Political Implications of 6.9 Protests

[aurvandil]

The knowledge linking immigration to policy issues in housing, transport, inome inequality etc is a sophisticated one. As recent as GE2006, this was something know only to a selected few. Today, this knowledge is common place. The PAP is doing everything it can to stop the spread of this knowledge. The 2nd White Paper protest shows that the PAP is losing this fight.

When there is regime change via democratic elections, there is usually a defining issue which turns a generation against the old regime. In Malaysia, the issue is corruption. In Singapore, immigration is becoming this defining issue. More than anything, the May day rally shows that everything is on track for the PAP to lose its 2/3 majority in 2016.

In no small part the 6.9 million population issue are housing and transport issues.

Anyway there is nothing really wrong with what Goh Meng Seng is saying. The anti-PAP sentiment goes beyond support for opposition parties. There is a new player in the game, the extra-political, NGO-based faction. This goes beyond getting people into parliament, who's in whose party, etc.

Previously the SDP were perceived as being "Singaporeans don't do this. Singaporeans just don't protest. This Tak Boleh Tahan has nothing to do with our 'local culture' ". Things have changed rapidly since then. The thing about being too far ahead for your time is that eventually people are going to catch up with you.

 

[Tualan]

GMS,

What cock were you talking, Myself and 5 friends who are WP members , we were there on 1 MAY. You wanted to talk cock also talked wrongly.

 

[cheekenpie]

GMS care to clarify this as well? Worried no one read so must post here?

 

[cheekenpie]

GMS - why you suddenly backing GG again after you backstab him?

http://singsupplies.com/showthread.php?150935-Did-Goh-Meng-Seng-Sabo-Gilbert-Goh

 

[SgParent]

..........LLL and WP have actually admitted that they have not done much ground work in Punggol East since last GE. It is basically a contest of possibility of winning based solely on party branding and nothing else... not even about comparing between candidates.

Door knocking. LLL/WP covered 100% of PE SMC. Which other candidate had done that? Not even that rear-admirer White Scum newbie Koh !!!!

Until now you still can't get that idea into your thick skull ?????????????? No wonder you deserved to loss every election !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[SgParent]

............Between choosing Dr Koh and LLL, the heartlander decision is 110% clear and simple. No heartlander would pick LLL unless it is a protest vote against the party that Dr Koh represents. Only an abject idiot would vote for LLL. She is not even pretty, hard-working or smart. So, Goh Meng Seng in this instance is right, BUT then again, this revelation does not originate from him nor does it require rocket science for any impartial, politically removed person to realize this undeniable FACT.

Disagree.

After rear-admirer White Scum newbie Koh's numerous and wonderful own goals, managed in that short a campaign period, I think even my smallest grandkid could manage to win him by 5%.

 

[metalmickey]

The knowledge linking immigration to policy issues in housing, transport, inome inequality etc is a sophisticated one. As recent as GE2006, this was something know only to a selected few. Today, this knowledge is common place. The PAP is doing everything it can to stop the spread of this knowledge. The 2nd White Paper protest shows that the PAP is losing this fight.

When there is regime change via democratic elections, there is usually a defining issue which turns a generation against the old regime. In Malaysia, the issue is corruption. In Singapore, immigration is becoming this defining issue. More than anything, the May day rally shows that everything is on track for the PAP to lose its 2/3 majority in 2016.

OK - except that for Singapore, immigration is new, whereas corruption has always existed in Malaysia for decades. What really changed in Malaysia?

When I was walking into the GE 2011 polls it was my first time voting, and I thought that this was the last time I would go to the polls knowing that the PAP would be guaranteed a supermajority. After this, there will not be another election where the PAP is guaranteed one. I see that you have called it that the PAP will lose a supermajority.

 

[metalmickey]

Problem is other than WP, I don't see what branding other opposition parties have.

Let's think about the idea of branding. A brand is a hot iron to singe a pattern onto cattle so that cattle ranchers could identify whose cow belonged to whom. Branding is also something that reinforces the herd mentality. "Vote PAP and everything will be alright" or "Vote WP and everything will be alright"

To be sure, you do need some form of organisation in order to enter the political arena. And political parties do need to have some central organisation, and it should be a co-ordinated effort to get things done from within the confines of the establishment.

