• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

SDP's economic Policy Paper

angry_one

Alfrescian
Loyal
You spend so much time lambasting the SDP plans but have you considered the current PAP plan, which is far worse this this?

- dominate the economy with GLCs, feed the fat cats
- foreigners first, maintain low wages so MNCs can remain here
- zero pensions and retrenchment benefits. you die your business!
- skill-based education system: don't think about what you want, study what the nation tells you to!
 

Hakka Tiow

Alfrescian
Loyal
Yes, Dr Chee Soon Juan should focus on nation building, bring all Singaporean together and not get too strayed into other part of the world. A leader should always be by the side of their men in battle and not get too distracted in battle not within our backyard. We need to see him more regularly in the neighbourhood, talk to the ground, understand their problems and chart a sustainable policies for Singaporean when PAP falls. All oppositions must unite for greater resources to ease the fear of singaporean, Cast selfishness or self-centereness aside for the greater goal in history. When Singaporean stand behind you, you will be assured of sustaining your power for the next decade. I am certain there is no lack of capable forces in oppositions, the Straits Times deny to acknowledge the fact out of fear of PAP. The arrogantness of pap has been provened at all level and hated by many from the streets. Grab all these opportunities from the grievances at the ground, the power of internet and the folly of current PAP policies. The 2nd generation of PAP under LHL is weak & greedy, their 3rd will be disastrous to this land. Give us the best you could oppositions, be our Moses!!


That's what he had been doing, hadn't he? Instead of high horsing, he had and is still putting himself in the line of fire. That's much, much more than can be said of many other people. The majority of the citizenry can't understand, let alone digest grandiloquence.
 

phouse3

Alfrescian
Loyal
You spend so much time lambasting the SDP plans but have you considered the current PAP plan, which is far worse this this?

- dominate the economy with GLCs, feed the fat cats
- foreigners first, maintain low wages so MNCs can remain here
- zero pensions and retrenchment benefits. you die your business!
- skill-based education system: don't think about what you want, study what the nation tells you to!

2 wrongs don't make one right!

SDP is seeking comments on its policy paper, isn't it?

Does the paper sound like it is written by some retired Marxist librarian sitting in some dark corner typing on Onion paper or does it sound like it is written by some fat capitalist sitting in an investment bank at Raffles Place typing on his Apple computer?

SDP believes in free speech, freedom to gather, free press, free access to CPF monies, etc. Why doesn't it believe in a free economy?

Is it not the excessive meddling of the government that created the many problems? Why does SDP want the government to meddle some more?
 
Last edited:

lockeliberal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear P

Honestly the paper just sounds confused. The PAP are pragmatists in that they will adopt policies from the left right centre , centre right , centre left of the spectrum and adopt it to their own ends

The reading I get from the SDP is an ideological position fixed on the notion of democracy , human rights, free speech etc etc and putting that discourse above all else including substantive economic policy discussions.

That said an done its easy enough disagreeing over economic policies and economic trade off's between various groups. It confuses me though when everything economic has to be linked back not only to "bad PAP policy" which is fine but to "bad economic PAP policy and human rights democracy and freedom of speech and freedom of assembly" argument. The premise being it seems that only under conditions of human rights, democracy freedom of speech and freedom of assembly can there be good economic policy.



Locke
 

kakowi

Alfrescian
Loyal
My comments are:

(1) The policy paper is your stand and communication to voters. That does not mean that it must highlight why PAP is bad and why you are good. It only means that this paper is your stand. Those who believe in your stand will vote for you. Those who don't, well, will not.

(2) To take an extreme case, your policy is word for word the same as that of the PAP.

Is that wrong?

No.

All that means is that you are now offering the voters a choice: same policies, different parties.​

(3) You detailed several specifics in your paper. Are you sure that the economy can be so simplistically stated and your principles can be rigidly applied?

If you are sure, then go ahead.

If you are not, then perhaps you might prefer a more generic approach. Focus on your objectives that you want to meet. The specifics will depend on the knowledge and complexities that you will face when you are in a position of power. But your objective of 'dignity for all singaporeans' (for example) will be met.

