Money Not Enough 3

[Ash007]

But, who is going to bail Singapore out?

There is always a potential for disastrous mistakes to be made regardless of who runs the country. The PAP is hardly immune.

Just look at Ireland, once the poster boy for a low tax, open economy. It's now a basket case in need of a bail out.

 

[Leongsam]

But, who is going to bail Singapore out?

I have no idea. I guess it all depends on the geopolitical situation at the time if and when this scenario materialises.

The IMF would be the prime candidate if it's still around.

 

[Ash007]

So you are saying there is a chance that Singapore could turn out like Ireland? I always thought the PAP perform at least some sort of financial prudence when it comes to the economy.

I have no idea. I guess it all depends on the geopolitical situation at the time if and when this scenario materialises.

The IMF would be the prime candidate if it's still around.

 

[neddy]

I'm pro PAP when it comes to welfare. I am anti PAP in many other areas.

I believe you refer to welfare for businessmen and the rich.

Employment Laws for the working/employee class will help without appearing too welfarish.

Where they fail is the way they play the game. They cheat, they lie, they cover up, they manipulate and they operate anything but a meritocracy when it comes to selecting their management team.

PAP has to do that to be "nimble" and quick to take advantage of her slower neighbours. A lot of Yes-men and groupthink speed things up.

Graduates marrying graduates will reduce the number of idling lazy bums. LKY idea.

 

[freedalas]

Looking after the old is a family responsibility not a government responsibility.

Our parents took care of us when we were young. When our parents grow old, it is our turn to look after them. That's how civilized communities function.

Your attempt to pass the buck to the government is an appalling attitude and reflects on your upbringing. I can understand this sort of attitude from white western trash but not from someone brought up in an Asian society where we are supposed to honor and respect the elderly and repay them for the sacrifices they made in raising us.

My dear Leongsam, when will u ever learn to stop making general statements that are no-brainers and to provide comments specific to the S'pore context please? The S'pore population is largely made up of Asian families where filial piety is a given. Every son or daughter would take it as his or her responsibility to look after their parents. There's no two ways about that. But the situation in S'pore is such that the policy failures of the PAP has made life so very difficult that the son or daughter can barely or can't even make ends meet for their own families, so how much of a financial help can they provide for their elderlies. If u have spoken to the older folks, they will tell u they have to look for discarded cardboards or drink cans because their own children have their own families to feed and many atimes they can only just survive. In any case, it's a wrong assumption that in the west, the people don't look after their old parents. I know of many who do. Yours is just an outmoded view that the PAP had crafted of which only morons would believe,

 

[salmon]

being kaypo again - now it sounds like an interview.

 

[Leongsam]

My dear Leongsam, when will u ever learn to stop making general statements

In any case, it's a wrong assumption that in the west, the people don't look after their old parents. I know of many who do. Yours is just an outmoded view that the PAP had crafted of which only morons would believe,

I happen to be living in a country where the citizenry consider the government to be responsible for EVERYTHING from cradle to grave. It's a crazy system. People expect the govt to fix their misbehaving kids. The parents have this notion that because they pay taxes, they're entitled to sub contract this task to the authorities.

Singapore used to be a place where people took responsibility for their own lives. Sadly, because of looneys like yourself championing the socialist/welfare track, more Singaporeans have succumbed to this Western liberal crap ideology that is responsible for the downfall of most failed European states.

 

[Ash007]

You seldom get such an open discussion with the "owner" of this site. I appreciate this opportunity.

being kaypo again - now it sounds like an interview.

 

[Leongsam]

You seldom get such an open discussion with the "owner" of this site. I appreciate this opportunity.

If I have the time, I have plenty to say. Take a look at the "Crumbling of Singapore" thread.

 

[Ash007]

I have a colleague from China that says Aussieland has a more socialist policy then China itself!

I happen to be living in a country where the citizenry consider the government to be responsible for EVERYTHING from cradle to grave. It's a crazy system. People expect the govt to fix their misbehaving kids. The parents have this notion that because they pay taxes, they're entitled to sub contract this task to the authorities.

Singapore used to be a place where people took responsibility for their own lives. Sadly, because of looneys like yourself championing the socialist/welfare track, more Singaporeans have succumbed to this Western liberal crap ideology that is responsible for the downfall of most failed European states.

 

[Leongsam]

I have a colleague from China that says Aussieland has a more socialist policy then China itself!

I hate the OZ govt. They are worse than NZ and there are far more rules and regulations in OZ than there are in Singapore. Many of these ridiculous laws are introduced by state govts plus the local council adds their own layer of garbage.

NZ has a much more relaxed and easy going attitude towards life.

 

[neddy]

I hate the OZ govt. They are worse than NZ and there are far more rules and regulations in OZ than there are in Singapore. Many of these ridiculous laws are introduced by state govts plus the local council adds their own layer of garbage.

NZ has a much more relaxed and easy going attitude towards life.

That is why I am crossing the ditch when it is no longer justified to remain here.
But the public debt and the Christchurch rebuilding cost - how many sheep need to be sacrificed to pay for the indulgence?

The big Oceania countries should heel David Cameron Welfare Reform speech. It is a question of belling the cat. Who will sacrifice their political career to achieve this.

 

[Cruxx]

That is why I am crossing the ditch when it is no longer justified to remain here.
But the public debt and the Christchurch rebuilding cost - how many sheep need to be sacrificed to pay for the indulgence?

