• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

Time to disband Chiam's Singapore People's Party

RandomNexus

Alfrescian
Loyal
Good views by Scroobal, Macro and TF.

We now can look back and saw the mistakes made in the past.

In the beginning, it was Chiam and people like Fok Tai Loy who started the journey in an era dominated by fear and constant arrest of opposition figures by ISD. It was a pity that Fok Tai Loy died early and his name was unknown to most Singaporeans. He could have won a seat in the early eighties when there was a tide rising for more opposition voices.

Chiam made the mistakes of bringing not-so-bright folks like Ling, Cheo and Wong Hong Toy into his party. Does he have a choice? I also have to argue there was a dearth of good bright folks wanting to enter into opposition politics. Clearly he could have done better and scrutinise who he brought in. All these 3 turned out to be incompetent and clueless, and turning against Chiam with CSJ was a big mistake. Clearly they were unaware that the public would turn against them. It was Chiam and SDP that was the brandname of that day. Without it, Ling and Cheo would struggle and they thought they were the ones who went in by their own effort. Well the same thing happened again when these 2 folks turned against CSJ themselves much later on. Ling and Cheo are representative of some the folks in SBF, clueless and love to shout but they underperformed as MPs and not surprisingly were soon booted out. The average Singaporean whom some of you in this forum like to decry, turns out to be savvy and aware of what he wants. He is more sophisticated than what many of us give credit to.

The folks can shout and criticise Chiam etc. Really, how many of you would dare step out there and stand against the mighty MIW? Now this is a different era with the advent of social media, and open criticism is now tolerated and MIW does not dare to employ the oppressive mechanisms of its early days. Sammyboy was started in an era where fear dominated in the streets and folks here were able to express what they could not do. Of course, it now went to the ridiculous extreme end.

Give Chiam his due. He did what few dared. He won PP consecutively with increasing margins against firstly, MBT who was rated a must-be Minister by LKY and later other MIW folks. Due to Chiam's presence as MP and need to guard against how people felt about matters, the government backtracked on the unpopular graduate Mothers scheme and also CPF-late retirement withdrawal. PP was the beacon in the eighties till the entry of LTK in 1991. Agree much with Scroobal that without Chiam and including JBJ, there will be no LTK and the present WP of today.

The only thing Chiam did not do is to gather good men. Desmond Lim, a stout-hearted folk who laboured besides Chiam, just did not cut out to be an opposition leader. As long as you speak broken English and unable to articulate out your views, you cannot make it. There were possibilities like Wilfred Leung and Benjamin Pwee but they too fell out. That is a pity. TJS was said to be interested to join this grouping but Chiam was suspicious of him. Chiam might well be right.

There was the SDA, a grouping of conveniences that turned out to benefit no one as these opposition folks can ride on Chiam's name. Again, I will say the average voter is not dumb to see through a grouping of conveniences. We can say the eighties and nineties could not raise good men of calibre and in year 2000 onwards, more are coming forth. Yet Chiam faltered and the bad decision was to put out Lina Chiam. Was it not obvious that PP folks now turned against Lina Chiam in the last election?

The journey is tough for any opposition folk and it was now time for Chiam to retire to a good name and the good fight he has put up. SPP need not be close but inevitably the inability to grow beyond Chiam, is already a death knell.

Give Chiam his dues and nobody could have done what he has done.
 

KuanTi01

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
No matter how you slice and dice this, it was a party coup and it was a direct result of the Chee's hunger strike. They chose Chee over Chiam. Yes, it was unanimous and they thought they had a ready leader in Chee and gambled on it. In essence thats fine and that the way organisations resolve disputes and clear roadblocks. To me the fault lies clearly with Chiam as he brought in the CEC and the manner he ran the party. And he paid the price. He thus started on a new journey.

However for Chee and SDP did it pay out in the short or the long term. Look at what happened to the CEC and the people who voted against Chiam since the ouster. Where are they? Look at the 2006 GE when the entire CEC went against Chee and his sister. And some of them complained to the press bitterly including Ling. People were shocked by what was said in the press.

The ouster took place nearly 24 years ago. What happened to the party since then. Not a single candidate has crossed he 40% mark. Look at the retention factor and look at the present make-up. Do you even know who cast the most influence over Chee in last 10 years. Why did the 2011 candidates who joined the party that year all leave.

You might have a leg to stand on with your post if the ouster took place recently but Chee had 24 years to rebuild with the members of the CEC that unanimously outvoted Chiam and start his own journey. Chaim was no longer a part of SDP and was history.

On paper, no doubt Dr Chee had 24 long years to rebuild and reshape the party with the ultimate aim of being a credible and responsible opposition party and making inroads into Parliament. Well, I believe they have succeeded admirably in the former but not the latter; through no fault of theirs. The people remember all the shenanigans, road-blocks , public shame, prosecutions and persecution brought to bear on Dr. Chee. It's simply wonderful that he is still fighting on. He is certainly no quitter! Above all, he remains a big thorn in the PAP's flesh today and he is not even elected to Parliament!. Chiam, while he was running his little fiefdom in PP was never a thorn as far as the PAP is concerned. At most, he is just a little naughty schoolboy irritant. Only the indomitable JBJ strikes real fear in the PAP! On the issue of SDP CEC members, well let me just say in passing that it is fashionable and unremarkable for them to play musical chairs and/or switch allegiances. It is true democracy in action. They are free to come and go. Many have passed on; one or two has switched camps and basically the rest have given up on politics. I see that as natural attrition and self-renewal. Unlike many others, Dr.Chee is no dictator! :rolleyes:
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Have to disagree about he being a torn in PAP side. In 2004, at the age of 79, JBJ appealed to the courts and offered to pay 20%, but Davinder and the OA refused to budge and he lost the appeal. Finally at the age of 81, they agreed to accept $233K. One year later and 3 months after forming the Reform Party he died.

