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Thio Su Mien Bizzarre Behaviour at RTC Press Conference

SneeringTree

Alfrescian
Loyal
I maybe short sighted and bias here but I notice that religious converts have a serious issue with being honest. I see that with at least the major religions. They tend to bend arguments to suit their cause no matter how ridiculous it is.

My Ockam's explanation is that they are so pathologically subsumed by their religion that all common sense and virutes can be sidestepped to pursue their divine goals (as defined by themselves).

By the way did you read SPH Ang Pai, Chua Mui Hoong's column today? It is by far the most cogent piece she has written (since she joined SPH). Very very critical of Thio and her bitches. And very telling of the MIW's official stance towards these religious fanatics. I think whatever social capital the self-styled Feminist Mentor has will be depleted completely at the end of this saga.

When you push people too much, don't expect to get out alive. Particularly when truth, empathy and openness are never your strong suits.
 

bellepepper02

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Shades of Arifin and the 377A debate, All Arifin said was that he was younger and he believed in the cause of liberalization of society and that he believe section 377a would be repealed and that he would live to see it and that when his homosexuality was accepted he would dance and piss on Thio Li Ann's grave seeing as in all probability he would outlive her. That became a police report and a " death threat"

Sorry but I am not buying this death "threat" one bit.



Locke

Police should explore all angles in investigating these death threats. Including looking at whether they sent it to themselves.

After all, who else benefitted from the threats but themselves. They can now be seen as victims, as martyrs, earning huge public sympathy. Also, the so-called death threats allow them to depict liberals as militant.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
My Ockam's explanation is that they are so pathologically subsumed by their religion that all common sense and virutes can be sidestepped to pursue their divine goals (as defined by themselves).

By the way did you read SPH Ang Pai, Chua Mui Hoong's column today? It is by far the most cogent piece she has written (since she joined SPH). Very very critical of Thio and her bitches. And very telling of the MIW's official stance towards these religious fanatics. I think whatever social capital the self-styled Feminist Mentor has will be depleted completely at the end of this saga.

When you push people too much, don't expect to get out alive. Particularly when truth, empathy and openness are never your strong suits.

On the road at the moment. Could some kind soul do a cut and paste on Chua Mui Hoong artcile. Thanks for the headsup bro.
 

SneeringTree

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Loyal
On the road at the moment. Could some kind soul do a cut and paste on Chua Mui Hoong artcile. Thanks for the headsup bro.

Some of the references are definitely aimed at Thio family specifically. I think that the government must be pissed and alarmed that even after these religious nutcase won in the decrimilization of gay sex debate; it is still not good enough for their pathological minds.

Aware saga: A new militancy emerges
Chua Mui Hoong, Senior Writer

25 April 2009


Tolerance is critical in the public sphere in a multi-religious society

THE battle lines have been drawn. And it is not just between Aware's new executive committee and its old guard.

The leading women's advocacy group saw a stunning leadership change when newcomers captured nine of 12 executive committee posts at the group's annual general meeting on March 28. Older members questioned their motives as well as the sudden influx of new members who joined Aware just months before the AGM.

Four members of the new exco held a press conference on Thursday evening. At the same time as the press conference was proceeding at Raffles Town Club, an exco meeting was called at Aware's Dover Road premises. The new team sacked the Aware centre's manager, a paid employee, changed the locks at the Aware office and had a stand-off with old guard members who turned up later.

Some see this episode as a 'catfight' among ambitious women. Others see it as a tussle for control of a prominent women's advocacy group, three of whose presidents have served as Nominated Members of Parliament.

With four of the new exco members attending the same church - and having the same 'feminist mentor' in the shape of lawyer Thio Su Mien - and all espousing 'pro-family', anti-gay sentiments, some are calling this a fight between the Christian Right and the Gay Lobby.

There is also an intra-Christian element here. For even within the Christian community, there is concern about religious zeal spilling over into the public sphere and giving Christianity an unduly aggressive image in peaceful, multi-religious Singapore.

Some of the new exco members have been reportedly threatened, with one receiving a death threat. Even if that were the act of an eccentric, threats of violence against activists should never be condoned and Singaporeans must be firm in denouncing such behaviour.

