Worthless Chinese Steal Stealth Fighter Technology From Crashed F-117 in 1999

[longbow]

But how could anyone even know what type of coating is on the J-20. I think the main thing abut the J-20 are the physical stealth features of the aircraft rather than the paint.

So pretty hard to say that they copied the RAM of the F117. How could anyone know. Even the CIA was caught off guard by the J-20.

I believed the chinese were interested in the RAM (Radar Absorbing Material) of the F117

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar-absorbent_material

 

[wikiphile]

But how could anyone even know what type of coating is on the J-20. I think the main thing abut the J-20 are the physical stealth features of the aircraft rather than the paint.

So pretty hard to say that they copied the RAM of the F117. How could anyone know. Even the CIA was caught off guard by the J-20.

The F-117 was a pioneering step for modern stealth warplanes, however her very same design which allows her Radar cross section to be minimised is the devil to fly and that was about the same when fly-by-wire technology could be incoporated into modern warplanes.

The F-117's design was its best and worst feature, it could hardly be detected on the radar but hardly manouverable at all and that's why it was used as a bomber. The 'Fighter' designation i believed was just a strategy to put convince US Congress that they were funding a superior stealth fighter aircraft and not an 'invisible' bomber

 

[eatshitndie]

engineer gets 32 years for selling military secrets to china

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_china_spy_case

he was also accused of helping china in the design of a stealth cruise missile.

 

[wikiphile]

I had watched a documentary about this guy when I was in primary school. After detainment for a few years in US, Dr qian came back to china a started the rocket program with zero help from US and the Soviets. They developed satellite launch capability through trial and error, just like Nasa and Sputnik in the space race.

In short, the chinese is definitely capable of accomplishing anything through the full development lifecycle ... but why should they? Reverse engineering of captured technology is much cheaper and faster.

Wasn't he the father of China's rocket programme?

 

[Narong Wongwan]

Yes, it means it can be detected and can still be shot down; so it is not invincible as claimed when it came into service.

There are only 2 invisible planes to date, one is owned by Wonder Woman and the other belong to the X-men.

 

[wikiphile]

There are only 2 invisible planes to date, one is owned by Wonder Woman and the other belong to the X-men.

thank goodness only her plane is invisible and not her neh nehs while flying it

 

[CPFBCPFB]

PRC already master many areas of technology and leading the world in niche areas like super conductor & quantum physics. Radar etc are very easy to defeat with existing knowledge and experience. PRC's space and rocket is very advanced. High speed trains & supercomputers are currently leading in the whole globe.

Americans can cry their hearts out but they lost.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1106779/1/.html

Home ›

Asia Pacific News



China paper dismisses report that stealth tech stolen
Posted: 25 January 2011 1524 hrs
People surround a Chinese J-20 stealth plane before its runway test in Chengdu, southwest China. (AP Photo/Kyodo News)

Photos 1 of 1

People surround a Chinese J-20 stealth plane before its runway test in Chengdu, southwest China. (AP Photo/Kyodo News)


Twitter Messenger

BEIJING: A Chinese state newspaper on Tuesday poured scorn on reports that it had used technology from a downed US plane in its stealth fighter, hailing its jet as a "masterpiece" of homegrown innovation.

A prototype of China's first stealth fighter, the J-20 -- seen as a future rival to the US Air Force's F-22 Raptor -- made its maiden flight earlier this month, during a visit to Beijing by US Defence Secretary Robert Gates.

Reports have suggested the Chinese jet could have been made with technology from a US plane shot down in 1999 by a Serbian anti-aircraft missile during the Kosovo war, but a Chinese defence official dismissed them as unfounded.

"It's not the first time foreign media has smeared newly unveiled Chinese military technologies. It's meaningless to respond to such speculations," the official told the Global Times newspaper.

The paper -- a sister publication of the People's Daily, the Communist Party mouthpiece -- also quoted a top test pilot, Xu Yongling, as saying the J-20 possessed advanced supersonic cruise ability and other "breakthrough" features.

"Different from previous fighters such as the J-7 and J-8, which drew on the merits of aircraft from other countries, the J-20 is a masterpiece of China's technological innovation," Xu said.

The pilot said the technology of the downed F-117 was regarded as "outdated" even at the time when it was shot down, and could not be applied to a next-generation stealth jet.

A senior US lawmaker, House Armed Services Committee Chairman Buck McKeon, last week charged that the J-20 had been built based on technology copied from a Russian jet.

The US F-22 is currently the world's only fully operational next-generation stealth fighter jet. Other than the United States and China, only a handful of countries are working on so-called next-generation stealth fighters.

In January 2010, Russia unveiled an aircraft touted as a rival to the US jet, developed by Sukhoi. Experts say Japan has a homegrown programme, while India is cooperating with Russia.

China has repeatedly insisted that its military growth and modernisation are defensive in nature and pose no threat to other nations.

