when it is time to speak up you better speak up

[Baluku]

Ezekiel 3:16-21 NIV

At the end of seven days the word of the Lord came to me: "Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the people of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me. When I say to a wicked person, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. But if you do warn the wicked person and they do not turn from their wickedness or from their evil ways, they will die for their sin; but you will have saved yourself. "Again, when a righteous person turns from their righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before them, they will die. Since you did not warn them, they will die for their sin. The righteous things that person did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. But if you do warn the righteous person not to sin and they do not sin, they will surely live because they took warning, and you will have saved yourself."

 

[drifter]

Jesus Speaking) If anyone comes to me without hating his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he can not be my disciple. (Luke 14:26 NAB)

 

[Psalm23]

Jesus Speaking) If anyone comes to me without hating his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he can not be my disciple. (Luke 14:26 NAB)

This is another example of the danger of reading and quoting just one single verse and then jumped to some negative conclusions about God's Holy Scripture. As I have mentioned several times, we have to read the preceding verses, and better still, the whole chapter to get a correct understanding of the teaching.

This verse (and the preceding verses of Luke 14:26) is about the first cost was with regard to family when you are testifying and/or actively involved in the ministry of Jesus of His impending death on the cross and resurrection from the grave. We heard even today, many parents are prepared to 'disown' their children when they have heard that their children have converted and become believers of the Gospel. Sadly, believers are fighting against not just flesh and blood but against the power of darkness. This dark force will tell the parents that as believers of Gospel your children will not be able to take care of you when you are gone. They wlll not worship you; they will not offer sacrifices to you, etc. So, the first cost of being a believer is usually regard to family (and this later followed by other cost the believers will have to bear such as being persecuted in the work place, etc).

What is being taught here is that as believers who are prepared to testify for Christ's finished work, we must be prepared to live our lives that are set apart from the world, and that has to begin setting ourselves apart from our family. But that doesn't mean that we have to leave our parents. or to abandon them. What this meant is that we are going to encounter alot of difficulties and challenges from our family members who are non-believers for our faith in Christ Jesus. Thus, those believers who ‘come to Him’ in order to follow Him must recognise that He must then mean more to them than their families. They must respond to His way of life and His words. They must love their families less than they love Him.

By way of note: The Greek word used here is regularly translated in modern versions as ‘hate’ and that is what it does often mean. But we must remember that when translating from one language to another, we often cannot find a perfect equivalent. The word 'hate' can mean "to love less" rather than in the strict sense of 'hate' that inherently encompasses feeling of anger and wanting to take revenge. This is not exactly what it meant here when the word is translated to 'hate' in English from Greek. Taking into the right context of what believers are to face (and many new converts can really testify this fact to you), it meant that in order to believe in the finished work of Jesus and in order to prepare ourselves to share the Good News, we have to love the world less, and this have to first began from our family, especially those with family whose backgrounds are in ancestor worship, idol worship and other pagen religions. Without this attitude of loving our family less, we cannot be a true believer let alone to share the Good News with the non-believers.

 

[fishbuff]

here's my favourite. kill everyone in the city if two or more have worshipped other gods.

Deuteronomy 13

New International Version (NIV)
Worshiping Other Gods

13 [a]If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. 16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt, 17 and none of the condemned things[c] are to be found in your hands. Then the Lord will turn from his fierce anger, will show you mercy, and will have compassion on you. He will increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your ancestors— 18 because you obey the Lord your God by keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes.

 

[drifter]

This is another example of the danger of reading and quoting just one single verse and then jumped to some negative conclusions about God's Holy Scripture. As I have mentioned several times, we have to read the preceding verses, and better still, the whole chapter to get a correct understanding of the teaching.

This verse (and the preceding verses of Luke 14:26) is about the first cost was with regard to family when you are testifying and/or actively involved in the ministry of Jesus of His impending death on the cross and resurrection from the grave. We heard even today, many parents are prepared to 'disown' their children when they have heard that their children have converted and become believers of the Gospel. Sadly, believers are fighting against not just flesh and blood but against the power of darkness. This dark force will tell the parents that as believers of Gospel your children will not be able to take care of you when you are gone. They wlll not worship you; they will not offer sacrifices to you, etc. So, the first cost of being a believer is usually regard to family (and this later followed by other cost the believers will have to bear such as being persecuted in the work place, etc).

