WP's Fox or the Vixen?

[andyfisher]

The highest ranked SAF paper officer I ever had the chance to work with was a ex-scholar colonel.
When under pressure, he was indecisive and hesitant and still had the civil service and army type of chain of command mentality, unable to react dynamically when situations changed.

And worse, he wholeheartedly believed in the pappy system and spoke proudly of them, scary.

But when everything was smooth, the guy could manage v well, but they are administrators.

Told myself, always be aware of paper generals, most of them cant call a spade a spade and need to overly analyse everything and wait for instructions from top. sad people :oIo:

 

[tanwahp]

but we also need the fiery brand of politics like SDP's.

I don't see why fiery moves can find any relevant place anywhere.

The PAP's brand of politics is the most fiery. They demolish their opponents through control and use of media, manipulating the electoral system, dominance of state apparatuses.

 

[methink]

This the problem with you bro tanWP: you either dun understand the issue or you trying very hard not to. Maybe you need to define "fiery" first?

 

[metalmickey]

It is vitally important for a leadership to have this complimentariness, yet exist with some healthy tension. The closest I can think of is LKY-GKS pair. Remember that both these men deliberately excluded Raja and Toh in the inner circle when Separation was decided upon.

Maybe the LKY-GKS was the cabinet within the cabinet during the good old days. In a way they balanced each other well, the knuckleduster and the administrator. We can see that things started to go wrong around the time GKS exited the scene, around the mid-80s. Then the administrator was gone and the knuckleduster was left. The good dynamic of GKS-LKY turned into the father / son / holy Goh trinity which was basically an echo chamber which proceeded to screw up Singapore for the following 25 years. So 25 great years of LKY-GKS, 27 not so great years of the holy trinity. Like Sven Goran Eriksson would say, first half good, second half not so good.

 

[tanwahp]

This the problem with you bro tanWP: you either dun understand the issue or you trying very hard not to. Maybe you need to define "fiery" first?

And why did you agree with Tracy when you don't know what "fiery" means?

I define it as what described WP is not. Speaking boisterously like some politicians we see around the world (usually not the top tier politician) and street protests (usually done by activists).

 

[Liquigas]

The lost of GY is a by-product of their GRC implementation.If Aljunied has not been a GRC but 5 different SMC, instead of getting all 5 seats, WP might just be able to get 3-4 depending on the match up. GY will still be around I am sure as WP won't be so stupid to send in a key person to challenge him.

In the 2011 GE @ Aljunied GRC every single PAP candidates lost in their respective wards to the WP team with Zainul obtaining the highest share of votes, Hwee Hua the lowest and GY was in between.

 

[methink]

And why did you agree with Tracy when you don't know what "fiery" means?

I define it as what described WP is not. Speaking boisterously like some politicians we see around the world (usually not the top tier politician) and street protests (usually done by activists).

I was right darn right: you dun understand the issues and you tried very hard not to!

WP is the authority when a definition is asked? Or your understanding of what fiery is below...?
"The PAP's brand of politics is the most fiery. They demolish their opponents through control and use of media, manipulating the electoral system, dominance of state apparatuses."

Please come up with one and let the ppl here see your senseless argument.

 

[giggity_shit]

WP can be very zen now. All they have to do is get SL to say something or ask an uncomforatble question. Thw WP IB will carry their message for them.

People say this BE is the demise of the PAP and rise of WP. I think its more of the demise of the PAP IB and rise of the WP IB.

 

[@rmadill0]

In the 2011 GE @ Aljunied GRC every single PAP candidates lost in their respective wards to the WP team with Zainul obtaining the highest share of votes, Hwee Hua the lowest and GY was in between.

They lost as a team. When they are packaged as a GRC, the Aljunied voters have no other choice but casting their votes for the team they want. Even those who supported GY would rather sacrifice him for the WP team.

Hence, my point is that if they are voting independently as SMC, GY might be able to keep his seat as WP will not send a strong candidate to clash with him. Voters of the SMC might then vote for GY instead of the weaker WP candidate.