In the case of Chee, the settlement was less than 3% for what they could got for and at the age of 52. If he was indeed a torn, the PAP being the vindictive by nature would not have agreed. They also realised that 2011 did not work for them with Chee out of the running but the party was fielding quality candidates. They have a measure of the man. He needs to change to get them.

On paper, no doubt Dr Chee had 24 long years to rebuild and reshape the party with the ultimate aim of being a credible and responsible opposition party and making inroads into Parliament. Well, I believe they have succeeded admirably in the former but not the latter; through no fault of theirs. The people remember all the shenanigans, road-blocks , public shame, prosecutions and persecution brought to bear on Dr. Chee. It's simply wonderful that he is still fighting on. He is certainly no quitter! Above all, he remains a big thorn in the PAP's flesh today and he is not even elected to Parliament!. Chiam, while he was running his little fiefdom in PP was never a thorn as far as the PAP is concerned. At most, he is just a little naughty schoolboy irritant. Only the indomitable JBJ strikes real fear in the PAP! On the issue of SDP CEC members, well let me just say in passing that it is fashionable and unremarkable for them to play musical chairs and/or switch allegiances. It is true democracy in action. They are free to come and go. Many have passed on; one or two has switched camps and basically the rest have given up on politics. I see that as natural attrition and self-renewal. Unlike many others, Dr.Chee is no dictator! :rolleyes:
 

GoldenDragon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Have to disagree about he being a torn in PAP side. In 2004, at the age of 79, JBJ appealed to the courts and offered to pay 20%, but Davinder and the OA refused to budge and he lost the appeal. Finally at the age of 81, they agreed to accept $233K. One year later and 3 months after forming the Reform Party he died.

In the case of Chee, the settlement was less than 3% for what they could got for and at the age of 52. If he was indeed a torn, the PAP being the vindictive by nature would not have agreed. They also realised that 2011 did not work for them with Chee out of the running but the party was fielding quality candidates. They have a measure of the man. He needs to change to get them.

Good points, with stats to back up.
 

MaximiLian

Alfrescian
Loyal
It served its purpose as a vehicle for Chaim after the SDP leadership coup in 1992 and it served him and the residents of Potong Pasir well. Its fortunes has dipped since 2011 and in 2015 it performed well below par compared to others despite having some good candidates.

Its best that Ben Pwee and Jeantte Chong-Aruldoss and the team and supporters form a new party to attract like-minded individuals. DAP does not have a decent history but it does have some level of established opposition networks though ageing amongst the Chinese speaking segment of society. The party name and brand however would be a show stopper to bring in credible candidate material.

Singapore cannot accommodate many political parties due to size but it will at least need one other opposition party with some appreciable bench strength. 2011 and 2015 show that opposition candidates are out there but have difficulty finding the right party with the right platform. Existing parties are either tainted or personality driven such as SPP and does not help individual candidates to raise a reasonable profile.

Workers Party is seen as too rigid and too cautious as result of their past experience where they could have faced closure due to individual party members conduct. The gestation period of potential candidates in this time and age of comparatively more fluid movements does not attract enough candidates. It is therefore important that another quality party is formed. In 2011 SDP accommodated many quality candidates who were not party members but became one for convenience and it does show that there are people out there.

IB spotted. Chiam is the most credible opposition ever, being the longest ever serving Oppo MP!
 

bigboss

Alfrescian
Loyal
Chiam and his wife should have folded up and move on. I can't stand the sight of Lina Chiam trying to get the limelight by always standing beside her frail and obsolete Chiam See Tong.

This couple are the best projection of today's state opposition party.


Frail and incompetent.

CST is already half dead while his wife does not have the charisma to lead a political party. It was really pathetic during GE 2015 to see CST trying to garner support for his party, which is now as good as habis.
 

kkbutterfly

Alfrescian
Loyal
Chaim is basically a delusional character. He thinks that he is a a political heavyweight. The truth is that he is the ideal opposition. No bark, no bite and no brains. What has Chiam really done?? The honest truth is that besides showing his mathematical incompetence and batting his eyes. A complete NOTHING. He has the audacity to think that he stood a chance out of PP. Like the frog who jumped out of his pond suddenly realised how big the lake is , drowns. PP is not Chiam's legacy. he was there because LKY knew that he was and is more more than a kitten and left him there. If Chiam were capable, LKY would have send someone else there to take the seat. He didn't bother because he knew better than that. Chiam See Tong is a complete loser who could not even keep his house in order. The PAP would spare no effort tearing down down those who has the ability to stand against them, JBJ, CSJ FS and many others whom I sure all of you know. Except Chaim See Tong because he is a useless nothing. Let the truth be made known.

have to agreed with u.
lky willing to keep 2 kittens ltk and cst because their meow are who they are.
JBJ, CSJ FS poisonous bark send shockwave to lky
 

JohnTan

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
The problem is too many indian chiefs wanting their own territory. Kenneth Jeyaretnam, Goh Meng Seng, Tan Jee Say, Desmond Lim, and Lina Chiam do not want to be second in command. Most they will concede to is coming together under a common alliance to avoid 3 cornered fights and possibly share candidates. Even that is problematic when egos start clashing, as past events have shown.

The problem is, other than WP, none of the other opposition parties have territory.

A successful political part with a viable chance of winning elections needs to have a sizeable grassroots network. SDP has a core of fervent leftists, but they seem disorganized in grassroots work and spend more time talking cock.

Better for the opposition parties to just give up, or pool all their resources together. Individually, nobody gives a shit about their little parties.
 
Top