What is being taught here is that as believers who are prepared to testify for Christ's finished work, we must be prepared to live our lives that are set apart from the world, and that has to begin setting ourselves apart from our family. But that doesn't mean that we have to leave our parents. or to abandon them. What this meant is that we are going to encounter alot of difficulties and challenges from our family members who are non-believers for our faith in Christ Jesus. Thus, those believers who ‘come to Him’ in order to follow Him must recognise that He must then mean more to them than their families. They must respond to His way of life and His words. They must love their families less than they love Him.

By way of note: The Greek word used here is regularly translated in modern versions as ‘hate’ and that is what it does often mean. But we must remember that when translating from one language to another, we often cannot find a perfect equivalent. The word 'hate' can mean "to love less" rather than in the strict sense of 'hate' that inherently encompasses feeling of anger and wanting to take revenge. This is not exactly what it meant here when the word is translated to 'hate' in English from Greek. Taking into the right context of what believers are to face (and many new converts can really testify this fact to you), it meant that in order to believe in the finished work of Jesus and in order to prepare ourselves to share the Good News, we have to love the world less, and this have to first began from our family, especially those with family whose backgrounds are in ancestor worship, idol worship and other pagen religions. Without this attitude of loving our family less, we cannot be a true believer let alone to share the Good News with the non-believers.

TELL YOU WHAT , WHY NOT I GIVE YOU A PEN AND FEW STACKS OF A4 SIZE PAPER AND YOU BE THE AUTHOR FOR THE NEXT VERSION OF BIBLE NO MATTER HOW YOU TRY TO TRANSLATE INTO GOOD WORKS THE WORDS ARE STIL THERE SHARE WITH YOU THIS PHOTO ...

 

[Psalm23]

TELL YOU WHAT , WHY NOT I GIVE YOU A PEN AND FEW STACKS OF A4 SIZE PAPER AND YOU BE THE AUTHOR FOR THE NEXT VERSION OF BIBLE ......

Thanks for the offer...but I have to decline....there is one and only one original version of the Bible...and it is authored by God Himself. All the translations are just translation from the original manuscripts which are in Hebrew or in Greek.

In case event, I really don't understand what you trying to say or arrive at.

 

[drifter]

Thanks for the offer...but I have to decline....there is one and only one original version of the Bible...and it is authored by God Himself. All the translations are just translation from the original manuscripts which are in Hebrew or in Greek.

In case event, I really don't understand what you trying to say or arrive at.

any proof that the bible is author by god ? are you trying to use your storybook to defence your storybook again ?

of course a delusion person cannot understand what im trying to say ..because in his eyes theres only the invisibleman

 

[Psalm23]

any proof that the bible is author by god ? are you trying to use your storybook to defence your storybook again ?

of course a delusion person cannot understand what im trying to say ..because in his eyes theres only the invisibleman

I have offered to your comrade....scientist (???) Rojak the challenge...to compute the statistical probability that the first verse of the Bible written in the original language of Hebrew to be written due to chance. But sadly, he went cold-feet and since then I have not heard to much from him. I have given him a clue....the chance that this verse (Genesis 1:1) written due to chance is 1/10 to the 12th power (at the minimum). Unless some divine being was involved in the writting, this verse couldn't have been written. A latest exchange of the message has indicated to me he was giving his excuse that he is now involved in an important project and couldn't have the time to write. I think this just his limp excuse! I believe he simply went cold-feet. May be you want to check it out with him.

My offer to you now: Go search in the google for Bible gematria and you can see that there are dozens of verses in the OT (written in Hebrew) and NT (written in Greek) when converted to numerals would have given you some mathemactical (or gematria) structure that only modern computer could discover. These mathematical reflect that the Holy Scriptures are written with total order that could only be guided by the divine hand of God. These are very clear signs that the Bible cannot be written by men. God is thus the Sole-Author of this Book!

 

[drifter]

I have offered to your comrade....scientist (???) Rojak the challenge...to compute the statistical probability that the first verse of the Bible written in the original language of Hebrew to be written due to chance. But sadly, he went cold-feet and since then I have not heard to much from him. I have given him a clue....the chance that this verse (Genesis 1:1) written due to chance is 1/10 to the 12th power (at the minimum). Unless some divine being was involved in the writting, this verse couldn't have been written. A latest exchange of the message has indicated to me he was giving his excuse that he is now involved in an important project and couldn't have the time to write. I think this just his limp excuse! I believe he simply went cold-feet. May be you want to check it out with him.