There is such a cauldron of emotions swirling over this issue that it is hard to take a cool look at it. But that is precisely what is needed - a hard-headed look at why this issue has roiled so many people.

At the risk of stating the obvious, religion mixed with socio-political controversies is always a combustible combination. Especially when faiths are interpreted in a fundamentalist way.

Tolerance and accommodation are critical attitudes for people of different faiths to adopt towards one another in the public sphere. Religion can be divisive, especially when it insists on a religiously-informed view on any particular social, moral or cultural issue.

Secular, multi-religious societies must draw a line between what is acceptable and what is not in the public domain. There is nothing objectionable about zeal for one's faith per se. But action aimed at invalidating or challenging other religions or enforcing a particular religious view on everyone can have harmful social and political consequences in a multi-religious society.

It is especially troublesome when people go beyond spreading their religious beliefs to attempting to legislate their preferred moral practices. For example, they may believe that the moral values their church subscribes to should govern civil law. So if their church says homosexuality and abortion are grievous sins, then the laws of the land should outlaw such practices, even if many other people do not agree.

The so-called Christian Right has made its presence felt in recent years: in opposing the setting up of casinos, and in lobbying against a motion to repeal section 377A of the Penal Code which criminalises sex between males.

While other religions too have been vocal on these issues, they have adopted a live-and-let-live attitude, preferring to preach to their own flock than convert others. The Christian Right is more organised, vocal about claiming public space for debate, and savvy in using constitutional means to advance its causes.

Concern over just where religious and social zeal will lead the new Aware leadership is the reason many have reacted strongly to news of its grab for power. Many are concerned that this group has established a benchmark for religiously inspired activism that may well be emulated by people of other faiths.

It would have been different if the group and its mentor Dr Thio had been upfront about their association. It would have been even better if they had formed their own organisation to propagate their social plans.

But their decision, from the looks of it, to use Aware as a convenient organisation to launch their cause has raised eyebrows. While the new group was properly elected, its method has sown mistrust. They were not a model of transparent organisation.

In recent years, much attention, for good reason, has been focused on Islamic fundamentalism, given the violence of militant groups claiming Islam as their inspiration. But religious fundamentalism of all kinds can do harm - not necessarily to the physical body but certainly to the body politic of a multi-faith society - if it invalidates others' faiths and seeks to use the law to suppress the practices of minority groups.

Singapore has long guarded its public sphere and common space zealously to keep it free from religious strife. We should be no less vigilant in guarding against new forms of militancy that may harm the body politic.
 

Cthulhu

Alfrescian
Loyal
You'll be surprised at the number of homosexuals amongst the banking community. It seems their temperament is very suitable for this profession. I have no problems with them because they keep their personal lives to themselves. I do have a problem with these aggressive Christian types who turn their offices into mini churches.

Last time I went for an interview. While waiting for the interviewer, I took a glance at their notice board and noticed it was full of X'tian related activities/ announcements.

Although my potential boss and environment seems nice enough, I decided to turn them down. Spider sense tingling like hell ...
 

bellepepper02

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Loyal
Just wanted to add to Yawning Bread's fabulous post on their motives. Why did Thio Su Mien decide to reveal her hand?

She revealed her hand on the same day that her email correspondence to church members was posted up on Straits Times' STOMP webpage. But about four or five days before this, there were already whisperings that there was such an email out there, vilifying AWARE and urging Church members to take over the organization.

She knew her game was up, so she used the moment to at least gain some positive advantage, ie to show herself as upfront and honest about her motivation.
 

bellepepper02

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Loyal
This is the Comprehensive Sex Education Programs that Thio Su Mien is talking about. It looks alrigh to me and nothing along the lines that Thio claimed it was. In fact if you look at the underlined links, the expected outcome of the program should delight staunch conservatives.

Anyone out there has any light to throw on this program. How did lesbianism get into the program.

