SDP healthcare plan: Scrap Medisave and increase govt spending

[Sadist]

I'm a social capitalist. Social benefits and subsidies are not to protect the poor, but to protect the rich or at least middle class. That's why most politicians around the world, especially first world, themselves being rich or middle class, are willing to propose and vote in social benefits and subsidies.

Let me illustrate. You're a millionnaire living a suburbia bangalow. But you need to go to downtown for working or shopping etc., then what do you see there? Sick and homeless and panhandlers and even muggers lining the streets. What are you going to do? Shoot them all? Of course, you lobby your government to doing about it to make your city life or city trip more comfortable and safer. What's your government going to do about it?

Budget for it of course. Where's the budget going to come from? Tax more from the rich of course.

This is a gem, I shall freeze it.

Q, why do you assume all first world lines their street with muggers and uses the tax excuse?

 

[Ramseth]

This is a gem, I shall freeze it.

Q, why do you assume all first world lines their street with muggers and uses the tax excuse?

Ask anyone who has walked through South-Central LA, SF Tenderloin or NY Central Park after nightfall from mid 80s to mid 90s. The problems were caused by Reagan-Bush era low tax non-socialist policies. Clinton corrected that and brought in under tolerably under reasonable control by higher tax on the rich. It enabled Clinton to win a 2nd term despite his blowjob scandal. Taxation is not an excuse. With a correctly targetted policy, it's a solution, well worth your money.

Not only US, even in France and Japan, I've seen homeless lining streets and using subway stations and underbridge ducts as bedrooms. But of course, not to a scale as big as during the US Reagan-Bush era of pure capitalistic, nobody owes anybody a living, you've no money and you die is your business policies.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

I have a feeling a lot of down-to-earth and grassroots type of work in the civil service is avoided. Instead, from career progression point of view, it's better to be writing policies, planning, etc, especially if can get into Admin Service. And because you're rewarded for writing and presenting (demonstrating your intellectual abilities), not so much for doing, people who progress rapidly may not have sufficient grounding, not enough operational experience.

In that sense, I share your concern whether our generals are capable of leading wars, or paper generals who are good at pushing papers, scoring at presentations to Ministers, etc. The civil service runs the risk of becoming very top heavy -- everybody planning/policy-making, very few people doing. In the long run, nobody knows how to do anymore.

Hi...this just proves that Singapore is a top heavy bureaucracy. Even PAP MPs and wannabe MPs are this sort of policy makers. I remember once talking to someone who has connections with the regime. He says, when I am MP, I want to be Foreign minister etc,,dont want to attend MPS and listen to peoples problems. Uh hello,,,the job of the MP is to serve the people. Cant do it dont be MP. That is the problem with PAP today,,their MPs are fucking lazy,,looking at what WP has done surely puts the PAP to shame.

 

[kingrant]

Have you ever stopped to ask yrself how much you have contributed to Medisave all the years? So who's the real insurer? yrself!

If you take a health plan like Canada's, that $5000 wld be divvy up into services, exams tests and drugs. Services, exams tests are free. Drugs depend on the drug insurance plan by province. Roughly, you pay $50 per mth for the premium and co-pay about 30% of the bill up to a cap every mth of $50 (aver). So if yr drug bill is $200 for that mth, you need to pay only $50, not $60. I am averageing all the provinces for simplicity of argument. And this is only for outpatient drugs! Inhospital drugs are free for you. In total, you'll pay much less than in Singapore.

Exactly what I'm saying, Medishield is already, or rather, has always been on a co-pay basis. The government is the basic insurer for the basic Class C plan. You can also choose to insure with approved private insurers if you prefer. To upgrade to B or A, you must choose from approved private insurers.

For example, I was hospitalized for a week and ended with a bill of S$5,000 gross. Subsidy reduced it to S$2,000 net. Medishield deductibe was set at S$1,500 and co-insurance (what you call co-pay) at 20%. Therefore, my claim on Medishield would be 80% of S$500, i.e. S$400. The balance of S$1,100 not subsidized and not insured would be payable through my Medisave or by cash. If I have another private medical insurance plan (not the same as approved private Shield plan), I could also claim the balance S$1,100 on it according to its terms. That's probably how KBW paid only S$8 cash for heart bypass.

 

[Perspective]

Many equipment are actually good, improves health care and saves lives.
An example of an expensive equipment would be CT scan. This thing is expensive but can give accuracy to diagnosis which is crucial and can lowers overall cost to the patient because they are treated correctly as a result.

Agree with you, but I specifically meant things like German stethoscopes and syringes and Italian made bed models etc. I am not against diversity of the technology and hence costs, per se.

 

[Ramseth]

Have you ever stopped to ask yrself how much you have contributed to Medisave all the years? So who's the real insurer? yrself!

If you take a health plan like Canada's, that $5000 wld be divvy up into services, exams tests and drugs. Services, exams tests are free. Drugs depend on the drug insurance plan by province. Roughly, you pay $50 per mth for the premium and co-pay about 30% of the bill up to a cap every mth of $50 (aver). So if yr drug bill is $200 for that mth, you need to pay only $50, not $60. I am averageing all the provinces for simplicity of argument. And this is only for outpatient drugs! Inhospital drugs are free for you. In total, you'll pay much less than in Singapore.

