The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it

[Leongsam]

It is SOP ,no ?

What if the soldier dies during training because he is sick and is not fit to handle the rigors of training ?

Its a risk that society has to learn to live with. Life is never risk free. People die daily for a whole host of reasons and military training is one of them.

 

[Leongsam]

"...They are also used by other militaries and agencies such as the United States and the Republic of Korea militaries because in acceptable concentrations of exposure, these smoke grenades are safe. Lung injury following exposure to zinc chloride fumes, and even deaths, have been reported in international literature but the numbers are few and mainly occur after exposure to high concentrations of zinc chloride fumes..."

My point exactly the risk is so low that it does not need to be mitigated. A soldier faces a bigger risk of dying while commuting to and from camp.

When I was in SAFTI nobody died from smoke grenades but 2 guys died in road accidents. Another soldier was beaten up outside a geylang bar and suffered permanent hearing loss.

Perhaps MINDEF should not allow soldiers to book out for 2 years to keep them safe from the perils of the real world beyond the safety of a military barrack.

 

[Wunderfool]

Its a risk that society has to learn to live with. Life is never risk free. People die daily for a whole host of reasons and military training is one of them.

At least they die knowing the risks and they go in with their eyes open. It's like going to war... You don't bluff your soldiers that they can come back alive when you know they can't even make it now.

 

[Leongsam]

At least they die knowing the risks and they go in with their eyes open. It's like going to war... You don't bluff your soldiers that they can come back alive when you know they can't even make it now.

No soldier is ever told they will come back alive. They are told that they are dying for their country. I knew the risks of military training so too should the rest male sinkie population unless you're suggesting they're all too dumb nowadays to work that out for themselves.

 

[yahoo55]

During my NS time, the golden rule in the army to cover backside is to always follow the regulations. Don't fucking ge khiang and chao on, just serve the 2.5 years and fuck off. Chao on officers who make lives shit for NSFs were despised.

The two dumbfuck, chao on regular officers went to break the regulations and exposed their backsides to trouble. Then shit hits the fan when it caused the death of a NSF. The dumbfuck officers have only themselves to blame for their trouble and should face the consequences.

During my time, the officers and NCOs in my unit all know the golden rule to cover backside and avoid trouble, how come these dumbfuck officers don't know?

 

[Wunderfool]

No soldier is ever told they will come back alive. They are told that they are dying for their country. I knew the risks of military training so too should the rest male sinkie population unless you're suggesting they're all too dumb nowadays to work that out for themselves.

These days , the soldiers we have are different... You are from the old school. You can take the shit.

The soldiers we have today are mummy's boys. A little illness here and there... and they go down. A little pressure here and there.. and they jump down.

So, the army has to have a different tack... or else all the mummies will be camping outside the Ministry demanding for justice.

And if they are seriously not ready for war , do you still send them for war ... and ask them to die for their country ?

 

[Leongsam]

During my NS time, the golden rule in the army to cover backside is to always follow the regulations. Don't fucking ge khiang and chao on, just serve the 2.5 years and fuck off. Chao on officers who make lives shit for NSFs were despised.

I don't know when your time was but during my time nobody gave a shit about regulations. 5 km runs could become 8 km runs just because the OC felt that the men were not taking training seriously.

Punishments involved 2 hours of drill in the mid day sun with no food or water.

Real soldiers handle it with grit and determination. Sinkies nowadays seem to spineless and ball less. Tonychat has been right all along.

 

[Leongsam]

These days , the soldiers we have are different... You are from the old school. You can take the shit.

The soldiers we have today are mummy's boys. A little illness here and there... and they go down. A little pressure here and there.. and they jump down.

So, the army has to have a different tack... or else all the mummies will be camping outside the Ministry demanding for justice.

And if they are seriously not ready for war , do you still send them for war ... and ask them to die for their country ?

Like I said earlier if war breaks out send the girl guides instead they're probably tougher than the average sinkie male.

 

[Wunderfool]

Like I said earlier if war breaks out send the girl guides instead they're probably tougher than the average sinkie male.

hahaha ... If war breaks out, you bet the elites will be the first to fly out ... I read it somewhere.

 

[PTADER]

My point exactly the risk is so low that it does not need to be mitigated. A soldier faces a bigger risk of dying while commuting to and from camp.

Here's the quote again:

"...They are also used by other militaries and agencies such as the United States and the Republic of Korea militaries because in acceptable concentrations of exposure, these smoke grenades are safe. Lung injury following exposure to zinc chloride fumes, and even deaths, have been reported in international literature but the numbers are few and mainly occur after exposure to high concentrations of zinc chloride fumes..."

Which part of the quote that says that smoke grenades are "safe" in "acceptable concentrations" and basically unsafe in "high concentrations" did you find too difficult to understand???

