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REAL FAST Harddisks coming

Glaringly

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
Apparently I am still stuck in the old concept of SSD where the difference between SSD and normal HD is that it contains no movable parts. :smile:

So, the latest will kept the memory content intact when power is turn off.

So if the cost is low for SSD retention memory, do you see PC maker will use this technology as a extra cache or for memory rentention, so in future there is no need to reboot your PC from scratch?

Unless it is battery-backed-up RAM everything inside is lost when power is off. There is no commonly sold NV-RAM, but there are industrial NV-RAM that has internal lithium battery. However even battery have a limited lifespan, which means it will keep your memory content only as long as there is still power in battery, when it eventually run flat, it is blank again as well. HDD can store as long as the magnetic records sustains, usually many years.
 

uncleyap

Alfrescian
Loyal
I already have the very fast hard disk. It is call ssd.
This extra large cache only useful in benchmark. Useless in real world application.

Ssd is the future.


There is different in this. Between having your own SSD + HDD and this is the big different that this combination will present to you one whole media combined while there are multiple media in the other case. When combined together 4GB flash & 500GB Winchester as cache, you won't see 504GB media but a faster 500GB media instead. The capacity is 500GB and speed is a SSD speed (provided your access ratio not saturating the 4GB, that your dirty flash sectors gets duplicated into Winchester during your idle time). Speed will drop to normal HDD level only when you saturated 4GB cache, e.g. as you re-format entire device.:wink:

Unless an independent utility is provided to cater, there is no guarantee that sectors needed for boot is being cached (either permanently or before shutting down.) That means the fast SSD like boot may not be there. To permanently cache, it expended the cache capacity, so either none or little of cache remains to increase the post boot performance. To cache boot needed sectors just before shutting down will slow down the shut down time, which means a slower shut down to trade-off the faster boot up, aka LPPL.

:p

Unless an independent utility is provided, the BIOS & OS have totally no idea about this internal cache, and don't now how to control or take advantage of it, the firmware inside the device have to guess and do everything which mostly will not be the optimum.
:cool:
 

singveld

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Like I said , ssd is still faster than ssd+hd. So if you want performance you still want ssd. If you want capacity you still want hd. So, what stopping you to buy one ssd and one hd and put in computer.


How many type of this ssd+hd do they have in market.

Even if all hdd is hybrid, I still want ssd for my os.
 

hotbot

Alfrescian
Loyal
ssd is still expensive! it's not as if you are running some software that require super fast speed, so a normal HDD with 7200rpm is good enough for home use.

Like I said , ssd is still faster than ssd+hd. So if you want performance you still want ssd. If you want capacity you still want hd. So, what stopping you to buy one ssd and one hd and put in computer.


How many type of this ssd+hd do they have in market.

Even if all hdd is hybrid, I still want ssd for my os.
 

singveld

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Speed is great. Just like wanting a faster car. Even if speed limit 100

Get something like 120gb ssd.

And another 2tb trad hd.

Two hdd in computer and it will rock and roll.

Ssd is especially useful for notebook

Really speed things up.

Time is money.
 

hotbot

Alfrescian
Loyal
unless you are running some graphic intensive software, then maybe worth investing in ssd. the time saved between ssd and a 7200rpm harddisk is really insignificant. how much time you intend to save? 5sec or maybe less than an hour a day???:rolleyes:

so far, i only heard that pple installed their primary OS on ssd so that the boot up time is faster. and maybe some other applications on it.

Speed is great. Just like wanting a faster car. Even if speed limit 100

Get something like 120gb ssd.

And another 2tb trad hd.

Two hdd in computer and it will rock and roll.

Ssd is especially useful for notebook

Really speed things up.

Time is money.
 

ivebert

Alfrescian
Loyal
ssd is still expensive! it's not as if you are running some software that require super fast speed, so a normal HDD with 7200rpm is good enough for home use.

Cheebye Kia

It's expensive only for oddjobbers like you!
You drive taxi for a living of course a few hundred is expensive lah
:oIo:
 

uncleyap

Alfrescian
Loyal
Like I said , ssd is still faster than ssd+hd. So if you want performance you still want ssd. If you want capacity you still want hd. So, what stopping you to buy one ssd and one hd and put in computer.


How many type of this ssd+hd do they have in market.

Even if all hdd is hybrid, I still want ssd for my os.

These are different strategies. Seagate's rice-bowl is still Winchester HDD and they have much interest to defend this territory. Western Digital however have SSD products. But I am now not talking about market strategies of these makers, just mentioning their relevant backgrounds. I am talking about user's strategies for performance and cost, using these makers products.

A pure SSD device for OS is a strategy. I will recommend it for performance workstations that shuts down frequently, and critical servers that must come back to life ASAP. To make performance servers or workstations fast these days, you should consider to virtualize them and use the performance of VDISKS/RAM DISKS, many additional advantages of virtual machines applies. Linux OS easily fit into few GB of image foot-print. I configured OS partitions like 15GB with lots of rooms to spare still. 8GB of VDISK using RAMFS can boot many systems up, workstations need more space than servers typically.

Your boot image is copied from SAN/RAID to RAMFS before starting the virtual machine mount as /. Then you mount on /home /var /srv etc from SAN or RAID. One advantage e.g. during maintenance or upgrade of hardware you can suspend the virtual server and quickly copy from one RAMFS to another physical server's RAMFS, and resume serving, you don't even have to shut down and your server already changed from one box into another, flying through highspeed LAN.

We come back to this hybrid flash cached HDD, it is a HDD with enhancement as a strategy of use. It may be your data disk if not OS or both together. To those home / office PCs these are just improved HDDs with just few dollar more worth of (4GB) flash. It is not quite comparable against few hundred bugs SSD, in prices & capacities.

Like I posted here earlier, I surely won't expect it's performance to be SSD when I format the whole thing or defrag it, that is because these operations will surely saturate the capacity of 4GB cache. There is also a point that these drives require less defrag because it is a quasi SSD. Doing defrag on SSD is quite a waste of time, only to make file tables more orderly/sequential.

On the other hand, cache RAM had been constantly on the increase on HDD, for commercial HDD reached 64MB now. The introduction of flash cache may change this picture. Eventually, there will be a logical ration between the capacities of Winchester & flash & RAM caches.

I also foresee that flash cache will be introduced within SAN / RAID / NAS, I am not referring to inside the individual disk elements, but inside the appliance itself, a layer between their existing RAM cache and their disk elements. Some SCSI controllers themselves have got onboard battery-backed RAM cache already, flash does not need batteries. So while replacing these RAID boards, you can just physically transfer their RAID modules from old RAID cards to new RAID cards.

Example : Apple / Dell / HP
http://reviews.cnet.com/i-o-cards/apple-mac-pro-raid/1707-3019_7-32742022.html
RAID engine, 256MB of cache, and an integrated 72-hour battery for protecting cache data.
 

johnny333

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Reminds me of the Seagate Barracuda HDs 10 over years ago, it's the pride of Seagate n there was a case of stealing in container loads! The factory was at this kallang as I recalled...it's $4xx per HD at that time! So many ppl got involved from top to the bottom...


Remember when some thieves stole a container filled with AMD processors a few years back. Must have been alot of hi tech crime when Spore still had a high tech manufacturing industry. I suspect alot are unsolved as I didn't read any followup stories of anyone ever charged :rolleyes:

Remember seeing alot of containers at Sim Lim being filled for export to countries like Russia, etc. Nowadays it's very quiet.
 

SotongMee

Alfrescian
Loyal
Times have changed, now the Casions spins afew S$kilo per minute and collects government taxes upfront like entrance fees and it is legalised.

Now since robbery by one-armed bandit is legalised, stealing container worth of tech goods is low-tech and much yesterday's news liao.

