The fact is, because CPF has become such a huge monster that is eating up all the retirement funds we have, we can no longer discuss financial planning and retirement planning without discussing the CPF which the elephant in the room.
-
IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here. The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.
Singaporeans need to shoulder the blame on CPF.
- Thread starter scroobal
- Start date
The fact is, because CPF has become such a huge monster that is eating up all the retirement funds we have, we can no longer discuss financial planning and retirement planning without discussing the CPF which the elephant in the room.
scroobal, I totally agree with you that Sinkies ought to shoulder 99% of the blame.
The peasants have been so conditioned by Pappy propaganda down the years that they've forgotten what CPF is all about.
In a nutshell:
1. CPF is an individually-funded retirement fund, not your grandaddy's slush fund.
2. CPF has failed as a pension fund, given that more than half of all Singaporeans cannot meet the minimum sum requirement.
Its fundamental flaws:
1. ROI on CPF savings, esp. the OA, are ridiculously low and not indexed to inflation.
2. Allowing CPF funds to be used for property and other investments means that as land prices soared, CPF funds get depleted.
3. CPF contribution quantum is pegged to individual income. As S'pore's wages are among the lowest in the dev. world (no minimum wage, unbridled foreign worker influx), CPF contributions have remained stagnant for the lower income group while cost of living has sky-rocketed.
Net result: Inadequate savings to meet old age needs
Key issues:
1. Increase transparency and accountability as regards how our funds are invested by MAS, GIC and TH and what returns are obtained
2. Interest paid on OA must be pegged to inflation
3. Since TCJ has acknowledged that CPF is our money, return all CPF monies to holders at age 55 and make annuity schemes optional.
Myths:
1. Increasing minimum sum solves the problem. Bollocks. Increasing minimum sum actually exacerbates the problem of inadequate savings, results in low-income folks not being able to access their own savings for subsistence when they hit 55.
2. Increasing draw-down age solves the problem. Bullshit. Again, problem is lack of savings; increasing drawdown age merely puts whatever little money is left in the piggy bank out of reach of the people who need it most.
Consolidated Summary of CPF deficiencies
(i) CPF savings have been depleted by rising property prices. The young are saddled with lengthy mortgages and are left with less funds in CPF account to retire on.
(ii) The CPF earns low returns compared to GIC/Temasek/MAS.
(iii) There is no transparency and accountability as to how CPF funds are lent to the government and how the government generates returns on the CPF funds. CPF members are compensated at a derisory interest rate for the use of their funds.
(iv) CPF Medisave and medishield no longer adequate for healthcare expenses. which have soared. The govt has allowed prices to increase so much but has pushed the large burden of healthcare expense back onto the individual. Govt spents the least on healthcare as percentage of GDP compared to other developed countries.
(v) The minimum sum keeps increasing rapidly and this is making it harder to retire because more and more money is locked up in CPF. More than 50% of Singaporeans cannot meet the min sum requirement.
(vi) CPF Life payouts are not indexed to inflation, so retirees will have their purchasing power eroded over time
(vii) CPF Life payouts are also subject to change if mortality rates change, so retirees face uncertainty as to whether their payouts will be stable.
(viii) The govt can increase the drawdown age and change the rules as it fancies. CPF members thus face grave uncertainties and are unable to plan financially for their future and for their families.
(i) CPF savings have been depleted by rising property prices. The young are saddled with lengthy mortgages and are left with less funds in CPF account to retire on.
(ii) The CPF earns low returns compared to GIC/Temasek/MAS.
(iii) There is no transparency and accountability as to how CPF funds are lent to the government and how the government generates returns on the CPF funds. CPF members are compensated at a derisory interest rate for the use of their funds.
(iv) CPF Medisave and medishield no longer adequate for healthcare expenses. which have soared. The govt has allowed prices to increase so much but has pushed the large burden of healthcare expense back onto the individual. Govt spents the least on healthcare as percentage of GDP compared to other developed countries.
(v) The minimum sum keeps increasing rapidly and this is making it harder to retire because more and more money is locked up in CPF. More than 50% of Singaporeans cannot meet the min sum requirement.
(vi) CPF Life payouts are not indexed to inflation, so retirees will have their purchasing power eroded over time
(vii) CPF Life payouts are also subject to change if mortality rates change, so retirees face uncertainty as to whether their payouts will be stable.
(viii) The govt can increase the drawdown age and change the rules as it fancies. CPF members thus face grave uncertainties and are unable to plan financially for their future and for their families.
Obfuscation?
The CPF can't be fixed. Toss it out, find the missing billions and charge those responsible.
Introduce a pension scheme.
Wow, I need to buy Toto, since I agree with you again.
CPF takes up the bulk of retirement savings - 20 percent of income - and should be the major pillar.
The Canadian Pension Plan charges only 2.5 percent to secure a monthly cheque replacing 20 percent of income indexed to inflation.
We have $68-million men running the CPF, surely they can do better than the poorly paid Canadians.
Vote them out. Give East Coast, Tampines, Marine Parade, Bishan-Toa Payoh, Pasir-Ris Punggol all to the opposition. Let's then see whether you want to withhold my CPF.
The CPF cupboard is empty ...that's why the PAP turned CPF into housing loan scheme. Then when that was not enough to reduce the withdrawal amount, using CPF for medical bills was introduced. Then the minimum sum. What else is coming? Outright confiscation?
