[Sg] - Presidential hopeful George Goh : President’s role is not to check on Govt, but to work closely with the PM as equals

[Rogue Trader]

I used to admire HKP when I was a student but unfortunately after meeting him when I was working in the financial sector, my opinion changed.
From socialist to capitalist and his wife was also a NMP.
Ever heard of an "opposition" NMP?

Very difficult to find a perfect candidate which checks all our boxes. Hkp is a political and business blueblood and I'm sure the establishment had (has?) been trying to co-opt him into the inner circle

The other guy whom I thought stood a chance unfortunately died in his sleep last year

 

[oliverlee]

Using his christian faith as a calling card is not going to endear him to minority groups. In fact it could backfire cos it grates along racial / religious lines. Not a great strategist, much less a public speaker

 

[Charlie99]

Very difficult to find a perfect candidate which checks all our boxes. Hkp is a political and business blueblood and I'm sure the establishment had (has?) been trying to co-opt him into the inner circle

The other guy whom I thought stood a chance unfortunately died in his sleep last year

He is independently wealthy, and probably does not need to be beholden to the MIW.

 

[Rogue Trader]

He is independently wealthy, and probably does not need to be beholden to the MIW.

Independently wealthy? I think you're out of touch with the sinkapore model. Nothing happens without greenlight from the people upstairs. Plus, Temasek is a minority shareholder of Banyan tree

 

[Charlie99]

Independently wealthy? I think you're out of touch with the sinkapore model. Nothing happens without greenlight from the people upstairs. Plus, Temasek is a minority shareholder of Banyan tree

I am definutely out of touch with Singapore, because I gave been a non resident for forty years.
Thank you for sharing.

 

[Rogue Trader]

I am definutely out of touch with Singapore, because I gave been a non resident for forty years.
Thank you for sharing.

Should come back to reconnect more often if you can. I understand there'll be more SG-Vancouver flights soon. It's unhealthy to just get your perspectives from sammyboy.com. LOL

 

[Charlie99]

Should come back to reconnect more often if you can. I understand there'll be more SG-Vancouver flights soon. It's unhealthy to just get your perspectives from sammyboy.com. LOL

Thank you.
More convenient to fly from YYZ to HKG or TPE to SIN.

 

[rushifa666]

Useless idiot just wants to suck each others dick

 

[Beria]

Are you some kind of clown? U are hilarious.

The Presidency even before the advent of the Elected President has been more then a custodial role. The Presidency is endowed with certain powers, which the PM or Parliament do not have. ANy blind fuck can see that. For example, the President is the only one who can sign bills into law, pardon prisoners, and since EP, allegedly oversee the national reserves. For example, if the President decides the budget send to him for signing by the govt includes too much money for their salaries, he can refuse to sign it into law. And send it back to the govt to be re-worked. You don't think this is power?

The Prime Minister does not derive his legitimacy from the Parliament. That is not how the Westminster system works. The Prime Minister is part of the govt. which is separate from the legislature (which is the Parliament), and both are separate from the judiciary. These 3 branches in a real Westminster system acts as a check and balance for each other. The Prime Minister is a person nominated by his party to lead the govt if the party wins the election. In many democratic countries, the party forming the govt do not even have enough votes to pass what it wants through Parliament. So, the PM is hardly a source of power or legitimacy from the Parliament. Many PMs are removed from power if their party forms a coalition with other parties in the Parliament and the coalition fails.

And finally, Goh is not suggesting an evisceration of the Constitution. If you know anything about the Constitution, you would know the PAP has done a fine job eviscerating it through the decades, The original version of the constitution (which I studied in the early 80s) bear no resemblance to the one today.

And I have a hint for you. If the EP is such a custodial and ceremonial position, why would the PAP go through all the lengths (e.g. ridiculous criteria, vetted by PAP controlled PSC, racial rotation, etc) to make it difficult and hard for a non establishment person to qualify to run in it? The answer is that surprise, there is actually power in the EP.

While you're right that the Presidency possesses certain powers which in theory, can serve as check on Cabinet and Parliament, it's an unwritten constitutional norm that these powers are only exercised in cases when the President has determined that the government is not being fiscally responsible. The current constitutional schema does not empower the President to strike down laws or stand in direct opposition to Parliament, it is only exceptional circumstances that these powers become activated. This is evidently clear when considering the original intent behind the EP was to safeguard the national reserves against an incompetent government. None of the constitutional powers you mentioned were ever exercised as there has been no instances where the government has acted in a manner that was inimical to the long term interests of Singapore (as subjectively determined by the President). Even on cases of pardoning prisoners, the President acts on the advice of the Cabinet which is why death row inmates are rarely ever granted clemency. On matters of national security, the ISA specifically states that the President must consult the Prime Minister and his Cabinet before determining whether a preventive detention order is warranted in respect to individuals suspected of subverting the state. If you truly understand Singapore's constitution, you ought to look beyond constitutional law and consider the manner in which these statutes are to be applied.