[/B][/COLOR]

At the press conference yesterday, AWARE older members fronted the person who had designed the programme. Can't remember her name. She was a psychologist, and she spoke of how she had been selected by AWARE. She said she had been rigorously questioned by the AWARE leadership on her approach and methodology towards sex education. Later, the programme was audited by external counsellors and school personnel, among others, before it was launched.

The AWARE old guard commented that the gay sexuality issue was a "miniscule" part of the programme. They said they had to include it because gay sexuality does exist and the programme could not have been promoted as "comprehensive" otherwise. They also said that AWARE is against being anti anything (i.e. being anti-gay).
 

Einfield

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Loyal
It's been the same old story. Trying to impose one's personal values on other people or group of people, using an association as vehicle, disguised as trying to do good, and the perpetrator actually believes that's good, when nothing is clear is neutral clear-minded as good or evil. Why do some people can't stand other people doing something personal and harmless to others and considered harmless by those who participate with consent? Resort to using personal power and societal influence to stop others or ostracize or even criminalize others? Intolerance and urgue to impose oneself's definition of self-righteousness on others may well the be the de facto biggest hunmanity crime and mental illness.

In short, Taliban Singapore style
 

oli9

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Loyal
Now its official. AWARE is being run by over zealous Christians. Just be careful whom we put in places of authority. These christians are here to brainwash & stuff the Jesus thingy into your throats esp the women folks. Im sure Pussy Lau & Old Hag Thio are not of God material. What garciousness? What peace loving? Are they trying to play God?
 

denzuko1

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Loyal
Now its official. AWARE is being run by over zealous Christians. Just be careful whom we put in places of authority. These christians are here to brainwash & stuff the Jesus thingy into your throats esp the women folks. Im sure Pussy Lau & Old Hag Thio are not of God material. What garciousness? What peace loving? Are they trying to play God?

Well, tested on me before, it did not work. Now my ex is very sure I will be condamn to hell.

The thing is that if you have enough conrfidence of yourselves and your purpose in life, the Christian tactic won't work on you. Some how they wtill don't understand why.
 

KKC007

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Loyal
In recent years, much attention, for good reason, has been focused on Islamic fundamentalism, given the violence of militant groups claiming Islam as their inspiration. But religious fundamentalism of all kinds can do harm - not necessarily to the physical body but certainly to the body politic of a multi-faith society - if it invalidates others' faiths and seeks to use the law to suppress the practices of minority groups.

Did she just compared the new ex-co with Islamic Fundamentalist? Is that a subtle warning?
 

lockeliberal

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Dear Lon

Apparently VP Josie runs a department of two :_))). Well I believe that qualifies her to run a national organization or was she chosen for her relationship and her ideological purity. ?



Locke
 

lockeliberal

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Loyal
Dear Scroobal

Dr Thio or Darth Thio is so so so dead. Teo Chee Hean talking about tolerance and inclusiveness ...sounding like the old AWARE. Two other ministers stating the same line, all saying its not a national issue but yet all coming out and indirectly criticizing Darth Thio, and finally that ST paragon of the Gov line talking about xtian militancy

She is from what I gather quite senior within the PAP, but she has stepped on the toes of the gov. An interview without coffee is on the table over the weekend. One should select better puppets when one seeks to be a puppet master.



Locke
 
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Porfirio Rubirosa

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Bloody hypocrites, humbug:rolleyes:
I have a colleague (am now in a local outfit) who will only recruit Christians for his team. The Snr Mgt seems to tolerate this as long as no one complains. It's quite funny watching these people play at being capitalists (ie. lie and cheat for $) during the day and run along to their prayer group meeting after 6pm.
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

Alfrescian
Loyal
OIC...thanks for the clarification...not suprised by Dr Thio's behaviour...trying to be a 'crafty devil' eh?...although it perhaps looks like she picked the wrong mentees afterall...bit off more than they could chew...blown up in her self righteous face, although according to TNP's Ng Tze Yong she was calm and serene amongst the emotional outburts at RTC...best excerpts in ST

ST Q: Sure, but i still don't understand why Dr Thio didn't run for an exco position, someone with her qualifications and background?

Exco member Lois Ng: Honestly, Aware is too small an outfit for her (DR Thio). Its for newbies like us.