In gist, GY was brought down together as voters in Aljunied want the WP team more but he might have survived if Aljunied is not a GRC and votes are cast to elect their MP and not a group of MPs.

 

[alternativemediarocks]

If the technocrats do not have the answer. What can we do when the old man passes away?
we have a nice machinery with no driver.
I doubt their will be any answers , a breakdown of the status quo is inevitable.

A degree in political science doesn't make one a politician. Politics has to come from the heart and the belly. Some people have the knack. Most don't.

LKY made no apologies for recruiting technocrats via the backdoor for political office. He admitted that they would be no match in a battle with someone possessing political acumen in their genetic make up. However, he warned sinkies that there was a huge difference between being able to deliver great soundbites and actually crafting policies that helped the country.

His favorite term for any politician who is not in his camp is "charlatan".... a conman who is a smooth talker and persuader but is peddling nothing more than snake oil.

You know what... he is actually right. When it comes to boosting the share value of Singapore Inc, the Lee Li Lians of the world don't have what it takes. They may be able to lend a sympathetic ear to downtrodden members of society but when it comes to crafting a formula that takes Singapore to the next level, it takes more than empathy for ones fellow humans.

The sad part is that no PAP technocrat seems to have the answer either.

 

[Leongsam]

If the technocrats do not have the answer. What can we do when the old man passes away?
we have a nice machinery with no driver.
I doubt their will be any answers , a breakdown of the status quo is inevitable.

In my opinion, there is no magic formula. The unique brew that took Singapore from 3rd world to 1st in less than a generation cannot be replicated in this day and age and no new magic is on the horizon. It won't make a scrap of difference who is in power. Singapore Inc simply isn't sustainable.

I've always viewed Singapore's success as an aberration. I benefitted immensely from the LKY/GKS team. However, I knew it would not last for long so I cashed out when I saw the opportunity.

A kinder, gentler society may well emerge but it will also be a lot poorer. If the happiness index actually goes up a few notches despite the fall in incomes and standard of living, perhaps it won't be such a bad thing after all.

 

[metalmickey]

If the technocrats do not have the answer. What can we do when the old man passes away?
we have a nice machinery with no driver.
I doubt their will be any answers , a breakdown of the status quo is inevitable.

In a democracy, we "make our voices heard".

By "make our voices heard", I don't only mean kpkb. I mean we also provide solutions. There are 5 million of us. 4 million if you only want to count "real" Singaporeans. If we can't come up with any solutions, we will be fucked, and deservedly so.

 

[TracyTan866]

I do agree with that. The SDP too have a heart for the ppl which is missing in PAP.

Exactly...and I wont be surprised SDP will contest with and trounce the pap in certain GRCs at the next GE

 

[ahkow]

They lost as a team. When they are packaged as a GRC, the Aljunied voters have no other choice but casting their votes for the team they want. Even those who supported GY would rather sacrifice him for the WP team.

Hence, my point is that if they are voting independently as SMC, GY might be able to keep his seat as WP will not send a strong candidate to clash with him. Voters of the SMC might then vote for GY instead of the weaker WP candidate.

In gist, GY was brought down together as voters in Aljunied want the WP team more but he might have survived if Aljunied is not a GRC and votes are cast to elect their MP and not a group of MPs.

They also got in as a team. TPL, the hopelessly lost bimbo got in through the Marine Parade GRC under the coattails of the holy goh.

 

[liongsum]

Exactly...and I wont be surprised SDP will contest with and trounce the pap in certain GRCs at the next GE

and then ... what?
it's not as though SDP has the solution.
In fact, it is far from having a solution.
From exploiting the immigrant labour and indirectly our own poor, they now have to be buttered.
Let's face it, middle ground far outnumber the 'poor'.
I'm not really sure those who voted for the oppo meant that they want help diverted to the poor.
More likely, they want it for themselves.
And they can only cream it from the rich.
Just imagine this ... already has a nice home with fridge, TVs and marble flooring ... but voted for the oppo because he could not buy a second home (to rent out).