 

[Leongsam]

Here's the quote again:

"...They are also used by other militaries and agencies such as the United States and the Republic of Korea militaries because in acceptable concentrations of exposure, these smoke grenades are safe. Lung injury following exposure to zinc chloride fumes, and even deaths, have been reported in international literature but the numbers are few and mainly occur after exposure to high concentrations of zinc chloride fumes..."

Which part of the quote that says that smoke grenades are "safe" in "acceptable concentrations" and basically unsafe in "high concentrations" did you find too difficult to understand???

it merely states the obvious oxygen is dangerous in high concentrations too.

 

[PTADER]

it merely states the obvious oxygen is dangerous in high concentrations too.

It doesn't just state the obvious. It quantifies it too with the stated 10/20 metre safety rule as opposed to your "anything goes" approach.

When you cycle on the roads the next time around, why don't you adopt your "anything goes" approach when you are on the roads and see how long you can last?

 

[yahoo55]

I served 25 years ago and I had completed my long reservist cycle. We had rifle PT, log PT, long runs and drills and tough physical training in the field under the hot sun etc.. but those were within regulations.

The officers and NCOs in my active unit and my reservist unit all know the golden rule of SAF, to follow always regulations to cover backside. it's not worth getting into shit for breaking regulations, especially for regulars as it could affect their ricebowl and career. NS slaves just want to serve their time peacefully and fuck off, it's not worth ruining your life getting seriously injured or die in NS, and the fucking compensation is so pathetic.

 

[PTADER]

The officers and NCOs in my active unit and my reservist unit all know the golden rule of SAF, to follow always regulations to cover backside. it's not worth getting into shit for breaking regulations, especially for regulars as it could affect their ricebowl and career.

It's not only just to cover backside which is the culture of the SAF but how you have to live with yourself knowing that you have snuffed the life out of the chap "loaned" to you by his parents for NS.

If it is just an accident where the guy himself trip on the stairs going up the second floor, knocks his head and dies, it's a different matter. This was a needless death that occurred through sheer irresponsibility and negligence on the part of the conducting officer, safety officer and supervising officer whose name, for some reason, has not been mentioned.

 

[frenchbriefs]

No soldier is ever told they will come back alive. They are told that they are dying for their country. I knew the risks of military training so too should the rest male sinkie population unless you're suggesting they're all too dumb nowadays to work that out for themselves.

u are so full of shit,spouting that rambo shit....when has singapore ever been at the threat of war?u talk about ur oldschool NS enlistment as though u are being conscipted to fight at the frontlines of world war two and u arrive at the scene of stalingrad to see smoke everywhere and entire bombed out ruins across the skyline as far as the eye could see and thousands of dead and wounded bodies.....what a load of crock......u guys were probably thinking how u could chao keng as much as u can and get over it with as little pain as possible......well let me tell u this,99 percent of the ns men in their 40s and 50s all the middle aged sinkies uncles and ah peks who served NS twenty,thirty years ago are still around in singapore and all of them are still as balless and they were the day they were born.none of them even have the guts to hold up a sign and protest let alone charge into a hail of enemy bullets in order to secure a objectives with their flesh and bones.

u talk about having a death wish but the only thing uv done is ride ur seatless bike on a flat road or a 10 degree incline up a hill......iv never seen u riding a bmx down a 45 degree mountain slope on a path thats 20 cm wide where any wrong move u will go plunging over the side of the mountain like one of them crazy youtube videos......or better yet like the movie hurt locker go volunteer to be a bomb defusal squad in iraq.

 

[sleaguepunter]

I don't know when your time was but during my time nobody gave a shit about regulations. 5 km runs could become 8 km runs just because the OC felt that the men were not taking training seriously.

Punishments involved 2 hours of drill in the mid day sun with no food or water.

Real soldiers handle it with grit and determination. Sinkies nowadays seem to spineless and ball less. Tonychat has been right all along.

in 97, my outgoing CO conduct his last field training with our company (dunno why), it was a night training. All the men dunno what was it about as it an unscheduled training as it not in the training program or even the RO. tonners roll out of gedong and drop us somewhere near lim chu kang private range/gun club. Was surprised to see CO there in full field gear and a M16carbine with battalion S3 similarly attire. CO brief us it will be chickenfeed and objective only 2klick away. Most men relieve thinking should be a short walk and can get back to bed by 0200hr because don't think CO will want hardship. We started at 2100hr and exercise only completed at 0700hr next day. We had no idea where we went through but it one of the toughest trek I ever had as we went into pitch black terrain where men has to grab hold the sbo of the guy in front so as don't break rank as really cannot see, cross canals/streams that are chest level of brown muddy water and there a part where it so muddy troopers need help from mates to pull them out. despite kenna conned by the CO, nobody was piss as the CO conduct debrief after the assault. CO even gave his permission for smokers to light up during debrief and pass his own ciggies to smokers of the company which pissed of the CSM who was a health Nazi.