This is a very good thread. Roy and Ravi should read it thoroughly. Heck, everyone should read it.
Leongsam should make this thread a sticky.
CPF is our money and the promise by the govt is that come age 55, it shall be returned in full to us, plus whatever interest accrued all these years. Anything deviating from this is unlawful, no matter if the intention is good or evil. We do not trust the CPF scheme anymore as its goal-posts keep moving and we're not consulted. Any consultation must be through a national referendum, not through parliament, as parliament is fallible, as we all know by now.
As it is our money that the govt is holding on to, if CPF board wants to change any of its salient objectives, a national referendum should be sought for. This is only right, as I say again, CPF is our money and how we do with it is really our business. We do not owe anyone an explanation, and definitely not the govt.
I also do not agree with the lie that our average life-span is now 85, because I see many dying way before 85. So, extending the withdrawal age is just an excuse to hold on to our money. I do not believe in annuity plan because it is profit driven and I will only reap some benefits of it if I live long enough. I do not see myself living beyond 65, at most 70, because it is in my family's genes. So, I do not believe I need any stupid annuity plan.
Withholding my CPF money till 62, 65, 67 is like withholding my money till I'm ready to go. Meanwhile, the money is paid such a low interest that I would rather not have it and instead have the money returned to me so that it can take care of any emergencies that my money can be utilized according to my own money management priorities, which is strictly an individual matter, and I do not owe anyone an explanation, not lest the govt.
As far as I'm concerned, the CPF scheme has not met its original objective and should be scrapped. For those already involved in this scheme in the beginning, just return our money back at age 55. Nothing else to discuss, we do not believe in it anymore.
Leongsam should make this thread a sticky.
CPF is our money and the promise by the govt is that come age 55, it shall be returned in full to us, plus whatever interest accrued all these years. Anything deviating from this is unlawful, no matter if the intention is good or evil. We do not trust the CPF scheme anymore as its goal-posts keep moving and we're not consulted. Any consultation must be through a national referendum, not through parliament, as parliament is fallible, as we all know by now.
As it is our money that the govt is holding on to, if CPF board wants to change any of its salient objectives, a national referendum should be sought for. This is only right, as I say again, CPF is our money and how we do with it is really our business. We do not owe anyone an explanation, and definitely not the govt.
I also do not agree with the lie that our average life-span is now 85, because I see many dying way before 85. So, extending the withdrawal age is just an excuse to hold on to our money. I do not believe in annuity plan because it is profit driven and I will only reap some benefits of it if I live long enough. I do not see myself living beyond 65, at most 70, because it is in my family's genes. So, I do not believe I need any stupid annuity plan.
Withholding my CPF money till 62, 65, 67 is like withholding my money till I'm ready to go. Meanwhile, the money is paid such a low interest that I would rather not have it and instead have the money returned to me so that it can take care of any emergencies that my money can be utilized according to my own money management priorities, which is strictly an individual matter, and I do not owe anyone an explanation, not lest the govt.
As far as I'm concerned, the CPF scheme has not met its original objective and should be scrapped. For those already involved in this scheme in the beginning, just return our money back at age 55. Nothing else to discuss, we do not believe in it anymore.
Exactly what I'm saying.......the life expectancy of those born in 2013 is 82.5 years (both sexes ave).Originally Posted by SkyRider
maybe this can help you to understand
But surely we're not born in 2013, or are we saying they're treating us like 3 year old?
Give me a break...what a pack of lies.....as evidence tell me many of people I know who are dying now are 65 years old and younger.
Hence, this below statistics (assuming it is not massaged) used to increase the withdrawal age because of the lie that we're living till age 85 now, is applicable only for those born in 2013 and beyond, so it is irrelevant. It is a complete lie!! We don't live so long. The baby boomers do not live so long.
KNN...
This is poor advice that has led to the PAP to taking advantage of locals. PAP has drilled into locals for over a generation that they have to look after themselves while they also made them contribute. So these idiots let the PAP screw them and these same idiots compensated for PAP taking advantage of them by being more frugal and spending money on insurance.
Its like a rape victim blaming herself for walking down a street alone.
Its like a rape victim blaming herself for walking down a street alone.
I'm not giving advice. I'm simply describing a harsh reality which is not unique to Singapore. It is a situation that all retirees have to deal with the world over with some countries being in more dire straits than others.
The pension schemes in many countries in Europe have fallen apart. NZ's universal superannuation scheme, once the pride of the country, is now on the ropes with woefully inadequate payouts. The government has been forced to supplement it with Kiwisaver modeled after the very scheme that singaporeans hate viz CPF.
Singaporeans should count their blessings that they have a retirement scheme which is flexible enough to tailored to the needs of every individual.
It's not flexible. It also did not tailor to the needs of every individual, because my needs not met.
In summary, as I've put forth, CPF is built on a shallow foundation, topped with a big lie. That alone demands for CPF to be scrapped.
If your needs are not met, it is because you have been woefully lacking when it comes to managing your finances. You cannot blame the PAP for that. It is your own fault.
Nonsense. The fact that I'm able to meet my minimum sum, it means I've contributed to society and paid my taxes accordingly. It also means that I need my money back since CPF has not served its objectives, even for one who has met his minimum sum. I could have managed my finances better if I've not given CPF that liberty to keep moving the goal-posts and turning itself into a monster.
Similar threads