In this case, singaporeans will gauge you according to your objectives, not your methods.​
 

NgEjay

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
SDP believes in free speech, freedom to gather, free press, free access to CPF monies, etc. Why doesn't it believe in a free economy? ... ... ..... Is it not the excessive meddling of the government that created the many problems? Why does SDP want the government to meddle some more?

Well, the SDP policy paper is far from perfect, that everyone can agree.

I think feedback is essential and SDP needs it.

My personal take is that this is a "skeletal" paper that focusses on the broad outline without going into too much technical details. Certainly many points are debatable, for example, I personally feel their retrechment benefits are WAY to generous.

There are also other contentious points. For example, we should distinguish between services that should be left to private enterprise, and essential services like public tpt that should NOT be left to private enterprise, but subsidized and managed directly by the govt to prevent conflicts on interest.

I also feel SDP lacks the focus on free market economics. A free market and open economy is absolutely essential for sustaining economic growth in the globalized age.

The point is to temper the excesses of free market capitalism with regular state intervention of socialist policies that tax the rich to help the poor. That is the proper function of a democratic govt.

It is most certainly NOT the function of democratic govt to take a large role in private enterprise through GLC entrenchment, and leech the citizens through artificially depressed wages.

E-Jay
 

angry_one

Alfrescian
Loyal
you misunderstood. The examples i gave are PAP's current plans.

2 wrongs don't make one right!

SDP is seeking comments on its policy paper, isn't it?

Does the paper sound like it is written by some retired Marxist librarian sitting in some dark corner typing on Onion paper or does it sound like it is written by some fat capitalist sitting in an investment bank at Raffles Place typing on his Apple computer?

SDP believes in free speech, freedom to gather, free press, free access to CPF monies, etc. Why doesn't it believe in a free economy?

Is it not the excessive meddling of the government that created the many problems? Why does SDP want the government to meddle some more?
 
A

Alu862

Guest
Do not support neo-liberalism it has been and will continue to be disatrous




well, the sdp policy paper is far from perfect, that everyone can agree.

I think feedback is essential and sdp needs it.

My personal take is that this is a "skeletal" paper that focusses on the broad outline without going into too much technical details. Certainly many points are debatable, for example, i personally feel their retrechment benefits are way to generous.

There are also other contentious points. For example, we should distinguish between services that should be left to private enterprise, and essential services like public tpt that should not be left to private enterprise, but subsidized and managed directly by the govt to prevent conflicts on interest.

I also feel sdp lacks the focus on free market economics. A free market and open economy is absolutely essential for sustaining economic growth in the globalized age.

The point is to temper the excesses of free market capitalism with regular state intervention of socialist policies that tax the rich to help the poor. That is the proper function of a democratic govt.

It is most certainly not the function of democratic govt to take a large role in private enterprise through glc entrenchment, and leech the citizens through artificially depressed wages.

E-jay
 

zack123

Alfrescian
Loyal
The policy is confused with a mix match of laissez faire and intervention system. I believe it is the standard popular policy adopted by many opposition parties who likes to dangle a big carrot to the voters.

Anyone can be a leader with popular policies but it takes a great one to make tough decisions.
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

Alfrescian
Loyal
Please refer to Winnipegjets at Delphi for more:biggrin: Not sure where Thinkall has parked though:p

It confuses me though when everything economic has to be linked back not only to "bad PAP policy" which is fine but to "bad economic PAP policy and human rights democracy and freedom of speech and freedom of assembly" argument. The premise being it seems that only under conditions of human rights, democracy freedom of speech and freedom of assembly can there be good economic policy.



Locke
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

Alfrescian
Loyal
I doubt the yankee republicans nor the tory conservative brits would agree with you on this one:biggrin:

The point is to temper the excesses of free market capitalism with regular state intervention of socialist policies that tax the rich to help the poor. That is the proper function of a democratic govt.



E-Jay
 

phouse3

Alfrescian
Loyal
Here's Wikipedia again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

Milton Friedman started Neoliberalism more than 25 years ago. Britain under Thatcher, America under Reagan and many countries followed the ideas.

