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Rental Income and Dividend income

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
As a foreigner I don't file a tax returns in the U.S. So I can't claim any tax allowances or anything. Every 2 years I submit a W-8ben form as proof that I am not a U.S. Citizen or resident.

Don't really know if any U.S. Citizen can get it any or part of the amount that is taxed? I've read somewhere that dividends are not so popular because of taxation reasons. That May be why some may prefer that the companies do share buy backs to increase the value of their shares than to give dividends?

thats the gist of it,have to avoid US stocks and etfs that pays high dividend rates cause the 30 percent witholding tax is very painful,but witholding tax only applies to dividends or interest payments from bonds,there is no capital gains tax between US and SG,since they dont tax ur capital gains,i dont think u can apply for tax shelter.

but the theory that companies that dont pay out dividends and reinvest their profits in the company or share buybacks perform better is not necessary true.dividends form up a large portion of returns from the stock market since the 1920s.theres a theory that companies that pays a dividend out regularly allocates capital more efficiently as they dont have too much money lying around or finding useless ways to spend the money.also dividends make up a large percentage of stock market returns,its estimated nearly 30 percent of returns from the s&p 500 comes from dividends.
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
As a foreigner I don't file a tax returns in the U.S. So I can't claim any tax allowances or anything. Every 2 years I submit a W-8ben form as proof that I am not a U.S. Citizen or resident.

Don't really know if any U.S. Citizen can get it any or part of the amount that is taxed? I've read somewhere that dividends are not so popular because of taxation reasons. That May be why some may prefer that the companies do share buy backs to increase the value of their shares than to give dividends?

dividends are now lumped together with capital gains on tax rates. for u.s. taxes in 2015, if you file as single and your taxable income does not exceed us$413,200, the top rate for qualified dividends and long term capital gains (held over 1 year) is 15%. for joint filers, the same rate applies if taxable income does not exceed us$464,850.

when those amounts are exceeded, taxable incomes on dividends and long term capital gains above the limits are taxed at 20%.
 

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
dividends are now lumped together with capital gains on tax rates. for u.s. taxes in 2015, if you file as single and your taxable income does not exceed us$413,200, the top rate for qualified dividends and long term capital gains (held over 1 year) is 15%. for joint filers, the same rate applies if taxable income does not exceed us$464,850.

when those amounts are exceeded, taxable incomes on dividends and long term capital gains above the limits are taxed at 20%.

uh theres a different tax system for us residents and aliens non us residents.

dont americans have like 401k or some retirement account that is basically tax free?

also what happens if u hold ur stocks or bonds say forever and dont sell them until 20 years later and u reinvest the dividends?
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
uh theres a different tax system for us residents and aliens non us residents.

dont americans have like 401k or some retirement account that is basically tax free?

401k is tax "sheltered" (not free, nothing is free) until age 59.5 when employers and employees are required to stop contributing to it and employees are free to cash out sums or all of it. any cash out of 401k is taxable as income.

for stocks and bonds that are held very long term, say 20 years, they will be taxed at the same long term capital gains rates (15% and 20% depending on amount of taxable income then) when they are exercised (cashed out) and reinvested.
 
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frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
401k is tax "sheltered" (not free, nothing is free) until age 59.5 when employers and employees are required to stop contributing to it and employees are free to cash out sums or all of it. any cash out of 401k is taxable as income.

that is a very important point since even or 1 or 2 percent difference in returns can be exponentially huge when compounded over 20 or 30 years.a portfolio of stocks that is left untaxed and unraped annually can grow exponentially like a nuclear bomb.
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
that is a very important point since even or 1 or 2 percent difference in returns can be exponentially huge when compounded over 20 or 30 years.a portfolio of stocks that is left untaxed and unraped annually can grow exponentially like a nuclear bomb.