A protest movement is another beast entirely, and quite different from the political parties. It is something more spontaneous, more unruly, but more reflective of the immediate will of the people. The idea is to send a message, or communicate certain ideas with great but un-co-ordinated force. Protest movements have been known to topple governments, and if this happens they usually involve a very messy transition of power, because nobody really knows who's in charge. In a certain sense, protest movments are the most direct form of democracy, and it takes place outside established power structures.

A protest movement will never get into power. A political party aims to pull the levers of power. They are very different beasts, and to some extent there is some communication between those two, but in a limited sense. I think that it might not be 100% appropriate for political parties to get involved in protests. Yes, there are plenty of WP or SDP people in the protests, but most of them are there in their personal capacity, and there is no official participation.

Because the aim of WP / SDP is to get into power, and once they are in power, one day there will be protests movements against them. Political parties are the same, and it will be inappropriate for WP or SDP to get involved just as it is inappropriate for PAP to get involved.

 

[yellowarse]

So is branding important or not?

GMS is saying:

1. People are casting anti-PAP vote because angry with PAP
2. To cast anti-PAP vote, must choose 1 opposition party. Which one? The one with best branding - WP.
3. Quality of candidates not important in P-E BE.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Point 2 needs modification. Choose the one with best chance of winning, learning from Presidential Elections mistake

Goh Meng Seng

GMS is saying:

1. People are casting anti-PAP vote because angry with PAP
2. To cast anti-PAP vote, must choose 1 opposition party. Which one? The one with best branding - WP.
3. Quality of candidates not important in P-E BE.

 

[sleaguepunter]

Point 2 needs modification. Choose the one with best chance of winning, learning from Presidential Elections mistake

Goh Meng Seng

so what your stand?

you prefer PAP to retain PE seat because you want the voters to choose the candidate to be the highest educated, highest capabilities, highest whatever even thou the party the candidate represent is known to be a tyrant?

if u looking for a fair fight, one on one, mano vs mano, in a political contest, it show that you are out of your depth. In sport maybe can have fair fight but in other situations, the end justify the means.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Sometimes I feel that these Blue IB warriors are just too over-sensitive! Maybe even guilty-conscience!

I am simply putting up analysis based on facts and nothing else. When you are facing objective facts, you cannot deny that LLL isn't the best candidate in PEBE but she won. I only provide the plausible analysis and reasoning why this is so. Nothing more, nothing less.

First, it is not just about WP branding. It is a conflux of various factors and the most fundamental reason is anger. This anger is independent of all opposition parties, least WP but targeted at PAP. Voters want to draw blood from PAP, for whatever reasons and I would say the FT policy is one big bomb of anger.

Secondly, voters have learned from the Presidential Elections which they felt they have been cheated of the opportunity of throwing out PAP man. Thus, they are wiser, tactical voting to choose the choice that could have higher chance of winning, never mind who the party puts up as its candidate. WP happened to be the chosen one and this explain the swing, not only from PAP to WP, but also from Desmond to WP. Even if WP put a donkey up, it will win the PEBE. That is how angry voters are.

Thirdly, the two protests have confirmed that such anger is independent of any political parties other than the fault of PAP and least of WP. At least other parties like SDP and NSP, have important key individuals stood as speakers for the two protests and WP was no where in sight. Thus, it strengthen the view that the voters' anger is potentially as strong as a tsunami which could allow ALL opposition parties, not only WP, to ride on. It would mean that as long as there are no multi-corners fight for next GE, all opposition parties would have a HIGHER chance of winning seats and get into parliament. Of course, that include WP but WP will not be exclusive.

That is all I have said. If you want to extrapolate or let your imagination run wild, I cannot stop you from making up stories or insinuations.

Goh Meng Seng

so what your stand?

you prefer PAP to retain PE seat because you want the voters to choose the candidate to be the highest educated, highest capabilities, highest whatever even thou the party the candidate represent is known to be a tyrant?

if u looking for a fair fight, one on one, mano vs mano, in a political contest, it show that you are out of your depth. In sport maybe can have fair fight but in other situations, the end justify the means.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

If you are referring to PEBE alone, it is mainly party branding BUT this is not necessarily so.

Well, let's give yourself a bit of imagination, who will the voters vote if Nicole Seah was fielded under NSP?

Goh Meng Seng

How to chose? Based on party brand? So branding important or not?

LLL not best candidate according to you then who is? Say it out loud please.

 

[DEDEER]

Talk about going round in circles.