ST Q: Dr Thio are you implyiong that you have thought of it for a long time, that you planned all this?

DR Thio: No, no. No, no, I have better things to do than this, okay? I have to earn a living, i work and do a lot of other things.

Must also give credit to Chua Mui Hoong at getting to the heart of the issue in her ST piece "Aware saga: A new militancy emerges" where she shines the light on the rise of the Christian Right and the dangers it may bring on to Singapore's body politic of a multi-faith society...also ST's editorial "Aware: Now the public knows"...where it opined "But if the team's (Josie and her pussycats) work were to carry an overtly religious flavouring, Aware could lose its abiding strength. It has been non religious, not much different from saying it is non racial. Keep it that way..."

As she is not in the ex-co and does not hold any position, she did not have to show her hand at RTC. There is another group at the same church that are forcing this lot to come clean as they too were receipients of Thio's email. That pressure forced her out. I am told that this group isd also pro-family but does not like the dishonest way that this was done.

Ryan Goh, our former erstwhile SIA pilot, authorered a petition letter, sought signatures for it and he himself did not sign it. It took ISD to find the eventual author. On that single point, old man crucified the Pilots Association at the Istana and they folded as their credibility was shot to pieces.

Thio did the same. By way of Deception seems to be motto of this lot.
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

Alfrescian
Loyal
Definitely one of younger sis Chua's better pieces, my compliements to her this time...and yes Dr Thios's social capital may be fast depleting but looking at her smug self righteous face I think she shall survive, also do not forget that she still has the support of the christian right...also note Teo Chee Hean's curious statement on this matter "He did not think the dispute was one of religion":rolleyes::p
).

By the way did you read SPH Ang Pai, Chua Mui Hoong's column today? It is by far the most cogent piece she has written (since she joined SPH). Very very critical of Thio and her bitches. And very telling of the MIW's official stance towards these religious fanatics. I think whatever social capital the self-styled Feminist Mentor has will be depleted completely at the end of this saga.

When you push people too much, don't expect to get out alive. Particularly when truth, empathy and openness are never your strong suits.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
LOL - "Darth Thio" Good one bro. Loved it.

Guess what, the bigs have lined up behind Margaret Thomas. Apparently its no longer a non-political issue. Education Department has been dragged in. Have been told that the program was vetted and endorsed. You can't have a sex education program and pretend that no gays exist and its a minor in content. I also understand that they have reviewed it on an urgent basis and they have no clue how Thio came to think that Lesbianism was being encouraged.

Dear Scroobal

Dr Thio or Darth Thio is so so so dead. Teo Chee Hean talking about tolerance and inclusiveness ...sounding like the old AWARE. Two other ministers stating the same line, all saying its not a national issue but yet all coming out and indirectly criticizing Darth Thio, and finally that ST paragon of the Gov line talking about xtian militancy

She is from what I gather quite senior within the PAP, but she has stepped on the toes of the gov. An interview without coffee is on the table over the weekend. One should select better puppets when one seeks to be a puppet master.



Locke
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Darth Thio is absolutely mad. I spent 2 days finding about this program and it has nothing to do with what Thio claims. If fact, I was told that Education Ministry is hypersenstive over gays/lesbian issue after a number of incidents in the early 90s when outsiders (lesbians who were ex-students and their friends) starting coming into certain schools in isolated incidents and the principals had to act. In one case, the school principal had to meet a group of them outside to avoid further issues. apparently it was reported in the press and one parent complained.

At the press conference yesterday, AWARE older members fronted the person who had designed the programme. Can't remember her name. She was a psychologist, and she spoke of how she had been selected by AWARE. She said she had been rigorously questioned by the AWARE leadership on her approach and methodology towards sex education. Later, the programme was audited by external counsellors and school personnel, among others, before it was launched.

The AWARE old guard commented that the gay sexuality issue was a "miniscule" part of the programme. They said they had to include it because gay sexuality does exist and the programme could not have been promoted as "comprehensive" otherwise. They also said that AWARE is against being anti anything (i.e. being anti-gay).
 
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