Disband th SAF they are useless Waste of $$$$$$$$$$ Start Militancy

[lend me your wife]

The recent riots at Singapore's "Little India" may reflect the challenges and probable weaknesses of the Singapore Police Force, and has nothing to do with the SAF. Although I served my full time NS and reservist obligations decades ago, I believe that the SAF is not incompetent, but able, willing and ready to defend Singapore. Perhaps, we should not allege that the SAF is "not good", until the time to render your and our comments and "judgment"

SAF and SPF have IDENTICAL WEAKNESSES stamping from exactly the same root.

Just a slight comparison is SAF are 100% (untruely) Singaporean citizens and SPF are served by loads of Malaysian PRs. SAF don't have PRs, but are loads of ex-PRs becoming SG citizens.

Commanders are similar scholars, same PAP ministers and sernior government officials making same kind of fucked up policies and training doctrincts.

Can never dream that SAF does not have the SPF problems.

 

[Papsmearer]

SAF and SPF have IDENTICAL WEAKNESSES stamping from exactly the same root.

Just a slight comparison is SAF are 100% (untruely) Singaporean citizens and SPF are served by loads of Malaysian PRs. SAF don't have PRs, but are loads of ex-PRs becoming SG citizens.

Commanders are similar scholars, same PAP ministers and sernior government officials making same kind of fucked up policies and training doctrincts.

Can never dream that SAF does not have the SPF problems.

U are 100% right. If one column of malaysian tanks drove across the causeway tomorrow, you will see the same SPF issues happening in the SAF. namely, paralysis at the top ranks, confusion, and lack of initiative and no one want to take action for fear of fuck up. They will drive all the way to the istana gates before one Leopard tank rolls out of camp.

 

[Papsmearer]

I am not delusional.

You have a point re: trained at Sandhurst and West Point (only at Officer Cadet level).

May be not in the past 2 decades, but during my time, there was a schoolmate of mine, who was a few years my senior (Jerry Soh), who was trained at Sandhurst, who probably retired as a Colonel (OK, you have a point, not a general).

I assume that the generals in the SAF, including those Commandos who are BG's, are well trained in tactics and at Command and Staff College.

Although I am unable to vouch that the former CDS, Desmond Kuek, is or is not a competent general, he was the top officer at the Battalion Tactics Course.

With respect, even I who as a NSF, only trained up to SATO level, and thus may be supposedly "competent" up to Company level or Battalion Staff Officer level, WILL NOT order an unsupported frontal assault into (at) prepared and fortified enemy positions. There is no question, that any fortified enemy positions need to be "softened" by aerial and field level artillery bombardment. Or may be, I am outdated.

There are enough non-Scholar generals in the SAF.

In the art of warfare, there is no substitute for actual combat experience. Every single professional army will tell you that. In air warfare, if you can survive the first few missions, you have a good chance of surviving in the long term. Since Singapore has not fought any wars, the next best thing to do is to learn from people with actual combat experience. In sandhurst and west point, u have these sort of people all around you, as your instructors, as your surpervisors, etc. They have fought in Astan, Iraq etc. They impart their knowledge and experience to the cadets. Therefore, your point about SAF generals going thru Command and Staff College is irrelevant. Any of these instructors there actually have combat experience or not? In a real war, will all the scholar generals (both active and RET) stay out of the way of the really professional soldiers in the SAF (eg the Colonel friend you mentioned) and let them do their jobs? I don't think so. They outrank these Colonels and LTCs, and I don't see them seating quietly in the corner while the real soldiers plot the war. Therefore, this will result in a very bad outcome no matter how patriotic and willing to fight a sinkie can be.

 

[Papsmearer]

Hey, buddy, you are right.

US is handicapped when it comes to fighting the islamic militants. See how Supremo Deng crushed the protestors with his tanks in China. US unlikely to do it the same way. Also, see how the Chinese police shot the militants in Xinjiang when they tried to hack the police with parangs. In sinkie land, the police would probably run away.

If SPF had put down the riot in Little India with full force, none of the foreigners would dare to behave aggressively like those ang mohs who went around to hantam sinkies.

The problem is that FTs and new comers do not fear the police. Locals semi fear the police. But FTs not at all. When they fear the police, they will start respecting them, and hence start behaving.

 

[Papsmearer]

Emphasis in red font added.
I agree.
I would rather see the SPF use sufficient force, when they saw the rioters turn over and burn their motor vehicles.
Force include using their batons or night sticks, and small arms to enforce "order" or to make it less likely for more rioters to join the "brave" individuals.