which is why in sg where there's zero capital gains tax, the rich can grow their wealth exponentially without the need for any salary or wages. making substantial incomes with capital investments is the best way to go in sg. this proves that pap is the best!
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
As a foreigner I have to submit a W-8BEN form which exempts me from US taxes. Have been doing it for 10+ years.
The US gov't still withholds 30% of dividens from my US shares

Can I as a foreigners get them to return this 30%:confused:

That is not my question to you. A W-8BEN form is just a declaration by you. It certifies if you are eligible for a lower witholding rate and is completed by you and send to your accountant/stock broker etc. Not send to IRS. I am asking whether you file a US tax return like a Form 1040NR. I gather you are a singapore citizen. 30% is the highest witholding rate for foreigners and applicable to people from countries that have no tax treaty with the US. U can thank the PAP for this rate, because of the desire to attract rich americans like Mark Zuckerberg to a country like this, they don't sign a tax treaty.

I believe US dividend income is taxed as regular income. Therefore, you should be earning over $190,000USD a year in dividend income to justify paying 30% taxes. If you are not, you should have some refund coming to you. I would imagine that you should file a 1040NR and see if you get any money back. A W-8BEN does absolutely nothing for you.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
As a foreigner I don't file a tax returns in the U.S. So I can't claim any tax allowances or anything. Every 2 years I submit a W-8ben form as proof that I am not a U.S. Citizen or resident.

Don't really know if any U.S. Citizen can get it any or part of the amount that is taxed? I've read somewhere that dividends are not so popular because of taxation reasons. That May be why some may prefer that the companies do share buy backs to increase the value of their shares than to give dividends?

Yes, many foreigners from countries with no tax treaty like SIngapore would buy shares in the US that do not pay dividends. This way, there is no tax to pay. They do pay a capital gains tax when they sell it, but that is much lower then 30% depending on how much.
 

johnny333

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
That is not my question to you. A W-8BEN form is just a declaration by you. It certifies if you are eligible for a lower witholding rate and is completed by you and send to your accountant/stock broker etc. Not send to IRS. I am asking whether you file a US tax return like a Form 1040NR. I gather you are a singapore citizen. 30% is the highest witholding rate for foreigners and applicable to people from countries that have no tax treaty with the US. U can thank the PAP for this rate, because of the desire to attract rich americans like Mark Zuckerberg to a country like this, they don't sign a tax treaty.

I believe US dividend income is taxed as regular income. Therefore, you should be earning over $190,000USD a year in dividend income to justify paying 30% taxes. If you are not, you should have some refund coming to you. I would imagine that you should file a 1040NR and see if you get any money back. A W-8BEN does absolutely nothing for you.

I'll have to look into this as I expect to receive dividends in the long term. How much do you think I can save if I submit a1040nr?

Nowadays I don't visit the USA. Is there a way to file a 1040NR without going to the USA?
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
I'll have to look into this as I expect to receive dividends in the long term. How much do you think I can save if I submit a1040nr?

Nowadays I don't visit the USA. Is there a way to file a 1040NR without going to the USA?

Yes, very possible. U have to engage an accountant in the US to do this for you. Usually it helps to set all these things up when you are in the US.

I will give you an example that I am familiar with. If you remember going back more then 20 years, there have been property trade shows in Singapore marketing US and Canada properties. Many sinkies including yours truly bought some thing there. For those who own properties in these countries, the govt also withholds tax on the rental income. 25% for Canada and 30% for US. But my property manager there will forward all the withholding amounts to the govt every month, and then at year end he will send all the profit and loss statement to my accountant. My accountant prepares the tax filing, and emails it to me. i sign off on the return and email it back to him and he files for me with the relevant tax authorities. Normally, the accountant will deduct all the expenses like property tax, maintenance expenses, management fee, banking fee, accountant fee, strata fee etc. He will arrive at a net income amount. Most of the time, the taxes owing on this net income is less then what was already given for withholding. hence, the govt. sends you a refund. If you also have dividend income, you can also send all that to the same accountant. You should make a one time visit to the US to set up your bank account there, and also interview accountants with such experience in filing for international clients. I normally use HSBC as my bank there because they have branches here and makes any funds transfer or top up easier. the large accounting firms usually have some chinese accountants that know about non resident tax filings. I think you are supposed to file a tax return in the US anyway, regardless of whether you have any refund coming back for your withholding. Don't forget to ask the accountant what they charge. Sometimes, any potential refund you might get back from the IRS is less then what you paid the accountant to file for you. LOL.