Your second point regarding the PM is nonsensical. The executive branch in the Westminster system is fused with legislature in the sense that the Prime Minister's legitimacy is contingent on the support and confidence of Parliament. PMs can be removed in a vote of no-confidence and the government can collapse if there is insufficient support from the legislature. So yes, the Prime Minister does derive his legitimacy from Parliament as that is the basic premise of the Westminster system.

Lastly, Goh outright repudiated the Westminster system. How can this be framed as anything other than going against the fundamental precepts of the constitution? And, even if the PAP has made numerous constitutional amendments, refining the constitution is necessary for a small state like Singapore to be adaptable. There's a fine line between constitutional reform and an evisceration of Singapore's constitutional order. With all due respect, it's not surprising that an oppie like you would fail to understand the nature of Singapore's political order and the constitutional underpinnings of the President's powers.

 

[Papsmearer]

Very difficult to find a perfect candidate which checks all our boxes. Hkp is a political and business blueblood and I'm sure the establishment had (has?) been trying to co-opt him into the inner circle

The other guy whom I thought stood a chance unfortunately died in his sleep last year

There are many perfect candidates. They just don't want to run for EP against the PAP's candidate. They will be fixed by PAP long before balloting. Of the top of my head, I can name 6 who are against the PAP and check all the boxes, but they are busy making even more money outside singapore, rather then kiss the PAP ass.

 

[Papsmearer]

Should come back to reconnect more often if you can. I understand there'll be more SG-Vancouver flights soon. It's unhealthy to just get your perspectives from sammyboy.com. LOL

Sure or not? Its more healthy to get a perspective in singapore from the locals? hahahahhaha. that's funny. The locals are being fucked 6 ways to sunday and they don't even know it. How to get a well thought out perspective from people who don't know their ass from their head? No my friend, Sammyboy is still the best place.

 

[Papsmearer]

While you're right that the Presidency possesses certain powers which in theory, can serve as check on Cabinet and Parliament, it's an unwritten constitutional norm that these powers are only exercised in cases when the President has determined that the government is not being fiscally responsible. The current constitutional schema does not empower the President to strike down laws or stand in direct opposition to Parliament, it is only exceptional circumstances that these powers become activated. This is evidently clear when considering the original intent behind the EP was to safeguard the national reserves against an incompetent government. None of the constitutional powers you mentioned were ever exercised as there has been no instances where the government has acted in a manner that was inimical to the long term interests of Singapore (as subjectively determined by the President). Even on cases of pardoning prisoners, the President acts on the advice of the Cabinet which is why death row inmates are rarely ever granted clemency. On matters of national security, the ISA specifically states that the President must consult the Prime Minister and his Cabinet before determining whether a preventive detention order is warranted in respect to individuals suspected of subverting the state. If you truly understand Singapore's constitution, you ought to look beyond constitutional law and consider the manner in which these statutes are to be applied.

Your second point regarding the PM is nonsensical. The executive branch in the Westminster system is fused with legislature in the sense that the Prime Minister's legitimacy is contingent on the support and confidence of Parliament. PMs can be removed in a vote of no-confidence and the government can collapse if there is insufficient support from the legislature. So yes, the Prime Minister does derive his legitimacy from Parliament as that is the basic premise of the Westminster system.

Lastly, Goh outright repudiated the Westminster system. How can this be framed as anything other than going against the fundamental precepts of the constitution? And, even if the PAP has made numerous constitutional amendments, refining the constitution is necessary for a small state like Singapore to be adaptable. There's a fine line between constitutional reform and an evisceration of Singapore's constitutional order. With all due respect, it's not surprising that an oppie like you would fail to understand the nature of Singapore's political order and the constitutional underpinnings of the President's powers.

Oh please. First you say the President has a custodial role and is a nominal head of state. And now u say in theory the Presidency possesses certain powers. You are embarrassing Beria. Stop using his name as your moniker. The President's powers are not in theory. They are real and they are enshrined in the constitution. Just because no President has exercised these powers does not mean these powers are theoretical. Which part of this are you confused with? The fact that no President in the past has exercise these powers do not mean there is an unwritten constitutional norm. It just means the PAP has been very good at placing pliant and willing assholes onto the seat of the President, assholes who will not rock the boat and cause problems for them. And by the way, its a slippery slope to go down if you say that there are unwritten constitutional norms, because then you leave a lot of unwritten shit that nobody knows about. The Constitution is what it is. Any unwritten norm that is exercised upon, is unconstitutional and therefore illegal because its not clearly stated. I can name you half a dozen unwritten constitutional norms, but they are all outright illegal.

Right off the bet, in order for the President to safeguard the national reserves from an incompetent govt., he has to know how much in national reserves they are, where they are located and in what form and instruments they are held in. Are we agreed on this? Otherwise, how is he supposed to know if the national reserves are being siphoned off? Only one President, OTC, has requested a full accounting and he was stymied in his attempt. So, your PAP porlumpar position of safeguarding the NR is a ridiculous and hollow statement. Which President has even asked for an accounting other then OTC? In fact, any of the EP anointed by the PAP don't give a shit about how much reserves there is. Their sole purpose is that in the even of a party other then the PAP winning, their role is sabo the new govt anyway they can.