That's useless, what is "sufficient force"? The police should have been using overwhelming force, brutal suppressive force, no holds barred force. Not "sufficient force". U want to see rioters bleeding from the head after getting whacked by the police. U want to see rioters with broken legs, broken arms, and blood all over them. than these images will bestow fear about the police. Instead, u see pictures that show the police bleeding. how stupid.

 

[steffychun]

asshole who zapped me!

 

[Papsmearer]

asshole who zapped me!

Its not me, asshole back to u.

 

[Charlie99]

In the art of warfare, there is no substitute for actual combat experience. Every single professional army will tell you that. In air warfare, if you can survive the first few missions, you have a good chance of surviving in the long term. Since Singapore has not fought any wars, the next best thing to do is to learn from people with actual combat experience. In sandhurst and west point, u have these sort of people all around you, as your instructors, as your surpervisors, etc. They have fought in Astan, Iraq etc. They impart their knowledge and experience to the cadets. Therefore, your point about SAF generals going thru Command and Staff College is irrelevant. Any of these instructors there actually have combat experience or not? In a real war, will all the scholar generals (both active and RET) stay out of the way of the really professional soldiers in the SAF (eg the Colonel friend you mentioned) and let them do their jobs? I don't think so. They outrank these Colonels and LTCs, and I don't see them seating quietly in the corner while the real soldiers plot the war. Therefore, this will result in a very bad outcome no matter how patriotic and willing to fight a sinkie can be.

You have a point re: combat experience and experienced instructors at Sandhurst and West Point.

But I believe that a majority of the "scholar generals" attended and completed Command and Staff College at other countries, where the instructors had combat experience.

The scenario of another country's column of tanks rolling into the heart of Singapore without any response from the SAF or the command and control elements of the SAF will be paralysed, and that no one will make a decision, appears to be an unthinkable alternative, notwithstanding that the non-scholar senior officers will probably have to take orders from the many scholar generals (who are unlikely to be sitting quietly).

The morale and willingness of the Singaporeans should not be discouraged.

 

[frenchbriefs]

i agree disband the fucking SAF,disband NS,this country is a joke and its not worth protecting......issue an ultimatum to LHL,they can import all the foreigners they want but they must scrap NS.....once the foreign born population of singapore goes over 45% i see no point in defending this country.

 

[Papsmearer]

You have a point re: combat experience and experienced instructors at Sandhurst and West Point.

But I believe that a majority of the "scholar generals" attended and completed Command and Staff College at other countries, where the instructors had combat experience.

The scenario of another country's column of tanks rolling into the heart of Singapore without any response from the SAF or the command and control elements of the SAF will be paralysed, and that no one will make a decision, appears to be an unthinkable alternative, notwithstanding that the non-scholar senior officers will probably have to take orders from the many scholar generals (who are unlikely to be sitting quietly).

The morale and willingness of the Singaporeans should not be discouraged.

I have been on more standby duty than I care to remember. My unit was one of those that don't have malays and our instructors were Israeli trained. We were from top to NCO rank, professional soldiers, not one single SAF scholar general amongst our rank. At the slightest sign of trouble, we loaded up out tanks fully armed and equipped. Today will all the scholar generals running the SAF, these fucks wouldn't know danger until it bit them in the ass. Even with better intelligence equipment, I really don't see any decisive action by the higher ups. I give you one example. During the recent Little India riots, social medias was publicizing this all over the internet. There were many pictures almost instantly of police cars and ambulances on fire, Facebook and twitter all had these images. You can see flames and smoke from far away. It was obvious the police could not control it. Did MINDEF turn out the standby force? No. Why not? What if the riots had spread to other parts and what if it was a distraction and diversion before an actual enemy attack? MINDEF should have activated the standby infantry, armour, and arty units. The entire standby infantry unit should have been ready to move out in their 3 tonners after word of the riots broke. In case the Police cannot handle it and they need help. this did not happen because Scholar generals cannot see the potential implications of such a riot.

 

[Charlie99]

I have been on more standby duty than I care to remember. My unit was one of those that don't have malays and our instructors were Israeli trained. We were from top to NCO rank, professional soldiers, not one single SAF scholar general amongst our rank. At the slightest sign of trouble, we loaded up out tanks fully armed and equipped. Today will all the scholar generals running the SAF, these fucks wouldn't know danger until it bit them in the ass. Even with better intelligence equipment, I really don't see any decisive action by the higher ups. I give you one example. During the recent Little India riots, social medias was publicizing this all over the internet. There were many pictures almost instantly of police cars and ambulances on fire, Facebook and twitter all had these images. You can see flames and smoke from far away. It was obvious the police could not control it. Did MINDEF turn out the standby force? No. Why not? What if the riots had spread to other parts and what if it was a distraction and diversion before an actual enemy attack? MINDEF should have activated the standby infantry, armour, and arty units. The entire standby infantry unit should have been ready to move out in their 3 tonners after word of the riots broke. In case the Police cannot handle it and they need help. this did not happen because Scholar generals cannot see the potential implications of such a riot.

During my reservist training, I admired and respected an officer and gentleman (then MAJ Syed Ibrahim, who retired as LTC).

I agree with you that the SPF should have activated the MINDEF Ops Room, or the duty officer at MINDEF, should have activated the infantry, guards and armour unit, which were on standby, loaded with ammo and onto the motor vehicles, (if it was me on duty, I would asked those standby units to "form up" within a few minutes of the location of the "riots at Little India".

Sadly, and unfortunately, the SPF, took much longer than desired to activate its Special Ops Troopers, which should have been activated immediately, upon hearing of the "riots at Little India" and "form up" within a few minutes of the same location.

I was on standby on one or two occasions.

Thank you for your discussions with me. Salute from me, at the True North, Strong and Free.
Have a Blessed Sunday.

 

[Papsmearer]

During my reservist training, I admired and respected an officer and gentleman (then MAJ Syed Ibrahim, who retired as LTC).

I agree with you that the SPF should have activated the MINDEF Ops Room, or the duty officer at MINDEF, should have activated the infantry, guards and armour unit, which were on standby, loaded with ammo and onto the motor vehicles, (if it was me on duty, I would asked those standby units to "form up" within a few minutes of the location of the "riots at Little India".

Sadly, and unfortunately, the SPF, took much longer than desired to activate its Special Ops Troopers, which should have been activated immediately, upon hearing of the "riots at Little India" and "form up" within a few minutes of the same location.

I was on standby on one or two occasions.

Thank you for your discussions with me. Salute from me, at the True North, Strong and Free.
Have a Blessed Sunday.

To my knowledge, SPF does not have the authority to activate the Ops Room. If I recall, usually its the rank of a Major or higher in there that runs it. He can wait for a call from MINDEF to activate or on his own initiative, he can turn out the entire standby units. He had to be aware of the situation in Little India. Even individual formations can turn out their own standby force. we did that all the time to practice our speed. No reason why they cannot turn out the units, and sit on the parade ground the whole night waiting to move out. Its just no initiative. If I was at Armour Brigade Ops room that night of the riot, for sure I would have turned out the armour standby platoon. And have the crew by the tanks fully loaded and fueled the whole night. If the call doesn't come from MINDEF, than everyone goes back to sleep. Nothing breaks up a riot faster than a platoon of Leopard tanks rolling towards the rioters. I bet you the MINDEF Ops room were watching the riots on TV and eating fried chicken. Probably did not occur to them to do something.

 

[Charlie99]

To my knowledge, SPF does not have the authority to activate the Ops Room. If I recall, usually its the rank of a Major or higher in there that runs it. He can wait for a call from MINDEF to activate or on his own initiative, he can turn out the entire standby units. He had to be aware of the situation in Little India. Even individual formations can turn out their own standby force. we did that all the time to practice our speed. No reason why they cannot turn out the units, and sit on the parade ground the whole night waiting to move out. Its just no initiative. If I was at Armour Brigade Ops room that night of the riot, for sure I would have turned out the armour standby platoon. And have the crew by the tanks fully loaded and fueled the whole night. If the call doesn't come from MINDEF, than everyone goes back to sleep. Nothing breaks up a riot faster than a platoon of Leopard tanks rolling towards the rioters. I bet you the MINDEF Ops room were watching the riots on TV and eating fried chicken. Probably did not occur to them to do something.

Tanks and the "SHOCK EFFECT"

Your post should have been one of the questions which the Board of Inquiry should put to the SPF and its report.

What is the point of having a (SAFOS Minister) Co-ordinating Minister for Security and Home Affairs, when Singapore should and must have procedures to co-ordinate the SPF and SAF in matters similar to the "riots in Little India"

By the way, then vs then.