How much you save depends on how much is your dividend income. Lets say your dividend income is $90,000 USD, (I used $90,000 because any higher and a much higher rate of taxes gets levied.) and you already paid $27,000 USD taxes (30% withholding taxes). Under the single tax filing, your US taxes for an individual should be $5156.25 + 25% of any amount over $37,450. In this case, your $90,000 income should have taxes of $18,293.75. So, you should have received a refund of $27,000 - $18293.75 = USD$8,706.25. I am just using this as a simplistic example, and of course, always consult an accountant. Hope it makes sense.
 
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johnny333

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
....Sometimes, any potential refund you might get back from the IRS is less then what you paid the accountant to file for you. LOL.

I'm losing about US$15,000 to withholding taxes every year. Do you think it's worth going through the trouble of finding a U.S. accountant for that amount:confused:
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
I'm losing about US$15,000 to withholding taxes every year. Do you think it's worth going through the trouble of finding a U.S. accountant for that amount:confused:

So your gross dividend received is USD$50,000? Your taxes on this should be around $8294. Therefore, you are overpaying by $15,000 - $8294 = $6706. Even after paying an accountant, you should be getting a at least a $5000 refund. what I would do is see if its worth while for the accountant to file for all the previous years that you had these $50,000 dividends. If you have similar refund amounts every year, you might be able to get retro funds going back a few years. Again, check with the accountant.
 

johnny333

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
So your gross dividend received is USD$50,000? Your taxes on this should be around $8294. Therefore, you are overpaying by $15,000 - $8294 = $6706. Even after paying an accountant, you should be getting a at least a $5000 refund. what I would do is see if its worth while for the accountant to file for all the previous years that you had these $50,000 dividends. If you have similar refund amounts every year, you might be able to get retro funds going back a few years. Again, check with the accountant.

I was planning a trip to Canada next year. Looks like I'll have to visit the US as well to settle things there. With the current environment with regards to ISIS it's going to be a very big pain:(

Anyone have any recommendations on an accounting firm who is familiar with issues of foreign investors:confused: Where do you suggest I start looking for one:confused: Are there firms in Spore with offices in the US?
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
I was planning a trip to Canada next year. Looks like I'll have to visit the US as well to settle things there. With the current environment with regards to ISIS it's going to be a very big pain:(

Anyone have any recommendations on an accounting firm who is familiar with issues of foreign investors:confused: Where do you suggest I start looking for one:confused: Are there firms in Spore with offices in the US?

To my knowledge, I know of no such accounting firms in Singapore. But I don't know what city in the US your stock broker is. Who are you sending the W-8BEN to? Maybe they can recommend accountant there. Sinkies is easy to travel to and from the US. Unless you are malay, then its different. I know some malay sinkies going to the US who got harassed at the US Homeland security.
 

johnny333

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
To my knowledge, I know of no such accounting firms in Singapore. But I don't know what city in the US your stock broker is. Who are you sending the W-8BEN to? Maybe they can recommend accountant there. Sinkies is easy to travel to and from the US. Unless you are malay, then its different. I know some malay sinkies going to the US who got harassed at the US Homeland security.


I'll check with Etrade to see if they have a recommendation on accounting firms. They have branches all over the US, HK & even in Spore. I've been receiving dividends from the US for a couple of years now & expect to do so in the future.

My broker in Spore(Kay Hian) also had me fill up a W-8BEN form when I opened my trading account. So they must have clients who invest in the US.
 
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