The govt has on countless occasions acted against the interest of the people, but the president has never exercised his powers against these actions because why? He is one of them. All the presidents have been a string of PAP insiders and puppets. Why would they act against their master? I have already given you clear cut cases where the govt did not act in the people's interest, and yet the President has done nothing.

We will leave it at this. You are just a PAP balls licker and I am ........................ not.

 

[Beria]

Oh please. First you say the President has a custodial role and is a nominal head of state. And now u say in theory the Presidency possesses certain powers. You are embarrassing Beria. Stop using his name as your moniker. The President's powers are not in theory. They are real and they are enshrined in the constitution. Just because no President has exercised these powers does not mean these powers are theoretical. Which part of this are you confused with? The fact that no President in the past has exercise these powers do not mean there is an unwritten constitutional norm. It just means the PAP has been very good at placing pliant and willing assholes onto the seat of the President, assholes who will not rock the boat and cause problems for them. And by the way, its a slippery slope to go down if you say that there are unwritten constitutional norms, because then you leave a lot of unwritten shit that nobody knows about. The Constitution is what it is. Any unwritten norm that is exercised upon, is unconstitutional and therefore illegal because its not clearly stated. I can name you half a dozen unwritten constitutional norms, but they are all outright illegal.

Right off the bet, in order for the President to safeguard the national reserves from an incompetent govt., he has to know how much in national reserves they are, where they are located and in what form and instruments they are held in. Are we agreed on this? Otherwise, how is he supposed to know if the national reserves are being siphoned off? Only one President, OTC, has requested a full accounting and he was stymied in his attempt. So, your PAP porlumpar position of safeguarding the NR is a ridiculous and hollow statement. Which President has even asked for an accounting other then OTC? In fact, any of the EP anointed by the PAP don't give a shit about how much reserves there is. Their sole purpose is that in the even of a party other then the PAP winning, their role is sabo the new govt anyway they can.

The govt has on countless occasions acted against the interest of the people, but the president has never exercised his powers against these actions because why? He is one of them. All the presidents have been a string of PAP insiders and puppets. Why would they act against their master? I have already given you clear cut cases where the govt did not act in the people's interest, and yet the President has done nothing.

We will leave it at this. You are just a PAP balls licker and I am ........................ not.

There's no inherent tension between the President's custodial role over the national reserves and the powers which are entrusted to the Presidency in times of crisis. To restate, the aforementioned powers are theoretical in the sense that they are present in the constitution but are only triggered in the instance when there is a grave misuse of public funds and/or fiscal incompetence on part of the government. The EP, was not conceived by the constitutional framers as being a permanent check on the Cabinet and Parliament, original intent matters when determining the operational scope of the President's powers. Theoretically, the Presidency can veto the government and undermine the latter's attempt in passing legislation, but it is important to emphasize that these powers only become activated in very specific circumstances. This is undoubtedly, an unwritten constitutional norm as there is no precedent of a President defying the government. Constitutional practice and original intent both suggests that the scope of the President's powers in relation to the national reserves is confined to exceptional cases where the government is acting against the interests of the people and the long-term interests of Singapore. The validity of an unwritten constitutional norm hinges in its application and acceptance by the state. So far, this has been the constitutional consensus hence the norm, that the President for the most part, refrains from challenging the government when a decision has already been reached by the other branches of government.

The President possesses full knowledge of how much exists in the national reserves (full in the sense of what the government could realistically provide). By the way, when Ong Teng Cheong requested for a listing of physical assets from the government, the accountant-general provided a list of state properties and land without a value attached to them, this is because the value of state land only matters when they are to be sold, and if they are sold, they would be sold at fair market value. The President in this case, still received a full report on the government's financial assets. Nothing suggests that the Ministry of Finance and the relevant authorities have acted in bad faith and sought to deceive the President. Ong was not stymied but rather the government did not possess the means to produce a valuation of all state properties as that would take require a lot of time and effort with little to no gain.

Your last point is just another restatement of baseless accusations and falsehoods. You should be pofma'd for being an oppie retard and for misleading others on the role of the Presidency.

 

[Rogue Trader]

There are many perfect candidates. They just don't want to run for EP against the PAP's candidate. They will be fixed by PAP long before balloting. Of the top of my head, I can name 6 who are against the PAP and check all the boxes, but they are busy making even more money outside singapore, rather then kiss the PAP ass.

Who else do you think could/should put their names in the hat?

 

[oliverlee]

This cb is really no different from con men who lie from the pulpit to sheep who do not read their bibles. Read the fucking constitution lah, the president’s role is clearly spelt out for all to see. Only old bitches can’t stop their shrivelled cunts from stinking up social media with half truths and white lies