The big Oceania countries should heel David Cameron Welfare Reform speech. It is a question of belling the cat. Who will sacrifice their political career to achieve this.

The problem isn't welfare policies per se but the lack of will for them. The Nordic countries have proven that it's entirely possible for state-enforced redistribution to work.

 

[Leongsam]

That is why I am crossing the ditch when it is no longer justified to remain here.
But the public debt and the Christchurch rebuilding cost - how many sheep need to be sacrificed to pay for the indulgence?

The big Oceania countries should heel David Cameron Welfare Reform speech. It is a question of belling the cat. Who will sacrifice their political career to achieve this.

The rebuilding of Christchurch has more positives than negatives.

 

[sleaguepunter]

i dun support welfare state but i do want the govt to set policies that give equal rights to the disadvantage. what the point building pavements with dots on them to guide the blinded when the blind cannot find a proper job. So the pavement are meant to guide the blind or give contract to cronies who are towkay of construction firms?

the other is medical cost, here we heard govt said they help to keep cost down then the other side MOH want to hospitals to increase the salaries of the healthcare workers. Not that i against increasing the salaries of the frontline healthcare workers but the hospital management took the opportunities to give themselves higher pay plus more bonus. i happen to know a certain govt hospital ceo get bonus that is equal to six months of his annual pay package this year because of MOH giving $$ to fund healthcare workers salaries. i am sorry, being a ceo of a hospital dun make him a healthcare worker. So is the MOH objective to improve the lives of ordinary healthcare workers turning into a scheme for the fat cats to reward themselves?

 

[Leongsam]

The problem isn't welfare policies per se but the lack of will for them. The Nordic countries have proven that it's entirely possible for state-enforced redistribution to work.

In order for state enforced redistibution to work, the society that it is imposed upon must collectively have a strong sense of social justice and a genuine egalitarian mindset.

The majority of the Nordic population have this. The majority of Asian societies do not.

Ask yourself whether you have equal regard for a plumber as you do for a brain surgeon. If you do and the rest of Singapore thinks the same way, then the Nordic system is workable in Singapore.

On the other hand, if the thought of your children becoming carpenters, electricians or cooks horrifies you, the Nordic model will not work.

 

[Cruxx]

i dun support welfare state but i do want the govt to set policies that give equal rights to the disadvantage. what the point building pavements with dots on them to guide the blinded when the blind cannot find a proper job. So the pavement are meant to guide the blind or give contract to cronies who are towkay of construction firms?

the other is medical cost, here we heard govt said they help to keep cost down then the other side MOH want to hospitals to increase the salaries of the healthcare workers. Not that i against increasing the salaries of the frontline healthcare workers but the hospital management took the opportunities to give themselves higher pay plus more bonus. i happen to know a certain govt hospital ceo get bonus that is equal to six months of his annual pay package this year because of MOH giving $$ to fund healthcare workers salaries. i am sorry, being a ceo of a hospital dun make him a healthcare worker. So is the MOH objective to improve the lives of ordinary healthcare workers turning into a scheme for the fat cats to reward themselves?

Boss, read your own post again. You're advocating for a welfare state. I think you've committed the Sinkie fallacy of defining a welfare state solely by the amount of benefits being rendered to the unemployed. A welfare state is much more than that.

 

[yinyang]

..society that it is imposed upon must collectively have a strong sense of social justice and a genuine egalitarian mindset.
The majority of the Nordic population have this. The majority of Asian societies do not..

Moot point. Social gaps and salary bands narrower in former populace. And taxation attests to this too.

 

[freedalas]

In order for state enforced redistibution to work, the society that it is imposed upon must collectively have a strong sense of social justice and a genuine egalitarian mindset.

The majority of the Nordic population have this. The majority of Asian societies do not.

Ask yourself whether you have equal regard for a plumber as you do for a brain surgeon. If you do and the rest of Singapore thinks the same way, then the Nordic system is workable in Singapore.

On the other hand, if the thought of your children becoming carpenters, electricians or cooks horrifies you, the Nordic model will not work.

Your logic or rather the lack of it is appalling. The relevant debate here is not about how one looks at a plumber versus a brain surgeon (btw u need one) nor is it about having children aspiring to be carpenters etc. The fact is that in any country, there will bound to be people who end up in such vocations and many atimes through no fault of theirs(conversely many of the well-to-do are just inheritors of family wealth who are useless bumps in reality). The issue is then what role or the extent the govt ought to help such people who did not choose to be in the poor state that they are in. To simply blame them for ending up in such situations is a total abdication of the govt's responsibility of which only the PAP is guilty of and sadly supported by morons like you.

 

[Leongsam]

The issue is then what role or the extent the govt ought to help such people who did not choose to be in the poor state that they are in. To simply blame them for ending up in such situations is a total abdication of the govt's responsibility of which only the PAP is guilty of and sadly supported by morons like you.

The job of a govt is to provide infrastructure, law and order and education to everyone regardless of their status or wealth. It is up to each individual to take the cards they are dealt and make something of their lives.

If they succeed, I congratulate them. If they don't, they have only themselves to blame and they have to face the consequences. No govt in the world can guarantee equal outcomes. All they can do is provide equal opportunities and the PAP does this in abundance.