-AFP/ac

 

[think_lees]

This theory huh... very Chia Lat you know...

If they had to shoot down F-117 to make one...

And now they want to make aircraft carrier...

When are they going to sink a US carrier huh?

 

[kensington]

Original Wonder Bra

Stealth Bra Wonder

 

[Debonerman]

In January 2010, Russia unveiled an aircraft touted as a rival to the US jet, developed by Sukhoi. Experts say Japan has a homegrown programme, while India is cooperating with Russia. It was reported the Indian program is progressing well in the area of physical stealth but encountering problems in the suppression of smell.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="640" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/g94C5CNIPOQ?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>​

 

[singveld]

sure, this is fair game. Crash plane in enemy ground, like japan also lose a zero, usa also retrieve it. In cold war, they get defectors and reverse engineer russian migs.

 

[longbow]

US and Soviet Space program technology came from capture German scientists. Some of them were known Nazis but shielded from persecution because of their knowhow.

I had watched a documentary about this guy when I was in primary school. After detainment for a few years in US, Dr qian came back to china a started the rocket program with zero help from US and the Soviets. They developed satellite launch capability through trial and error, just like Nasa and Sputnik in the space race.

In short, the chinese is definitely capable of accomplishing anything through the full development lifecycle ... but why should they? Reverse engineering of captured technology is much cheaper and faster.

 

[singveld]

US and Soviet Space program technology came from capture German scientists. Some of them were known Nazis but shielded from persecution because of their knowhow.

yeah so right. without the NAZI help, USA cannot even lift off to moon.

In fact, they steal german technology to build submarine, rockets and jet plane.

So this is fair game. Nothing wrong with PRC stealing technology. If they dun steal then that is odd.

 

[longbow]

In military arena the aim is to win. So you have spys, spy satellites, intelligences, counter intelligences. What do you think the CIA does?

In 1976 there was a Soviet defector that landed Mig 25 in Japan. The aircraft was obtained by US and dismantled to obtain the technology.


Western intelligence and the MiG-25
MiG-25RBSh with markings of 2nd Sqn/47th GvORAP (Guards independent recce Regiment).Inaccurate intelligence analysis caused the West to initially believe the MiG-25 was an agile air-combat fighter rather than an interceptor. In response, the United States started a new program which resulted in the McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle.[12] NATO obtained a better understanding of the MiG-25s capabilities on 6 September 1976, when a Soviet Air Defence Forces pilot, Lt. Viktor Belenko, defected, landing his MiG-25P at Hakodate Airport in Japan.[13] The pilot overshot the runway on landing, damaging the landing gear and making the MiG-25 un-airworthy. It was carefully dismantled and analyzed by the Foreign Technology Division (now the National Air and Space Intelligence Center) of the United States Air Force, at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. After 67 days, the aircraft was returned to the Soviets in pieces. The analysis, based on technical manuals and ground tests of engines and avionics, revealed unusual technical information:

Belenko's particular aircraft was brand new, representing the very latest Soviet technology.
The aircraft was assembled very quickly, and was essentially built around its massive Tumansky R-15(B) turbojets.
Welding was done by hand. Rivets with non-flush heads were used in areas that would not cause adverse aerodynamic drag.[14]
The aircraft was built of a nickel alloy and not titanium as was assumed (though some titanium was used in heat-critical areas). The steel construction contributed to the craft's massive 64,000 lb (29,000 kg) unarmed weight.
Maximum acceleration (g-load) rating was just 2.2 g (21.6 m/s²) with full fuel tanks, with an absolute limit of 4.5 g (44.1 m/s²). One MiG-25 withstood an inadvertent 11.5 g (112.8 m/s²) pull during low-altitude dogfight training, but the resulting deformation damaged the airframe beyond repair.[15]
Combat radius was 186 miles (300 km), and maximum range on internal fuel (at subsonic speeds) was only 744 miles (1,200 km) at low altitude (< 1000 meter).[5]
The airspeed indicator was redlined at Mach 2.8, with typical intercept speeds near Mach 2.5 in order to extend the service life of the engines.[13] A MiG-25 was tracked flying over Sinai at Mach 3.2 in the early 1970s, but the flight resulted in the destruction of its engines.[14]
The majority of the on-board avionics were based on vacuum-tube technology, not solid-state electronics. Although they represented aging technology, vacuum tubes were actually more tolerant of temperature extremes, thereby removing the need for providing complex environmental controls inside the avionics bays. In addition, the vacuum tubes were easy to replace in remote northern airfields where sophisticated transistor parts might not have been readily available. Thanks to the use of vacuum tubes, the MiG-25P's original Smerch-A (Tornado, NATO reporting name "Foxfire") radar had enormous power — about 600 kilowatts. As with most Soviet aircraft, the MiG-25 was designed to be as rugged as possible. Moreover, the use of vacuum tubes makes the aircraft's systems more resistant to an electromagnetic pulse, for example after a nuclear blast.[16]

yeah so right. without the NAZI help, USA cannot even lift off to moon.