My offer to you now: Go search in the google for Bible gematria and you can see that there are dozens of verses in the OT (written in Hebrew) and NT (written in Greek) when converted to numerals would have given you some mathemactical (or gematria) structure that only modern computer could discover. These mathematical reflect that the Holy Scriptures are written with total order that could only be guided by the divine hand of God. These are very clear signs that the Bible cannot be written by men. God is thus the Sole-Author of this Book!

bible gematria ? whahahahaha ... just because of bible gematria you think that the bible is written by god ? biblical gematria could be conjecture or coincidence or both. but many christains like you maintain that they underscore the divine inspiration of both old and new testaments and so build faith in God's word


even today some small groups of people believe in ancient notions, which we find in the practices of numerology, the occult practice of decoding names and birthdays into numbers, and in the psuedo science of gematria. while it is interesting to study the relationship between numbers associated with words and the various ideas expressed within the Bible, gematria is not considered a true science because it does not give us the necessary tools for making meaningful predictions about our world. all established sciences use recognized procedures to create a hypothesis, which can be proven or disproved by principles of independent verification.

while gematria is discounted by modern science and considered unproductive, the basic impulse, which attracts us to its study, is the same impulse that attracts us to science and applied mathematics. i once heard a bible class where the speaker was taking strong's numbers and adding and subtracting them from each other, and then looking up the meanings of the results, and making "points" about it. that is very funny indeed ,but fortunately, too much obsession with numbers is becoming rarer.



please enjoy watching this video

[video=youtube;wyNi7bYt0v0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyNi7bYt0v0&feature=player_embedded#![/video]




PS : the eye sees what the wants to see

 

[drifter]

[video=youtube;T79uaP_Kx6E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T79uaP_Kx6E[/video]

 

[Psalm23]

bible gematria ? whahahahaha ... just because of bible gematria you think that the bible is written by god ? biblical gematria could be conjecture or coincidence or both. but many christains like you maintain that they underscore the divine inspiration of both old and new testaments and so build faith in God's word

even today some small groups of people believe in ancient notions, which we find in the practices of numerology, the occult practice of decoding names and birthdays into numbers, and in the psuedo science of gematria. while it is interesting to study the relationship between numbers associated with words and the various ideas expressed within the Bible, gematria is not considered a true science because it does not give us the necessary tools for making meaningful predictions about our world. all established sciences use recognized procedures to create a hypothesis, which can be proven or disproved by principles of independent verification.

while gematria is discounted by modern science and considered unproductive, the basic impulse, which attracts us to its study, is the same impulse that attracts us to science and applied mathematics. i once heard a bible class where the speaker was taking strong's numbers and adding and subtracting them from each other, and then looking up the meanings of the results, and making "points" about it. that is very funny indeed ,but fortunately, too much obsession with numbers is becoming rarer.

(a)just because of bible gematria you think that the bible is written by god - You have missed the point. The gematria is embeded for the following reasons:

- The texts in the Bible cannot be written randomly, and the order of the mathematcially structure pertaining to many texts point to the fact that the texts were written with 'Someone' guiding them. Christians believe this "Someone' is the God of the Creation.

- The Bible gematria is used to preseve the purity of God's word. All one needs is to simply change a tiny word, the whole gematria (or mathematical) structure of the verse is destroyed. In the Book of Revelation, God has warned us not to add or delete any word from His Holy Scriptures. This gematia is like a 'copyright' tool used by God to claim His absolute authorship of the scriptures.

- Note also that many (in almost all who wrote the messages of the Bible) have never been known to be trained in mathematics. For example, many of the Gospel writers and epitles written fot the NT were people with very low education.

- For the average believers, we wouldn't have the ability to go into this topic (and I think we shouldn't spend much time on this). We don't need to go into the Bible gematria to understand the Bible. As mentioned above, the Bible gematriia is simply a 'copyright' tool used by God to protect and preserve His words because God knew far in advance that they are going to have 'many adulterated' versions of His Holy Scriputres and He has mysteriously come out with this system to protect and to preserve the purity of His words. [You and your comrades have brought up this several time: Why there are so many Bible 'versions"....no..there is only one...the one that fully satistify the Bible gematria...those that do not satistify the Bible gematria are counterfeits).

- The numeral system that is embeded in the language of Hebrew and Greek is the only official unique numeral system and no other world languages have this system. It is made for a special reason - to protect and preserve the purity of God's words.

(b) we find in the practices of numerology, the occult practice of decoding names and birthdays into numbers, and in the psuedo science of gematria

- For Christians, it is not important that we must not involve in any occult like fortune-telling in poker cards or go and predict our future using birthday dates etc. In fact, we are told to stay away from all these as they are, biblically-speaking, from the devil (as you also have rightly pointed out, they are occult practices.