 

[billisnotathome]

I'm not really sure those who voted for the oppo meant that they want help diverted to the poor.
More likely, they want it for themselves.
And they can only cream it from the rich.
Just imagine this ... already has a nice home with fridge, TVs and marble flooring ... but voted for the oppo because he could not buy a second home (to rent out).

I can't recall ever hearing the 'opposition' promising to fight for the rights of the upper middle class to own a second home. Your theory holds no water.

 

[freedalas]

In my opinion, there is no magic formula. The unique brew that took Singapore from 3rd world to 1st in less than a generation cannot be replicated in this day and age and no new magic is on the horizon. It won't make a scrap of difference who is in power. Singapore Inc simply isn't sustainable.

I've always viewed Singapore's success as an aberration. I benefitted immensely from the LKY/GKS team. However, I knew it would not last for long so I cashed out when I saw the opportunity.

A kinder, gentler society may well emerge but it will also be a lot poorer. If the happiness index actually goes up a few notches despite the fall in incomes and standard of living, perhaps it won't be such a bad thing after all.

Wow! One of your rarest postings that I fully agree with. Good for you, Boss Sam.

PS: Err................ not fully actually lah, that part about Singapore from 3rd world to 1st is nonsense.

 

[jw5]

The 2 of them are practically opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of education, profession, language, upbringing and possibly even mindset.
The fact that they have fought together side-by-side for years and been fairly successful, or at least more successful than any of their predecessors, speaks volumes for them.

Given the choice of sitting next to either of them on a long haul flight, I would choose Sylvia any day, no offence to LTK.
But as for LTK being overly respectful to the pap, or even being a mole, that's utter nonsense. Just ask Georgie and Pinky whether they expected or wanted to lose Aljunied. LTK is a great ground politician and very good at making the voters feel good, but unfortunately, he also lacks great intellect and a professional field, which would hold him in better stead when debating and discussing issues. In my opinion, he has over-achieved, not under-achieved.

 

[scroobal]

Agree with your points. I think they both need each other.

The PAP thought they were dealing with a chicken and a duck based on their background and ended up fighting with a fox and a vixen. And for this by elections they sent a biscuit man with a story of a fish and porridge.

Old man and PAP wpuld have preferred to have JBJ helming the WP rather than LTK. They should have followed the Israelis who did not assassinate Arafat or take him out because they knew who they were dealing with and the facts that his wife and children were living in the lap of luxury in Paris.

The 2 of them are practically opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of education, profession, language, upbringing and possibly even mindset.
The fact that they have fought together side-by-side for years and been fairly successful, or at least more successful than any of their predecessors, speaks volumes for them.

Given the choice of sitting next to either of them on a long haul flight, I would choose Sylvia any day, no offence to LTK.
But as for LTK being overly respectful to the pap, or even being a mole, that's utter nonsense. Just ask Georgie and Pinky whether they expected or wanted to lose Aljunied. LTK is a great ground politician and very good at making the voters feel good, but unfortunately, he also lacks great intellect and a professional field, which would hold him in better stead when debating and discussing issues. In my opinion, he has over-achieved, not under-achieved.

 

[jw5]

Agree with your points. I think they both need each other.

The PAP thought they were dealing with a chicken and a duck based on their background and ended up fighting with a fox and a vixen. And for this by elections they sent a biscuit man with a story of a fish and porridge.

Old man and PAP wpuld have preferred to have JBJ helming the WP rather than LTK. They should have followed the Israelis who did not assassinate Arafat or take him out because they knew who they were dealing with and the facts that his wife and children were living in the lap of luxury in Paris.

They may have preferred to have JBJ helming WP as he could be dealt with using their sop.
LTK with his overly cautious mannerism and being a great friend of and willing listerner to the common man, is more difficult.
But JBJ definitely irritated them more, so both have their plus points.