 

[Charlie99]

Tanks and the "SHOCK EFFECT"

Your post should have been one of the questions which the Board of Inquiry should put to the SPF and its report.

What is the point of having a (SAFOS Minister) Co-ordinating Minister for Security and Home Affairs, when Singapore should and must have procedures to co-ordinate the SPF and SAF in matters similar to the "riots in Little India"

By the way, then vs then.

Sorry, should be "than" vs 'then'

 

[neddy]

Why are we doing NS ? Who are we protecting ? :oIo:

NS = Pack NDay packs and Clean up party after major national events. Also for entertaining tourists at Change of Guards.

 

[sleaguepunter]

If I was at Armour Brigade Ops room that night of the riot, for sure I would have turned out the armour standby platoon. And have the crew by the tanks fully loaded and fueled the whole night. If the call doesn't come from MINDEF, than everyone goes back to sleep. Nothing breaks up a riot faster than a platoon of Leopard tanks rolling towards the rioters. I bet you the MINDEF Ops room were watching the riots on TV and eating fried chicken. Probably did not occur to them to do something.

uncle, u meant the 4NTM combat team huh? I tot minimium standby unit at least combat team level. I never done any platoon level standby during my stint in an AI company. if infantry role, then it 2NTM and the SM1 crews become riflemen too. forget whether live ammo was loaded in the tonner that inside the concentina wire enclosure..

no need Leo2 lah, just one AI combat team more than sufficient to send rioters running.

 

[frenchbriefs]

To my knowledge, SPF does not have the authority to activate the Ops Room. If I recall, usually its the rank of a Major or higher in there that runs it. He can wait for a call from MINDEF to activate or on his own initiative, he can turn out the entire standby units. He had to be aware of the situation in Little India. Even individual formations can turn out their own standby force. we did that all the time to practice our speed. No reason why they cannot turn out the units, and sit on the parade ground the whole night waiting to move out. Its just no initiative. If I was at Armour Brigade Ops room that night of the riot, for sure I would have turned out the armour standby platoon. And have the crew by the tanks fully loaded and fueled the whole night. If the call doesn't come from MINDEF, than everyone goes back to sleep. Nothing breaks up a riot faster than a platoon of Leopard tanks rolling towards the rioters. I bet you the MINDEF Ops room were watching the riots on TV and eating fried chicken. Probably did not occur to them to do something.

0:40 ukraine protestors obliterates tanks with molotov cocktails.....the protestors immediately hit it with 20 molotovs cocktails and the whole thing became a fireball.....i think the people inside were cooked alive....

anyway,a platoon of tanks is overkill,if it really comes to that,the protestors wont be playing around anymore,most likely they will be equipped with soviet rpgs......rpgs can take out most tanks.....and russian kornet 9M133 is designed to take out the heaviest main battle tanks.

[video=youtube;H8iLVd17MIY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8iLVd17MIY[/video]

 

[Papsmearer]

uncle, u meant the 4NTM combat team huh? I tot minimium standby unit at least combat team level. I never done any platoon level standby during my stint in an AI company. if infantry role, then it 2NTM and the SM1 crews become riflemen too. forget whether live ammo was loaded in the tonner that inside the concentina wire enclosure..

no need Leo2 lah, just one AI combat team more than sufficient to send rioters running.

U are 46SAR, right? 46 SAR standby is different from all the other infantry units. 46 SAR do standby as a combat team. But when an Infantry unit does standby, than an Armour platoon standbys with them too. But the Armour platoon stays in its own camp. Also, the Infantry unit will get an arty, and combat engineers standby unit to accompany them, but all stay in their respective camps. In real emergency, all support units will rendezvous with the infantry unit in a designated location. But for 46 SAR, the whole combat team will roll out, there is no Armour or arty support for 46 SAR. But SM1 crews should never be riflemen. That is a screwed up philosophy.

 

[sleaguepunter]

0:40 ukraine protestors obliterates tanks with molotov cocktails.....the protestors immediately hit it with 20 molotovs cocktails and the whole thing became a fireball.....i think the people inside were cooked alive....

that seems to ukraine mata version of the btr-60. this model famous to for engines to catch fire even without anyone throwing Molotov cocktails at it. the crew stupid enough to ram the barricades alone without support, they deserve to die lor.

 

[frenchbriefs]

[video=youtube;RzVEduKGUws]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzVEduKGUws[/video]