 

[Leongsam]

It's not only just to cover backside which is the culture of the SAF but how you have to live with yourself knowing that you have snuffed the life out of the chap "loaned" to you by his parents for NS.

If it is just an accident where the guy himself trip on the stairs going up the second floor, knocks his head and dies, it's a different matter. This was a needless death that occurred through sheer irresponsibility and negligence on the part of the conducting officer, safety officer and supervising officer whose name, for some reason, has not been mentioned.

Training has be tougher than actual combat. This will ensure that soldiers who are sent to war can withstand the heat of battle.

Should conflict erupt there'll be a lot more than 6 smoke grenades thrown. When you depend on smoke to save your life you're going to throw as much as is necessary.

It is better for this asthma guy to kick the bucket now rather than when he's needed in real battle. Imagine what would happen to a section who's depending on him to provide covering fire while they charge up a hill. They throw a bunch of smoke grenades and the twit goes into convulsions and dies instead of performing his assigned task of keeping the enemy at bay.

Instead of one dead soldier the whole section could be wiped out all because one asthmatic whose condition was not revealed during training as a result of lame safety regulations that had training unrealistically soft and easy.

It is better to sacrifice one solder during peacetime if it means savings the lives of 8 or more in future combat.

 

[Leongsam]

u are so full of shit,spouting that rambo shit....when has singapore ever been at the threat of war?u talk about ur oldschool NS enlistment as though u are being conscipted to fight at the frontlines of world war two and u arrive at the scene of stalingrad to see smoke everywhere and entire bombed out ruins across the skyline as far as the eye could see and thousands of dead and wounded bodies.....what a load of crock......u guys were probably thinking how u could chao keng as much as u can and get over it with as little pain as possible......well let me tell u this,99 percent of the ns men in their 40s and 50s all the middle aged sinkies uncles and ah peks who served NS twenty,thirty years ago are still around in singapore and all of them are still as balless and they were the day they were born.none of them even have the guts to hold up a sign and protest let alone charge into a hail of enemy bullets in order to secure a objectives with their flesh and bones.

u talk about having a death wish but the only thing uv done is ride ur seatless bike on a flat road or a 10 degree incline up a hill......iv never seen u riding a bmx down a 45 degree mountain slope on a path thats 20 cm wide where any wrong move u will go plunging over the side of the mountain like one of them crazy youtube videos......or better yet like the movie hurt locker go volunteer to be a bomb defusal squad in iraq.

You obviously watch too many Rambo movies. Real warfare isn't like that.

And I'll tell you why most old farts aren't protesting it's because they appreciate what the PAP has done for them. They grew up shitting in a bucket shared by 50 other people and the PAP transformed their lives into what it is today.

 

[frenchbriefs]

You obviously watch too many Rambo movies. Real warfare isn't like that.

And I'll tell you why most old farts aren't protesting it's because they appreciate what the PAP has done for them. They grew up shitting in a bucket shared by 50 other people and the PAP transformed their lives into what it is today.

rambo is old school make believe for old farts like u,i watch the modern warfare style now,black hawk down,hurt locker,green zone and all the the endless flow of iraq crap movies and terrorist plots and mass weapons of destruction in america and journalistic exposes.

 

[sleaguepunter]

It's not only just to cover backside which is the culture of the SAF but how you have to live with yourself knowing that you have snuffed the life out of the chap "loaned" to you by his parents for NS.

If it is just an accident where the guy himself trip on the stairs going up the second floor, knocks his head and dies, it's a different matter. This was a needless death that occurred through sheer irresponsibility and negligence on the part of the conducting officer, safety officer and supervising officer whose name, for some reason, has not been mentioned.

I doubt the parents will get anything out of the govt. I seen with my own eye a recruit with scholarship waiting for him after NS become a slightly retard because heat stroke fried his brain during late afternoon physical training conducted by PTI. It not the PTI fault but the platoon PC who single out the recruit as a chaokeng and grill the recruit personally. the recruit already voice out during fall in to be not feeling well but was ignore and order to get back in rank. He suffer fits just 200m from finishing line while the chao keeling PC stared in shock. it was a delta company PC/WO who shove his hand into the recruit mouth to stop him from biting his own tongue. First time see helievac by super puma in less than 15days of enlistment. We haven't even have our first book out yet already so happening. Nobody was punished for it despite my whole platoon protest to the welfare officer and we were threatened with punishment if we don't stop protesting.

because of this experience, I told myself that I rather be charged than follow idiotic orders that are dangerous.