1) People will chose the best opposition candidate in MCF (quoted from Goh Meng Seng).

2) Who is the best? Never say. But say Lee Li Lian is not the best one. (also from GMS)

3) Branding is not important. (also from GMS)

4) Lee Li Lian win not because she is better than the rest, but because chose Workers' Party brand name. (again from GMS)

5) People chose the best opposition candidate which is supposed to be the best which happens NOT to be Lee Li Lian. Don't understand why people still chose her despite she not being the best opposition candidate. Cannot be because of Workers' Party brand because GMS say branding not important.

 

[DEDEER]

If you are referring to PEBE alone, it is mainly party branding BUT this is not necessarily so.

Well, let's give yourself a bit of imagination, who will the voters vote if Nicole Seah was fielded under NSP?

Goh Meng Seng

There is no IF in political contests... we could speculate or analyze but nobody will know the exact outcome until it was put forward as so.

But yes, in my view, that would be more or less the outcome due to the massive anger shown so far.

Goh Meng Seng

No 'if' in political contest. Want to find out then must go and stand.

So you admit party branding is a factor? Or not? So many got say like no say statement.

 

[aurvandil]

I wrote about what changed in another post. To recap, it is the same generational change occcuring in Singapore. The change is happening much quicker in Malaysia because their total fertility is at a healthy 2.4, allowing their equivalent of the P65 to gain demographic majority a good 10 years ahead of Singapore. Just as the PAP have stolen the future of young Singaporeans with their FT policy, BN has stolen the future of young Malaysians with their corrupt "Umno-putra" policies. Knowledge of this has spread like wildfire which is why I am quietly confident of regime change in Malaysia.

OK - except that for Singapore, immigration is new, whereas corruption has always existed in Malaysia for decades. What really changed in Malaysia?

When I was walking into the GE 2011 polls it was my first time voting, and I thought that this was the last time I would go to the polls knowing that the PAP would be guaranteed a supermajority. After this, there will not be another election where the PAP is guaranteed one. I see that you have called it that the PAP will lose a supermajority.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

You will have to have a broader mindset to understand the delicate difference between the various factors. I will not spell out specifics for you but I can only tell you that you are stuck with your partisan mindset, that is why you can't understand that there are more dimensions beyond your bias contention.

I didn't say branding is not important... in fact, some have interpreted that I said branding determines the outcome of PEBE.

Branding may be important BUT not the MOST or ONLY important factor in some instances. Just give you one interesting point, for example if you make comparison between Marine Parade vs Yishun or Moulmein Kallang. Which plays the most important factors? Obviously there are more factors influencing voters' choice other than mere party branding. That is why, in spite of the fact that NSP team with Nicole Seah in Marine Parade, facing a GIANT HEAVY Weight GCT, could still outperform WP's Yishun and MK team, which face weaker ministers like Yacoob. In such cases of comparisons, do you conclude to say NSP branding is better than WP?

I shall stop here and it is not my responsibility to make you smarter politically.

Goh Meng Seng

Talk about going round in circles.

1) People will chose the best opposition candidate in MCF (quoted from Goh Meng Seng).

2) Who is the best? Never say. But say Lee Li Lian is not the best one. (also from GMS)

3) Branding is not important. (also from GMS)

4) Lee Li Lian win not because she is better than the rest, but because chose Workers' Party brand name. (again from GMS)

5) People chose the best opposition candidate which is supposed to be the best which happens NOT to be Lee Li Lian. Don't understand why people still chose her despite she not being the best opposition candidate. Cannot be because of Workers' Party brand because GMS say branding not important.

 

[DEDEER]

Goh Meng Seng,

Stop thinking you are some political guru. Perhaps it will be easier to convince me you are not a political goondu by winning an election

Beyond your capabilities lah.

 

[DEDEER]

Seems like goondu Goh even lost to your own Nicole Seah in terms of &. This despite goondu Goh having a much easier task facing the most hated PAP minister Mah BT. Tsk Tsk Tsk

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

You seems NOT to have a good analytical mind. Even the uncles on the streets can see much clearer than you do.... It's the confluent of factors and basically, thanks to Tin PL for bringing in the contrast to make Nicole the star and slamming GCT.

Goh Meng Seng

Seems like goondu Goh even lost to your own Nicole Seah in terms of &. This despite goondu Goh having a much easier task facing the most hated PAP minister Mah BT. Tsk Tsk Tsk