<TABLE id=msgUN border=0 cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD id=msgUNsubj vAlign=top>Coffeeshop Chit Chat - Why SG Indians will never integrate with</TD><TD id=msgunetc noWrap align=right></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=msgtable cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="96%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=msg vAlign=top><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgbfr1 width="1%"></TD><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead vAlign=top><TD class=msgF width="1%" noWrap align=right>From: </TD><TD class=msgFname width="68%" noWrap>kojakbt_89_ <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgDate width="30%" noWrap align=right>Jul-20 8:39 pm </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT height=20 width="1%" noWrap align=right>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname width="68%" noWrap>ALL <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right>(1 of 14) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft rowSpan=4 width="1%"></TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>54307.1 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD id=msgtxt_1 class=msgtxt>Why S’porean Indians will never integrate with imported Indians
July 21st, 2011 |
Author: Contributions |
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I am in my late 60s now. I believe I know India more than most Indians from India. Because I had traveled to almost every nooks of India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and etc in the course of my work in the last 40 years. In fact, I had studied in India for a couple of years – something unusual for a local Indian. And here are my observations.
Some times after the visit of China’s strongman Deng to Singapore, Lee started the sinicization of Singapore, which included the Speak Mandarin campaign, pinyin names and etc. The reality is the groundwork for flooding Singapore with PRCs is being deceitfully laid. I reckon Devan Nair got wind of this which resulted in a clash between LKY and him. Sure, Devan drank a lot but Eddie Barker, Singapore’s first law minister, drank like fish too.
The post-Devan era was hell for local Indians. The marginalization and persecution of local Indians was so great that many educated local Indians fled Singapore. The severity was as much as for each local Chinese who quit Singapore, there were 3 local Indians. It then became impossible to find locally educated Indian grooms for our locally educated Indian brides. Hence, our immigration policy had to be changed to allow Indians from India for marriage… these Indians from India, whether male or female, integrated well into our society simply because the gist is that if you are good enough to marry my daughter, you are good enough for Singapore.
Now, let’s look at the new import of Indians from India. They came simply because the number of PRC imports had to be balanced. Hence, PAP started tweaking our demography. While PAP made a blunder in assuming that the PRC and local Chinese would blend well because of Mandarin as a common language and pinyin names, the import of Indians from India is premeditated and planned.
Since PAP knows rather well, in their diplomatic and political dealings with India, that it’s the Northern Indians in India who call the shots and also that almost all entrepreneurs and big
businesses in India are Northerners, PAP focuses their efforts in the North.
However, the situation in India has changed over the past 10 years because now, no single political party can rule India and therefore, South Indian based political parties are now the kingmakers in the coalition of ruling political parties. Also, the old trading system has given way to the new knowledge-based industries which South India leads in businesses now. PAP’s plans are thus, antiquated.
So, PAP having relied on its antiquated social engineering, made exactly the same blunder with Indians from India as it did with PRC. PAP promoted North Indians to locals through its media propaganda machinery. Remember the channel 5 serial drama “Acha” – an India Indian marrying a local Chinese girl? A subtle indoctrination…
PAP then opened the floodgates for North Indian graduates. And all the wrong people came. PAP people like George Yeo, our ex-foreign minister, professed to know about India and Indians when it is a lot more complex than they can understand. Why?
Let me explain.
In the few thousand years of Indian history, the South has been known for its brain while the North for its brawn. Even in ancient India, Chânakya (Sanskrit: चाणक्य Câṇakya) (c. 370–283 BCE) was an adviser to the first Maurya Emperor Chandragupta (c. 340–293 BCE), and generally was considered to be the architect of the Emperor’s rise to power. Chanakya was a South Indian. Even today, almost all IT industries, which the world recognizes India for, are in the South.
But most importantly, the Indianization of SEA thousands of years ago was entirely carried out by South Indians. Even Daruma (Bodhidharma), patriarch of Zen Buddhism in China and Japan, was a Tamil. Such is the connect between South India and SEA/Far East. Whereas for North India, historically and culturally, has always been in contact with the West and Middle East. Their eating habits, dressing, along with many other cultural traits, run similar.
Now, to get to the bottom of the matter as to why local Indians would never integrate with Indians from India, firstly, there is no common ground of shared poverty. This is unlike almost all early Singapore immigrants, whether Chinese or Indians, who came about precisely because of shared poverty.
Such integration is impossible since it’s like trying to club chickens and ducks together though both come under a single category of fowl. In short, try getting condo dwellers and three room HDB dwellers to integrate. Unless they share the same poverty, hardship or endeavor, like a stint in NS or schooling together, it’s hard for both local Indians and imported Indians to integrate.
Hence PAP’s integration policy is fundamentally flawed and integration would never happen. What PAP should avoid doing is to play GOD through social engineering. Even in India itself, the South and North are never integrated despite having a shared history of 5000 years. Perhaps LKY thinks he is a greater GOD than Brahma, Vishnu or Siva.
