forgotten weapon sar 21

[blackmore]

This excerpt is taken from [SIZE=-2]The Library of Congress Country Studies; CIA World Factbook[/SIZE]

In 1970 Chartered Industries began licensed production of the M16 assault rifle. More than 80,000 M16s were manufactured for the army between 1970 and 1979. In 1976 Chartered Industries purchased the rights to the SAR-80 assault rifle from Britain's Sterling Armament Company

 

[steffychun]

This excerpt is taken from [SIZE=-2]The Library of Congress Country Studies; CIA World Factbook[/SIZE]

In 1970 Chartered Industries began licensed production of the M16 assault rifle. More than 80,000 M16s were manufactured for the army between 1970 and 1979. In 1976 Chartered Industries purchased the rights to the SAR-80 assault rifle from Britain's Sterling Armament Company

Did Chartered create the SAR-21 from the SA-80?

 

[SonyEricsson]

I only know ultimax 100, never came across 2000 before.
mark 3 is ok.

From what I know, the monkey did. He's now Monkey2000.

 

[johnny333]

This excerpt is taken from [SIZE=-2]The Library of Congress Country Studies; CIA World Factbook[/SIZE]

In 1970 Chartered Industries began licensed production of the M16 assault rifle. More than 80,000 M16s were manufactured for the army between 1970 and 1979. In 1976 Chartered Industries purchased the rights to the SAR-80 assault rifle from Britain's Sterling Armament Company

I'm pretty sure that the rifle I used during NS had CIS markings on it.

I'm willing to bet that CIS was setup to manufacture cheap(er) rifles for NS men. That's why I doubt Spore got surplus rifles from the US or Vietnam. They might have gotten some units initially from the US, but once they found the rifle suitable for local use, they decided to manufacture it in Spore.

 

[Lee5604]

I only know ultimax 100, never came across 2000 before.
mark 3 is ok.

www.exoticarms.com/Photos/ultimax 2000 left fold.jpg

Picture of the Ultimax 2000

Kinana: If you did not see the sun rise today, it does not mean that there is no sun! There is both the Ultimax 100 (3 generations) and the Ultimax 2000 (with a folding stock).

 

[Leckmichamarsch]

Predecessor to the AR-15 in design was the AR-10 by Armalite Industries. All SAF's AR-15 has the original COLT markings stamped on the receiver; probably COLT surplus but not necessary from Vietnam stockpile. The purchase has to be sanctioned by the senate and usually shipment direct from Colt in the USA.

The worst products from CIS accepted into service was probably the SAR-80 & SAR-88 plus the cursive Ultimax 100 Mk I

An arrogant young punk by the name of Dr Daniel Goh was the product/project engineer behind the SAR 80..... This bloke knew nuts about assault rifle or rather all he knew about rifles was book knowledge. He has a degree n PhD in mining engineering from U of Nothingham. Hahaha long live the queen.

 

[Lee5604]

Predecessor to the AR-15 in design was the AR-10 by Armalite Industries. All SAF's AR-15 has the original COLT markings stamped on the receiver; probably COLT surplus but not necessary from Vietnam stockpile. The purchase has to be sanctioned by the senate and usually shipment direct from Colt in the USA.

The worst products from CIS accepted into service was probably the SAR-80 & SAR-88 plus the cursive Ultimax 100 Mk I

The AR-15s we (NS men) used in April 1975 had barrels which were very pitted (from heavy usage, most likely these AR-15s had seen battle) and also the bolts receivers were very worn out, usually the bolt too were worn out or become loose.

Yes, the AR-15s had the COLT Industries stamped on the magazine receiver.

Since the AR-15s were in used condition, we were told that they were from Vietnam stockpile. Could the Colt surplus be of used condition? I stand corrected. Does anyone have info about the AR-15s of the 1975s onwards?

 

[Lee5604]

An arrogant young punk by the name of Dr Daniel Goh was the product/project engineer behind the SAR 80..... This bloke knew nuts about assault rifle or rather all he knew about rifles was book knowledge. He has a degree n PhD in mining engineering from U of Nothingham. Hahaha long live the queen.

I am not surprised that the product/project engineer behind the SAR 80 knew nuts about assault rifles or the finese about these weapons. These product/project engineers have been producing useless weapons such as the Ultimax 100 and 2000 since Day 1!

 

[johnny333]

Could the Colt surplus be of used condition? I stand corrected. Does anyone have info about the AR-15s of the 1975s onwards?

The thing I noticed that was different was between the rifles I used during BMT and post BMT.

The BMT rifles were stripped of the black coating because the recruits used green wool to polish the barrel. The rifles that were issued after getting out of BMT were very new. Not too surprising since the rifles were hardly used. In an arty unit we didn't have to use blanks.

 

[Lee5604]

The thing I noticed that was different was between the rifles I used during BMT and post BMT.

The BMT rifles were stripped of the black coating because the recruits used green wool to polish the barrel. The rifles that were issued after getting out of BMT were very new. Not too surprising since the rifles were hardly used. In an arty unit we didn't have to use blanks.

Oh yes, now I remember too, that the barrels of all the AR-15s we used in 1975 were silverish and one look at them, you knew that they were used or recon rifles.

 

[johnny333]

Oh yes, now I remember too, that the barrels of all the AR-15s we used in 1975 were silverish and one look at them, you knew that they were used or recon rifles.

What the MRT fiasco has shown us is that there are some bean counters in the Spore system, ever ready to cut corners.
Being from an earlier batch, the SAF of that time were more professional. Some of the officers in my units were trained by the Mexicans Arty units is one of the support units & quite important in the SAF totem pole.

So maybe the rifles your unit got were cheap 2nd hand vietnam era equipment

 

[HTOLAS]

The M16 was produced under licence since the 70s. Those who served from the late 70s onwards would have used these Made in S'pore (M16S1) weapons. Rumour had it that CIS produced many more rifles than the licence allowed.

I believe the Thais bought their M16s from us. The Malaysians, on the other hand, bought theirs from the US, having refused to buy from Singapore.

I'm pretty sure that the rifle I used during NS had CIS markings on it.

I'm willing to bet that CIS was setup to manufacture cheap(er) rifles for NS men. That's why I doubt Spore got surplus rifles from the US or Vietnam. They might have gotten some units initially from the US, but once they found the rifle suitable for local use, they decided to manufacture it in Spore.

 

[sickpuppy]

The worst weapon made by the Chartered Insustries of S'pore was the Ultimax 2000.

That rifle rusts like a tin can in the field. Used it once for my reservist training, next year did not see the weapon again, the trainers said it was withdrawn. Heard they were sold to Myanmar for a song. Like a clearance sale.

yah know what u mean was a saw gunner in the reservist. Can't fire blanks keep having IA and 1 time during exercise firing support 1/2 way barrel follow bullet fly out.

 

[steffychun]

The M16 was produced under licence since the 70s. Those who served from the late 70s onwards would have used these Made in S'pore (M16S1) weapons. Rumour had it that CIS produced many more rifles than the licence allowed.

I believe the Thais bought their M16s from us. The Malaysians, on the other hand, bought theirs from the US, having refused to buy from Singapore.

Malaysians never used M-16s

 

[blackmore]

Malaysians never used M-16s

But the Malaysia service uses M16; police I have seen before holding in operasi.

 

[Kinana]

Msian used M16 before they switched to Steyr.

 

[HTOLAS]

You are both correct.

But the Malaysia service uses M16; police I have seen before holding in operasi.

Msian used M16 before they switched to Steyr.

 

[50000]

You are both correct.

yup, M-16s were some of the weapons stolen by the Al-Maunah group in 2000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ma%27unah

 

[johnny333]

Msian used M16 before they switched to Steyr.

The initial batches of Steyr where bought direct from Austria. The remainding balance were made in Malaysia.

Malaysians didn't waste their time on unproven designs unlike some of their neighbours

 

[Hans168]

I am not surprised that the product/project engineer behind the SAR 80 knew nuts about assault rifles or the finese about these weapons. These product/project engineers have been producing useless weapons such as the Ultimax 100 and 2000 since Day 1!

Some Facts:

Bill Sullivan (sp) was brought in by MINDEF Director of Logistics Ong Kah Cock - chairman of CIS. MINDEF paid the angmoh a cool million bucks to design, build n productionise the Ultimate 100 which later included the 100 round round magazine. Bill employed his buddy, another angmoh for it..... looks like it fucked up as it is gathering dust in some army stores. The rifle which can double up as GPMG (??) is reputed to have little of no kick. Later on Bill left but got into battle with CIS or MINDEF on royalty issues............. I think the gun was patented (by Bill?). The joke is the patent is based on laws of physics!!
Bill was part of the design team which Eugene Stoner (M16) led.

The SAR 80 was gathering dust in UK UK Sterling toilet storrage when CV Olsen, GM of CIS bought the design from Sterling - kind of angmoh doing a service to his motherland England. Mostly sheetmetal work and welding it was touted to be cheap to make. It is Planet of the Apes rifle. Daniel Goh was blue eyed boy of Olsen as one was true blue angmoh & the other, a banana (yellow outside but white inside...) who was schooled Saves the Queen!!! Result is a shitty assault rifle - it was sg who was assaulted and lost money due to plain folly of an angmoh FT & his minion from Kedah (birth place of Daniel Goh... the same bloke who was asked to leave Cable Vision ????).