Arguments favouring Neoliberalism:-

* Free markets are important to securing political freedom
* Many developing countries' governments had mismanaged or exploited their economic dominance during over the mid-century
* Many government attempts to micro-manage their economies using things like tariffs, public investment, etc. were often misdirected, poorly timed, poorly implemented and bore undesirable, unanticipated consequences; the claim by many neoliberals is that a government is incapable of managing a social system as huge as a national economy
* Market liberalization is supposed to spur investment, technology transfer, innovation and a responsiveness to consumer demand
* Government-owned enterprises and public entitlements were losing a lot of money, and helping bankrupt governments
* During the 1970s, state-controlled economies proved unresponsive to economic shocks, and much of the world endured a sustained, high-inflation recession until markets were liberalized (though proponents still note that liberalization itself is only one of several factors in the recent return to prosperity -- other factors include technological developments and the end of the Cold War.)

Just see for yourself how many of the above arguments apply to Singapore.
 

cass888

Alfrescian
Loyal
Quite a below-par policy paper from SDP. It is difficult to comment because the approach of the entire paper appeared to be that of political economics.

Their paper lacks any real answers. Lots of bluesky stuff without a statement of how to get there.
 

neddy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
If SDP run in the current Western Australia State Election, I will vote for them. But we only have political clowns with their half-baked manifesto and a lot of hot air.

Still don't who to vote, maybe the Greens. :wink:
 

NgEjay

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Their paper lacks any real answers. Lots of bluesky stuff without a statement of how to get there.

Does the PAP has answers apart from importing huge numbers of foreigners, taxing the poor, and throwing money at all the problems as if money alone were a panacea for everything?
 

kakowi

Alfrescian
Loyal
Actually, it appears that after so many years in power, the PAP does not follow any ideology but its own. With the advent of PM LHL power two years back, the ideology appears to be:

(1) reinvent singapore to be the playground of the rich and wealthy

(2) to do this, need to attract the rich...thus abolishment of estate duty, lowered personal direct taxes, casinos, lifestyle hub centred around tanjong rhu and marina, f1 formula race which makes singapore a play centre for the rich...also investment in ubs which is perhaps the premier banking centre for the rich and wealthy

(3) make sure that the rest of the population will not be a burden to them...these policies you all know

(4) grant to themselves wealth so that each term will net the major politicians S$15M in wealth (they had already given their reasons why this is justified)

(5) ensure that the increasing wealth gap will not be an embarassment and thus artificially narrow the gap with government payouts

(6) ensure that the population can sustain the economic growth by increasing both the number of foreign talents, the number of targeted singaporeans and the increase in costs for every sector of normal life...these bring in the dollars

(7) thus: singapore - rich and wealthy, plenty of millionaires, the poor not too poor, every singaporean bear their own burden and they reap large salaries

In the meantime, we have the SDP coming up their policies as though these policies are written in stone. Looking at the statements, it is clear that it cannot withstand deep criticism.

More to the point, it leads to detailed debate over policies, which ironically the mainstream voter could not care less.

What is needed is the communication of purpose, stature, responsibility, prudence, coherence, stability to the voter. You do not achieve this by an academic policy.

The question is how do you address the above postulated policy of the PAP? It is only a guess, an educated guess based on newspaper reports over the past two years, on taxation policies, foreign talents, rises in costs, cpf policies, etc. (You may interpret it differently and your interpretation is as good as mine because I do not have special knowledge).

If you look at it fairly, it is one way to achieve and bring singapore to a new way of life. But the main beneficiaries of such a policy will not be singaporeans. It will be the rich, wealthy, the political leaders themselves because of the salaries they awarded themselves which insulate them from their own policies. The rest will have to struggle to meet the high and higher cost of living. Based on such a policy, most singaporeans will be unlikely to starve, can meet their own medical costs on a subsidized level. But the moment they lose their jobs, that will be the end of them.

Given this scenario, how does your policy relate to it? More importantly how do you convince the average voter that you have a better and higher objective?

That will be your challenge:

(a) What does it mean to the average voter?
(b) What sort of life can the average voter get if PAP continues in power?
(c) What sort of alternative you can offer? What is your vision of life for singaporeans? Can you give singaporeans a better life? A higher alternative?


Sorry for the long post.
 
Top