- However, with the invention of computer and for some who are more numerate-oriented, they just want to explore and under the mystery of the Bible gematria. This is perfectly alright.

 

[drifter]

(a)just because of bible gematria you think that the bible is written by god - You have missed the point. The gematria is embeded for the following reasons:

- The texts in the Bible cannot be written randomly, and the order of the mathematcially structure pertaining to many texts point to the fact that the texts were written with 'Someone' guiding them. Christians believe this "Someone' is the God of the Creation.

- The Bible gematria is used to preseve the purity of God's word. All one needs is to simply change a tiny word, the whole gematria (or mathematical) structure of the verse is destroyed. In the Book of Revelation, God has warned us not to add or delete any word from His Holy Scriptures. This gematia is like a 'copyright' tool used by God to claim His absolute authorship of the scriptures.

- Note also that many (in almost all who wrote the messages of the Bible) have never been known to be trained in mathematics. For example, many of the Gospel writers and epitles written fot the NT were people with very low education.

- For the average believers, we wouldn't have the ability to go into this topic (and I think we shouldn't spend much time on this). We don't need to go into the Bible gematria to understand the Bible. As mentioned above, the Bible gematriia is simply a 'copyright' tool used by God to protect and preserve His words because God knew far in advance that they are going to have 'many adulterated' versions of His Holy Scriputres and He has mysteriously come out with this system to protect and to preserve the purity of His words. [You and your comrades have brought up this several time: Why there are so many Bible 'versions"....no..there is only one...the one that fully satistify the Bible gematria...those that do not satistify the Bible gematria are counterfeits).

- The numeral system that is embeded in the language of Hebrew and Greek is the only official unique numeral system and no other world languages have this system. It is made for a special reason - to protect and preserve the purity of God's words.

(b) we find in the practices of numerology, the occult practice of decoding names and birthdays into numbers, and in the psuedo science of gematria

- For Christians, it is not important that we must not involve in any occult like fortune-telling in poker cards or go and predict our future using birthday dates etc. In fact, we are told to stay away from all these as they are, biblically-speaking, from the devil (as you also have rightly pointed out, they are occult practices.

- However, with the invention of computer and for some who are more numerate-oriented, they just want to explore and under the mystery of the Bible gematria. This is perfectly alright.

" The texts in the Bible cannot be written randomly, and the order of the mathematcially structure pertaining to many texts point to the fact that the texts were written with 'Someone' guiding them. Christians believe this "Someone' is the God of the Creation ".


WHO TOLD YOU THAT THE STORYBOOK CANNOT BE WRITTEN RANDOMLY ? HAVE YOU SEEN THE WHOLE VIDEO THAT I POSTED ? YES , CHISTIANS BELIEVE THAT THE STORYBOOK IS WRITTEN BY THE INVISIBLEMAN ...BUT BELIEVING IS ONE THING AND FACTS IS ANOTHER THING


" The Bible gematria is used to preseve the purity of God's word. All one needs is to simply change a tiny word, the whole gematria (or mathematical) structure of the verse is destroyed. In the Book of Revelation, God has warned us not to add or delete any word from His Holy Scriptures. This gematia is like a 'copyright' tool used by God to claim His absolute authorship of the scriptures " .

OH ...REALLY ? THEN WHY DO YOU HAVE SO MANY DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THAT STORYBOOK ? IF YOUR INVISIBLEMAN WANTED TO SPREAD HIS WORDS ...DO YOU THINK HE WILL USE GEMATRIA TO HIDE HIS WORDS WHICH HE WANTED YOU TO KNOW ? WOW .... YOU ARE REALLY NOT VERY SMART SO DID YOUR INVISIBLEMAN PUT A FEW DINOSUARS BONE TO TEST YOUR FAITH TOO


" - For Christians, it is not important that we must not involve in any occult like fortune-telling in poker cards or go and predict our future using birthday dates etc. In fact, we are told to stay away from all these as they are, biblically-speaking, from the devil (as you also have rightly pointed out, they are occult practices ".



EVEN YOUR STORYBOOK IS OCCULT PRACTICES IT TEACH THAT ITS OK TO ABUSE , MURDER AND USING VIOLENCE ALL IN THE NAME OF THE INVISIBLEMAN . YOU CALL OTHER RELIGION AS DEVIL ..WHAT ABOUT YOURS ? WOW...WHAT A SELF-CENTRE RELIGION YOU HAVE