(NOTE: Even Indian GODs are generally divided between North and South. Lord Siva is the supreme GOD of South India whereas Vishnu is the supreme GOD of North India – Saivism vs Vaishnavism. Many wars in ancient India were fought along this line.)
.
A LOCAL INDIAN
* This comment was first posted on the thread “Help ‘integrate’ new citizens from India – PM Lee” ([URL]http://www.temasekreview.com/2011/07/18/help-integrate-new-citizens-from-india-pm-lee/[/URL]).
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I am in my late 60s now. I believe I know India more than most Indians from India. Because I had traveled to almost every nooks of India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and etc in the course of my work in the last 40 years. In fact, I had studied in India for a couple of years – something unusual for a local Indian. And here are my observations.
Some times after the visit of China’s strongman Deng to Singapore, Lee started the sinicization of Singapore, which included the Speak Mandarin campaign, pinyin names and etc. The reality is the groundwork for flooding Singapore with PRCs is being deceitfully laid. I reckon Devan Nair got wind of this which resulted in a clash between LKY and him. Sure, Devan drank a lot but Eddie Barker, Singapore’s first law minister, drank like fish too.
The post-Devan era was hell for local Indians. The marginalization and persecution of local Indians was so great that many educated local Indians fled Singapore. The severity was as much as for each local Chinese who quit Singapore, there were 3 local Indians. It then became impossible to find locally educated Indian grooms for our locally educated Indian brides. Hence, our immigration policy had to be changed to allow Indians from India for marriage… these Indians from India, whether male or female, integrated well into our society simply because the gist is that if you are good enough to marry my daughter, you are good enough for Singapore.
Now, let’s look at the new import of Indians from India. They came simply because the number of PRC imports had to be balanced. Hence, PAP started tweaking our demography. While PAP made a blunder in assuming that the PRC and local Chinese would blend well because of Mandarin as a common language and pinyin names, the import of Indians from India is premeditated and planned.
Since PAP knows rather well, in their diplomatic and political dealings with India, that it’s the Northern Indians in India who call the shots and also that almost all entrepreneurs and big
businesses in India are Northerners, PAP focuses their efforts in the North.
However, the situation in India has changed over the past 10 years because now, no single political party can rule India and therefore, South Indian based political parties are now the kingmakers in the coalition of ruling political parties. Also, the old trading system has given way to the new knowledge-based industries which South India leads in businesses now. PAP’s plans are thus, antiquated.
So, PAP having relied on its antiquated social engineering, made exactly the same blunder with Indians from India as it did with PRC. PAP promoted North Indians to locals through its media propaganda machinery. Remember the channel 5 serial drama “Acha” – an India Indian marrying a local Chinese girl? A subtle indoctrination…
PAP then opened the floodgates for North Indian graduates. And all the wrong people came. PAP people like George Yeo, our ex-foreign minister, professed to know about India and Indians when it is a lot more complex than they can understand. Why?
Let me explain.
In the few thousand years of Indian history, the South has been known for its brain while the North for its brawn. Even in ancient India, Chânakya (Sanskrit: चाणक्य Câṇakya) (c. 370–283 BCE) was an adviser to the first Maurya Emperor Chandragupta (c. 340–293 BCE), and generally was considered to be the architect of the Emperor’s rise to power. Chanakya was a South Indian. Even today, almost all IT industries, which the world recognizes India for, are in the South.
But most importantly, the Indianization of SEA thousands of years ago was entirely carried out by South Indians. Even Daruma (Bodhidharma), patriarch of Zen Buddhism in China and Japan, was a Tamil. Such is the connect between South India and SEA/Far East. Whereas for North India, historically and culturally, has always been in contact with the West and Middle East. Their eating habits, dressing, along with many other cultural traits, run similar.
Now, to get to the bottom of the matter as to why local Indians would never integrate with Indians from India, firstly, there is no common ground of shared poverty. This is unlike almost all early Singapore immigrants, whether Chinese or Indians, who came about precisely because of shared poverty.
Such integration is impossible since it’s like trying to club chickens and ducks together though both come under a single category of fowl. In short, try getting condo dwellers and three room HDB dwellers to integrate. Unless they share the same poverty, hardship or endeavor, like a stint in NS or schooling together, it’s hard for both local Indians and imported Indians to integrate.
Hence PAP’s integration policy is fundamentally flawed and integration would never happen. What PAP should avoid doing is to play GOD through social engineering. Even in India itself, the South and North are never integrated despite having a shared history of 5000 years. Perhaps LKY thinks he is a greater GOD than Brahma, Vishnu or Siva.
(NOTE: Even Indian GODs are generally divided between North and South. Lord Siva is the supreme GOD of South India whereas Vishnu is the supreme GOD of North India – Saivism vs Vaishnavism. Many wars in ancient India were fought along this line.)
.
A LOCAL INDIAN
* This comment was first posted on the thread “Help ‘integrate’ new citizens from India – PM Lee” ([URL]http://www.temasekreview.com/2011/07/18/help-integrate-new-citizens-from-india-pm-lee/[/URL]).
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:oIo:
