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Property News

sgcount

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Loyal
Ya lor. I talked to my friend who is a Senior govt servant earning S$5000 a month. He also regretted buying a property within 5 min walk from CIQ in Woodlands. He got a landed house in Singapore which will belong to him after the owner kick the bucket. I told him to retire in Singapore with a free landed house. Its probably better for him even though he claims to be struggling with cost of living of buying a HDB flat + instalment for cars and kids tuitions.

In your case you shouldn't be buying solely for investment. I know of so many people around me who buy into those "Pay RM8888 to owe a landed house" schemes in Iskandar just because they see their relatives or friends earning millions of profits. These chaps only been to Bukit Indah once and they are buying houses already without thinking if they will ever stay there. In fact, many buy and let their house be vacant cos the excitement dies down after a while.

Those with relatives or semi-retired or cheong JB for massage + petrol drills might be more suited to buy houses in Malaysia. Those throwing all their lifelong savings hoping to earn millions are going to be screwed badly. My advice for all Singaporeans. Stop buying for investments. Buy for your own needs or retirement or to house your mistresses etc. If you go to Malaysia only once in a few months, never buy the properties there.

You know what, Puteri World? What you have written is one of the best advice I have gotten. I only wish I heard this before I bought. But no point for regrets now.

So your friend is now also stuck with an Iskandar property?

I think many Singaporeans rushed in 2013/14 because of the cooling measures in Singapore. And the thought of getting a condo for S$300k when a similar one would cost close to S$1million in Singapore is almost like a no brainer. Back then, I was told I could rent it out. Iskandar will be hot with foreigners coming in, etc. There will be no lack of tenants. But I never considered the other practical and real aspects. The real truths surfaced along the way.

You're right. I hardly go to Malaysia or even JB. Maybe once a year? I had some cash on hand and didn't want it to be left lying passively in the bank back then. Now I realize I will be making a very very huge loss compared to leaving it in the bank. :(

So if you need to advice me now, given my investment aim and not buying for own stay, do you think it's a good idea for me to forego the property and lose S$50+k? I know this is a personal decision only I can decide. Don't worry. I am not holding you responsible. I just want to hear your reasoning and have an honest opinion. The ultimate decision lies with me.

Thank u!
 

Iskandar007

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Loyal
Actually it's not flipping. Flipping is to let go of the property quickly to make money. On the contrary, this is to cut loss. Either feel the pain now, or bleed intensely with much more pain years down the road. But I'm looking at it solely from an investor's point of view, not buying for own stay. It's a very expensive lesson.

There is a very huge oversupply right now. It's not hard to imagine even in the next 5 years, it is quite impossible to find buyers for all the current crop of unsold properties, let alone trying to sell a unit that has already been bought now. The last I heard, Country Garden has 9000+ units, of which only about a third was sold. And that's only one out of many units in the Danga Bay Area. What about the many other projects in Medini and the rest of Iskandar.

If it's just the Singapore media painting a bleak future of Iskandar, we can perhaps say it's only "noise". But it's the Malaysian side themselves who are revealing the same truth, including the JB MPs and UMNO. If all these people are not to be trusted, then surely the astute banks have to be believed. Even they are very cautious about loaning money now for Iskandar properties.

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/m...ee-foreign-optimism-meeting-poor-local-demand

According to the stats, there are more than 330,000 units in Iskandar, which took Singapore about 50 years to build the same number of private residential properties!

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/ca...building-boom-causes-bust-in-property-prices/

And Singapore is 3x smaller than Iskandar with more than 5 million population. Iskandar has much less. Moreover, with Forest City coming in, that's another 300,000 more properties to be added to Iskandar! Where will the buyers be coming from to buy the older, resale properties?

Some argue the 330,000 figure is exaggerated by the Singapore authorities. But it doesn't really matter. Based on the poor sales, reduced land sales and building by developers, the general negative sentiments, we already know the oversupply is not a small problem at all. It will take many decades for the properties to show some signs of moving.

The initial optimism of Iskandar was due to the (wrong) belief that businesses will be attracted to move to Iskandar due to the lower cost of setup. But many from Singapore have done so in the last few years and they relocated back to Singapore. I was told the admin inconveniences, lack of skilled staff and salary issues were some of the main reasons. A Malaysian would not be attracted to work in Iskandar when he or she could get much higher pay just across the causeway in Singapore with a stronger currency. This problem of not being able to attract businesses over is not easy to solve even in the mid-term.

Even if one thinks perhaps waiting 10 years later, the situation might improve. So suppose I have paid $x for my present Iskandar property. It is still unlikely that I will be able to sell it at $x or more given it will probably still be a buyer's market due to the humongous oversupply. Prices will likely be the same or maybe even lower than what I bought in 2013.

But once my bank loan starts, I will have to start paying principal + interest progressively while not earning any rental. (The next 2 years or so will see absolutely no money coming in as the property is still under construction.) Based on my calculation, the amount I will have spent at the 3rd year paying off the bank mortgage will already equal the amount I will lose if I give up the property now. After that, it's just continual losing of money.

Optimistically, even if I can find a tenant, the rental amount will very unlikely cover the monthly mortgage. I estimated I have to top up a few hundred S$ every month. It could be worse once the Malaysian banks increase their interest rate further, maybe to 5-6% in the next few years?

Add to that, if you look at the SGD vs RM currency exchange, the RM has continually been weakening. I'm not referring to only 2 or 3 years data but over the last 10 years! For those of us who bought our Iskandar properties in 2013, we would have already lost about 14% due to the currency exchange.

Someone told me, that's good news. It means you can buy Iskandar property cheaper! (That person obviously has vested interest in Iskandar. He sells Iskandar properties.) But the full picture is not painted. Look from another perspective, you are holding on to a liability that is losing value with time.

Even if you let go your property now, and later regret and say, I shouldn't have given up, I want to retire in Iskandar, it's not difficult to see that 5-10 years down the road, you will be able to buy back in at the same price or even lower than what you have bought now. The advantage is, by then, there is a good chance RM will have depreciated further and you are not losing money paying the bank mortgage if are still holding on the property now.

Why I will not buy an Iskandar property for own stay:

I am still relatively far from retirement. My work, family and friends are all deeply rooted here. I don't find it attractive at all to be spending 1-2 hours traveling each way from Iskandar back to Singapore. I admit I was fooled by the "15 mins" travel from Tuas/Woodlands CIQ to Iskandar as the developers often like to advertise. What they didn't tell us is that the jam we will experience there could hold us back for more than an hour. I've tried going via Woodlands on a weekday, either by car or bus, at about 12pm, and I was stuck for about an hour at the CIQ alone. Totally unexpected.

Why I don't treat it as holiday home:

To pay say S$300,000 for a modest size Iskandar property and use it as a "holiday home" is certainly very expensive! Even if you splurge S$250 every week to stay in a 3 star hotel in Singapore, you can enjoy 25 long years of relaxing "staycation" to equal the cost of buying an Iskandar property!

Some other notes about Iskandar Singaporean investors might have overlooked:

1. Don't assume the property market in Iskandar is like Singapore where there are ready tenants and buyers and you can make positive cash flow from your rental.

2. There is a possibility you may never be able to sell your property next time for decades. Some are not bothered by this as they say they are buying it for "own stay". But unless you are financially very stable and rich, I feel whether as an investor or buying for own use, it's more reassuring to know you can let go of your property. You never know when you need the money urgently or to put it to better use.

3. "But my friend told me he could rent out his apartment in JB and he even sold it for profit. So why should I be worried about my Iskandar property?" I've heard this being reasoned out several times. Check when that friend bought his or her JB property. It's very likely before 2012 when the Iskandar craze started to happen. Many of them bought their properties at very cheap prices back then, naturally they will be able to make profits. Iskandar is still largely being developed and the prices of properties sold are already at inflated prices now. Will locals buy it next time? Moreover, many of the properties are targeted at foreigners. Your pool of future buyers are a lot more limited, if they are even interested next time when there are so much supply to choose from.

4. HSR may be coming but that is not catered for daily travel to and fro from Singapore and Iskandar. The ticket is too expensive for the daily commuter. The project is also expected to delay indefinitely. What is more attractive is the RTS. That was supposed to be ready by 2018. But from the look of it, and the way the Malaysian side is handling the matter, it is almost as good as scrapped. Even with the RTS, it is to just ease the jam at the 2 CIQs. It's definitely better than the current situation, but traveling wise, I think the inconvenience of using it daily still remains to some extent.

All the above may not apply so much for those looking to retire in Iskandar soon, or if you have so much cash on hand (like many of those Chinese from China) you can't think of any better way to dispose of it.

I'm just sharing my thoughts aloud honestly. If you have opinions on Iskandar that are similar or different, please feel free to add on or share so that those who have bought (or thinking of buying?!!) Iskandar properties may learn.