Remember when some thieves stole a container filled with AMD processors a few years back. Must have been alot of hi tech crime when Spore still had a high tech manufacturing industry. I suspect alot are unsolved as I didn't read any followup stories of anyone ever charged :rolleyes:

Remember seeing alot of containers at Sim Lim being filled for export to countries like Russia, etc. Nowadays it's very quiet.
 

mako65

Alfrescian
Loyal
Remember when some thieves stole a container filled with AMD processors a few years back. Must have been alot of hi tech crime when Spore still had a high tech manufacturing industry. I suspect alot are unsolved as I didn't read any followup stories of anyone ever charged :rolleyes:

Remember seeing alot of containers at Sim Lim being filled for export to countries like Russia, etc. Nowadays it's very quiet.
Yah bro, during the boom time( the 90's)...
 

johnny333

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Yah bro, during the boom time( the 90's)...

RIP the companies like Maxtor, Syquest, Quantum, Micropolis(victim of Mdm Ho).

Recently heard that Seagate might even go private as some private equity was rumoured to be interested in buying the company.
 

mako65

Alfrescian
Loyal
RIP the companies like Maxtor, Syquest, Quantum, Micropolis(victim of Mdm Ho).

Recently heard that Seagate might even go private as some private equity was rumoured to be interested in buying the company.
Ssshhhhhh...I got it, I got it, Johnny! Not so loud, wall hve ears......hahaha!
 

Jah_rastafar_I

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I was thinking of adding a SSD HDD to my current WD 1 GB Green HDD. However considering only the lower capacities of 60GB which are selling for under $300.

I'm still using XP on my i7 system with 4GB of RAM, 3 monitor setup & don't know if an SSD will boost speed that much:confused:

In my case I may get a better bang for the buck by upgrading my graphics card? Been looking at the Radeon 6870 cards. Don't play games, just reading some graphs on a daily basis.

oic u don't game. In that case any graphics card is pretty much okay.

6870- is okay mid range card. I was thinking you actually update your OS too if you get a 6870 since you can play direct x 11 games and graphics but you said you don't game so any card is fine. What card are you using right now?
 

Samthaikong

Alfrescian
Loyal
The days of the mechanical harddisk are numbered. The way of SSD (solid state disk) is to go for.

Right now the Apple latest range of Air macbook are all using SSD.
 

johnny333

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
oic u don't game. In that case any graphics card is pretty much okay.

6870- is okay mid range card. I was thinking you actually update your OS too if you get a 6870 since you can play direct x 11 games and graphics but you said you don't game so any card is fine. What card are you using right now?

I'm currently using 2 nvidia cards, but the reason I'm thinking of switching to a Radeon card is because I've read that it runs cooler as it uses less power than nvidia cards. Radeon cards are also able to support eye infinity, with eye infinity, 6 monitors can be driven by one card .

I don't like the new generation of action games because all the movement in these games gives me a headache :(
 

johnny333

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
The days of the mechanical harddisk are numbered. The way of SSD (solid state disk) is to go for.

Right now the Apple latest range of Air macbook are all using SSD.

Apple is always pushing the frontiers of technology :smile:

I can see advantages of using SSD drives in portables but for desktops mechanical drives are going to be around for quite a while because they are cheaper & have larger capacities.

Many people have large file: movies, music, multi-media ,..... It's cheaper to store these files in traditional HDDs. It's also cheaper to setup a RAID system for backups.
 

Jah_rastafar_I

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I'm currently using 2 nvidia cards, but the reason I'm thinking of switching to a Radeon card is because I've read that it runs cooler as it uses less power than nvidia cards. Radeon cards are also able to support eye infinity, with eye infinity, 6 monitors can be driven by one card .

I don't like the new generation of action games because all the movement in these games gives me a headache :(



wah 2 nividia cards in sli?

You don't game so you need 2 cards for what??

Yes ati cards run cooler they have power saving features but i believe nvidia should have it too, take my 5970 for eg it runs around like mid 40 degrees on idle and has rarely ever exceeded 80C even on heavy loads which is very very different from my 8800GTX last time. 480GTX are definitely much much hotter.

Yeah eyeinfinity is good, great for adding in more monitors.

Nvidia supports that 3D though but you don't game anyway and it only works for a few games like avatar.
 
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