In fact, they steal german technology to build submarine, rockets and jet plane.

So this is fair game. Nothing wrong with PRC stealing technology. If they dun steal then that is odd.

 

[Royalblood]

No shame in doing that.

The modern day rifle design has its roots in the crossbows which were invented by the Chinese since before christ. Subsequently, the Chinese went on to invent repetitng crossbows that could fire a few arrows in one squeeze of a trigger; this led to the west to invent a repetiting rifle called the machine gun. Many inventions originated from the far east which were copied by the west and further improved on.

londoncabby, going by ur logic, the west is equally worthless and stupid

 

[Ramseth]

No shame in doing that.

The modern day rifle design has its roots in the crossbows which were invented by the Chinese since before christ. Subsequently, the Chinese went on to invent repetitng crossbows that could fire a few arrows in one squeeze of a trigger; this led to the west to invent a repetiting rifle called the machine gun. Many inventions originated from the far east which were copied by the west and further improved on.

londoncabby, going by ur logic, the west is equally worthless and stupid

I think the rifle and subsequently machine gun originated from the the single-shot musket which in turn originated from the miniaturisation of the cannon for portability and men-to-men combat instead of mass field combat. Be that as it may or not, all are still based on the Chinese invention of gunpowder.

I differ in the opinion of the origin of rifle and machine gun, but I agree with the principle. Call it copying or learning, there's nothing wrong.

 

[Royalblood]

I think the rifle and subsequently machine gun originated from the the single-shot musket which in turn originated from the miniaturisation of the cannon for portability and men-to-men combat instead of mass field combat. Be that as it may or not, all are still based on the Chinese invention of gunpowder.

I differ in the opinion of the origin of rifle and machine gun, but I agree with the principle. Call it copying or learning, there's nothing wrong.

When i mentioned rifle design, i was talking about the shape/ frame of the rifle. The frame of a rifle is similar to the first crossbow invented by the Chinese. Namely the rifle butt, trigger and trigger guard, forearm of the rifle, etc.

True that the first musket is somewhat like a miniature version of a cannon with portability in mind. But before the musket was invented, the Chinese were already using the hand cannon as a form of portable firepower. The first muskets, which i believe are the matchlock ones, probably descended from a combination of Chinese hand cannon firing mechanism and chinese crossbow frame design. The first musket is certainly not invented by the europeans. Matchlock muskets were already in service in China at a time when the europeans languished in the dark ages.
However, the europeans somehow managed to catch up with the Chinese and invented the modern day rifle from the muskets.

The Chinese repeating crossbow may or may not have inspired the birth of the machine gun, but 2 things are certain: the idea is largely similar; that is to fire multiple rounds with a squeeze of the trigger, and the repeating crossbow precedes the first gatling machine gun by centuries.

 

[Ramseth]

Actually, after inventing gunpowder, Chinese also invented cannon first, an implement to fling gunpowered shell over distance timed to detonate upon hitting target. The ancient chess shows this well. Only Chinese chess has the cannon. Ancient Chinese cannon versus medieval European cannon was like German V2 versus modern missile. They copied it and improved on it. So there's nothing wrong with learning and copying.

 

[longbow]

When Honda and toyota came out with their first cars, they were small, rudimentary in design. The common myth then was that if you scratch off the paint you will see coca cola or biscuit tin imprint. At that time in Singapore many of my friends had Rovers, Morris, Renault, Fiats, Simca :continental cars" and scoffed at the Japs.

Just see where Japs have come. Next came the Koreans and now the Chinese. The evolutionary process is the same.

1) 1st you copy or produce under license what is popular in the market
2) 2nd you sell cheaper and get market share; with market share you now have $ to do R&D to improve on the product at hand.
3) 3rd you have come out with your own car/product which is of your own design. Most likely it is 1 generation behind in technology.
4) You catch up in terms of technology and are now one of the competitors



Those that scoff and keep saying product is copied or no creativity had better watch out. Look at the sales figures. These companies may be copying but may be making big bucks and pumping that $ back into R&D.

 

[Rogue Trader]

US and Soviet Space program technology came from capture German scientists. Some of them were known Nazis but shielded from persecution because of their knowhow.

When Berlin fell, the Nazi V2 rocket program was up for grabs to both superpowers. The Soviets captured the rocket plans for further development by their own scientists. The Yanks, through the Nuremberg Trials, "adopted" and employed the Nazi rocket scientists. If you look at the timeline of the Space Race, the russians had a head start (they were first to send a man to space). But the US, through sheer ingenuity, vast resources and a lot of luck, won it in the end.

The US-USSR Space Race was last century's Golden period of Science. It led to the development of many technologies we take for granted today - microprocessors, intercontinental flight, wireless communication etc.

The Apollo astronauts had superstar status like David beckham, Lady gugu, Justin Bieber etc of today. What a good time that must have been to be an American.