Anyway, that is just my 2 cents theory.

 

[maxxi]

Yeah i never wanted ny M 16 fouled up with so much carbon.

 

[Papsmearer]

Yeah i never wanted ny M 16 fouled up with so much carbon.

My question to you is "were you ever told or ordered to return all unused ammo back to the ammo man?"

 

[mojito]

You play sparklers before? Light one at a time is what we tell the kids. Light all at the same time damn shiok! Teehee!

 

[Leongsam]

Also it throws off the ammo count in the storage and in real pain in the ass for those storemen receiving it. therefore, all units are usually told to EXPEND ALL AMMO ISSUED for training.

No shit why don't you tell us something we don't know you twit. This practice has been followed since day one.

Extra smoke isn't something that just started happening in the last few years. We used to throw smoke like there was no tomorrow and nobody died.

This proves that the recent death was the fault of the soldier for hiding his allergies. If throwing more than 2 smoke grenades causes deaths, tens of thousands of soldiers would have died over the years.

When we did our training the smoke was so thick we couldn't see a damned thing in any direction but my platoon all felt fine. In fact I can remember booking out and having a great time with my platoon mates after we had been subjected to thick smoke for the best part of the day. We felt great. No after effects whatsoever.

If an army is made up soldiers who can't handle thick smoke, they might as well pack their bags and wave the white flag. The enemy doesn't need bullets all they need to invade Singapore is to light ciggies and blow smoke in the faces of our soldiers.

 

[jw5]

We used to throw smoke like there was no tomorrow and nobody died.

You are still doing that everyday in this forum.

 

[Leongsam]

You are still doing that everyday in this forum.

Exactly. No matter what sort of smoke is thrown 99.99% of us can handle it. Only a very small percentage succumb because of undisclosed or undetected medical or mental issues.

You can't have an army that caters to the lowest common denominator. You need tough training to separate the men from the boys and that includes lots and lots of smoke, noise, stress and danger.

 

[Sideswipe]

Exactly. No matter what sort of smoke is thrown 99.99% of us can handle it. Only a very small percentage succumb because of undisclosed or undetected medical or mental issues.

You can't have an army that caters to the lowest common denominator. You need tough training to separate the men from the boys and that includes lots and lots of smoke, noise, stress and danger.

if you disregard the SOP, and something terrible happens like the above incident, you of course have to take responsibility for it, whether or not it's an one-off incident and wouldn't happen 99.99% of the time. otherwise don't put 2 smoke grenades in the SOP, just put "as deemed fit", can throw as many of them as possible without bearing any consequences.

 

[Leongsam]

if you disregard the SOP, and something terrible happens like the above incident, you of course have to take responsibility for it, whether or not it's an one-off incident and wouldn't happen 99.99% of the time. otherwise don't put 2 smoke grenades in the SOP, just put "as deemed fit", can throw as many of them as possible without bearing any consequences.

Responsibility was taken and disciplinary action was meted out in accordance with military law.

However to allow some two bit civilians to threaten military officers with a civil lawsuits when all they are trying to do is to build a competent fighting force would be absolutely ridiculous and totally out of proportion to the offense they committed in adding a few more smoke grenades to an exercise... something all of us have been doing since time immemorial.

Supposing you were driving at 55kph in 50kph zone. A child runs out on the road, you hit the brakes but fail to stop in time. The child dies as a result.

You are charged with careless driving causing death and lose your license for 6 months and fined appropriately.

The parents of the child then sue you for $1 million because you were not following the speed limit. Would you willingly accept liability and pay up? After all if only you had been driving at or under the speed limit you might have been able to stop in time so the parents vehemently insist it is your fault.

To use your words "if you disregard the speed limit and something terrible happens like the above incident, you of course have to take responsibility for it".

 

[maxxi]

"My question to you is "were you ever told or ordered to return all unused ammo back to the ammo man?"

Lets just say old soldier know what to do to make everyone's life easier.

And we know how to 'survive'.

 

[virus]

Yeah i never wanted ny M 16 fouled up with so much carbon.

you also buried your blanks?

 

[Leongsam]

Yeah i never wanted ny M 16 fouled up with so much carbon.

There was a simple solution to that. All my trainees were ordered to start any exercise involving blanks by firing off one magazine before the commencement of exercise.

There was little point trying to keep their barrels clean after that so the blanks were always used up.

 

[Papsmearer]

Extra smoke isn't something that just started happening in the last few years. We used to throw smoke like there was no tomorrow and nobody died.

.

But look at the long term effects on you. You ended being a PAP porlumpar cock sucker and an asshole. dare to still say the smoke did not affect you?

 

[Papsmearer]

Exactly. No matter what sort of smoke is thrown 99.99% of us can handle it. Only a very small percentage succumb because of undisclosed or undetected medical or mental issues.

You can't have an army that caters to the lowest common denominator. You need tough training to separate the men from the boys and that includes lots and lots of smoke, noise, stress and danger.

But the kid and even the medical staff did indicate he was an asthmatic at the initial intake. So, I don't know what shit you are talking.

 

[Papsmearer]

"My question to you is "were you ever told or ordered to return all unused ammo back to the ammo man?"

Lets just say old soldier know what to do to make everyone's life easier.

And we know how to 'survive'.

That's what I meant. No one returns anything to the ammo dump. Strongly frowned on.

 

[Leongsam]

But the kid and even the medical staff did indicate he was an asthmatic at the initial intake. So, I don't know what shit you are talking.

It is not the training or the safety officer's call when it comes to medical conditions.

When I was a trainer in SAFTI the fact that all the trainees in my charge had been certified PES1 was my license to put them through the paces.

If the soldier concerned was unfit for combat training I would expect the medical board to determine this fact and keep him away from any combat courses I was conducting.

Every time I conducted a lesson there were always a bunch of retards with various excuses sitting on the sidelines or back in barracks. Excused boots, excused rifle, excused SBO, FBO etc. The list was endless. Not once did I haul any of these characters up and force them do something they had been declared medically unfit to perform.

However those before me with no official medical excuses were deemed to be fit enough for me to torture. If I had to do my own medical tests on every soldier the whole system would cease to function.

 

[maxxi]

COI says cause of death was 'allergic reaction to Zc'.

Asthmatic condition no relevance .

 

[Leongsam]

COI says cause of death was 'allergic reaction to Zc'.

Asthmatic condition no relevance .

Had his parents sent him for allergy tests when he was young this chap would still be alive today. The parents should be sued for being irresponsible.

 

[shittypore]

You are still doing that everyday in this forum.

Thats wat he's paid to do for PAP since his Sinkie days.