You self-insure a portion of cash with Medisave, yes. Then you insure over-excess if incurred with Medishield. Which part don't you understand? It's the same as motor insurance. You pay cash below-excess first, over-excess then claim. But there's no Motorsave, is there? Nobody's forced to buy a car and for those who bought cars they can always sell or scrap their cars if they can't afford accidental and incidental repairs, can't they? For those who can't afford medical, what do you propose? Order suicide or homicide or to put it more morally, euthanasia? I'm not saying Singapore system is the best in the world. It has room for improvement too. That's why in earlier posts and other threads, I've also pointed out that the Singapore system somewhere lopsidedly burdened the poor more than the rich.

I've always been pro-Medishield but anti-Medisave, haven't you followed? But somehow, I can't deny the system is still holding up but it could and should be improved.

 

[brocoli]

But of course, not to a scale as big as during the US Reagan-Bush era of pure capitalistic, nobody owes anybody a living, you've no money and you die is your business policies.

is this really so bad?

 

[Kinana]

the way to go is for govt to be the sole insurer.

A monopoly with no competition? Consumers will be dead with a monopoly dictating terms. You must be crazy bro.

Those insured also have to co-pay.

They don't want to pay how? Fine them? How much to fine?

Countries like Canada have run this system long enough and even the Americans wonder how it could be done. Saw the movie by Michael Moore who surveyed the Canadian Health care plan?

Michael moore is an ultra leftist propagandist. You remembered he made a movie that claimed that 911 was an inside job? You believe in such ridiculous propaganda bro?

Americans wondered how Canadians do it. Did it go thru the roof? No. Want to build social inclusivity, which seems to be the buzzword nowadays? Then go for it! After all, we are now paying more and not getting much, and our society has become divisive, citizens meaner towards one another, self-centred, uncaring - legacy of the PAP valued system.

Did Michael moore showed you the poor conditions of Canadian hospitals compared to the US? The long queues for CT scans? The shortage of doctors and beds?
Why are you telling others to believe in someone like Michael Moore?

 

[Ramseth]

is this really so bad?

Hundreds of small town banks doing home mortgage business (known as neighborhood savings-and-loans banks) collapsed then because of you-no-money-you-die-your-business policies. Most big city downtowns were filled with homeless evicted from foreclosure and repossession, living with all their belongings, whatever's left, in shopping carts stolen from supermarkets. Repossession couldn't save the banks since they repossessed houses heavily devalued.

That was late 80s. By early 90s, the meltdown spilt over to Japan and brought down the LDP government for the first time since WW2. Tokyo, Shinjuku, Nihonbashi, Asakusa etc. were lined with homeless living in cardboard boxes. Don't believe me? Can ask Drifter. The situation is better now.

 

[kingrant]

Medisave or Medishield, add up yr premiums and compare, the Canada plan is still by far cheaper, and SDP is right to go along that way.

I've always been pro-Medishield but anti-Medisave, haven't you followed? But somehow, I can't deny the system is still holding up but it could and should be improved.

 

[davetan3]

Errh cancer can be detected right? so if u go for early and regular health screening, then no need to start saving for rainy day or build up finances to cater for worst case scenarios. I meant it wouldn't happen overnight??

People of Singapore are our greatest resources. It's about time our country put acute focus on it rather then harping about lack of natural resouces all the time. This line of argument is getting very stale and should have no place in a more forward thinking leaders.

Another armamorgon theory about stability, it is like it will happens overnight? Things don't just happens, there are signs way before it is erupted, it can be averted. Are you seriously doubting the foresight and intelligence gathering of our government, then it's about time we change them isn't it?

 

[liongsum]

Have you ever stopped to ask yrself how much you have contributed to Medisave all the years? So who's the real insurer? yrself!

You can argue and argue till the cows come home.
I have no answers (whether Canadian system is better), but this is certainly not the way to think about health insurance.
You should think of it as a gamble.
Think of it as a bet with the insurer that you will/will not fall sick.
It is a bet you do not want to win.

 

[liongsum]

Medisave or Medishield, add up yr premiums and compare, the Canada plan is still by far cheaper, and SDP is right to go along that way.

Now that it is more than rhetoric, we have something substantial to work on. I am not an academic nor am I a healthcare economist, but such people can calculate what we would have spent on healthcare in the past if we use the SDP model. It is difficult, but it can be done. Then we would know how many eagles and leopards we have to forego and whether SDP is right to go along that way.

 

[Ramseth]

Medisave or Medishield, add up yr premiums and compare, the Canada plan is still by far cheaper, and SDP is right to go along that way.

As the Chinese saying goes, wool has to come from sheep. Check out the Canadian tax system. They can't print money just on paper and ink. Otherwise the Canadian would have gone the way of Rupee or Rupiah and everybody's a millionnaire but couldn't buy anything much.

 

[Kinana]

Ask anyone who has walked through South-Central LA, SF Tenderloin or NY Central Park after nightfall from mid 80s to mid 90s. The problems were caused by Reagan-Bush era low tax non-socialist policies. Clinton corrected that and brought in under tolerably under reasonable control by higher tax on the rich. It enabled Clinton to win a 2nd term despite his blowjob scandal. Taxation is not an excuse. With a correctly targetted policy, it's a solution, well worth your money.

Not only US, even in France and Japan, I've seen homeless lining streets and using subway stations and underbridge ducts as bedrooms. But of course, not to a scale as big as during the US Reagan-Bush era of pure capitalistic, nobody owes anybody a living, you've no money and you die is your business policies.

First of all, the downslide of US in the 70s onwards was due to policies of liberals. Things got really bad under Carter and it was Reagan and Bush who took over the mess and fixed it. By the time Clinton took over from the massive Reagan tax cuts, US was in its biggest boom run in history.

BTW the current recession was a result of Clinton's home ownership policies that created the bank defaults. You need to get a detox from liberal lies.