Well, market is soft now, but don't be so pessimistic. Share with you one aritcle:
http://alphamarketingsg.com/iskandar-malaysia-supply-fears-overblown/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui5ZJmf60Gg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUDnr6AYsKo
 
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Relaxman

Alfrescian
Loyal
Har, is it? I guess it's because I am viewing it strictly from an investor's point of view. So now, I am looking only at numbers, facts and logical/reasonable projections, which I didn't consider when I went in. A big mistake.

I wish I could be like some of the bros here who say they are buying for retirement or treat it as holiday home. I need to have a lot more $ to be able to do that.

I trusted the agent who sold me too much. One day, he finally whatsapp me to say actually, he has not been in the property scene for a few years already. My heart sank deep! I knew that guy had nothing in mind except to earn commission from my purchase. I was stupid and didn't do enough research.

I have read a lot more in the past 2 years and spoke to a few key experts. Become more knowledgeable now and that's why alarm bells on Iskandar started ringing inside me only recently.

Will lose about S$50k if I give up. Very painful. But just afraid if keep longer, the pain will likely be more unbearable.

Respect your view on this. Sometimes, you just have to listen to your guts feeling. Losing S$50k in exchange for a peace of mind in your life is definitely worth it. Is just a short term pain. Anyway, you are not the only one who is doing this now. As i mentioned earlier, many SEC owners are doing the same.
 

Iskandar007

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Loyal
Owen Mumford Expands Global Foot Print to Support Asia Pacific
Published byhttp://www.prnewswire.co.uk/, 22/6/15

Owen Mumford, a leader in the medical device industry, today announced its commitment to the Asia Pacific region, with the opening of a new regional hub in Nusajaya, located in the south of Malaysia.

Under the management of Programme Director APAC, Paula Staples, and Site General Manager, Tan Choon Aik, this facility provides Owen Mumford with additional resources to better serve its customers worldwide by enhancing its packaging services and providing additional warehousing within the region.

With the Malaysian hub set to be up and running in September of this year, Paula Staples, Programme Director APAC at Owen Mumford comments, "We are very grateful to all the Government Departments, the Local Authority and the Iskandar Regional Development Authority for their support in helping Owen Mumford to reach this significant milestone in our project."

Staples continued, "We are well on our way with recruiting our local team who will help deliver our company vision and are truly excited to be extending Owen Mumford's global reach with our innovative products, designed to improve lives and reduce healthcare costs."

Appointed Site General Manager for the new Owen Mumford facility in Malaysia, Tan Choon Aik adds, "I am pleased to be part of the new Owen Mumford team and I hope to learn from my global colleagues, whilst sharing my knowledge and experience with everyone here, so that we can build a bright and successful future. Our location will allow us to improve our service to existing customers in the region as well as introducing new customers to the quality of our products and our operation."

Headquartered in Oxford, England, Owen Mumford operates through regional subsidiaries in the UK, USA, France, Germany, China, Mexico and now Malaysia, supported by specialist distributors across five continents. Selected as one of The World Economic Forum's Global Growth Companies, Owen Mumford is a trusted partner to many of the world's biggest pharmaceutical and diagnostic companies and works closely with a wide range of international partners.

Owen Mumford brings 60 years of 'design to manufacture' experience in the medical device market and is looking forward to working with new customers and partners in the region, exceeding their expectations and improving patients' quality of life.

source:http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-rel...508905691.html
 

sgcount

Alfrescian
Loyal
Iskandar 007 & Funniman:

Thanks for the positive "other side" news about Iskandar.

I have heard about alphamarketing and The Edge before. I think they have vested interest in Iskandar so maybe that's why they write all the good stuffs? Anyway, let me take some time to digest all the articles and videos.

To have unbiased views about Iskandar, so far I spoke to mainly people who do not have any vested interest. Meaning they are not selling me Iskandar properties, they are not developers in Iskandar, they don't own Iskandar properties. I just listen to their analysis and see if it makes sense. All of them caution buyers to stay clear of Iskandar.

Yes, I was attracted to Educity, theme parks and hotels in Medini. But I did take notice also there are a lot of condo units, existing ones and those coming up. Just got news a new mixed development called Volt will include another 596 condo units!

Even if Iskandar develops, the main question to ask is whether the supply of residential homes is so much that there will be no demand for them or will yield low rental. Suppose rental is RM2,000 per month. My mortgage is already more than RM3,000 per month--Negative returns. Something I didn't find out first. My Malaysian colleague also told me that unlike Singapore, it is possible for homes in Malaysia to remain the same in value after 10 years. With oversupply, I think that's even more likely to be the case.

I think given enough time, the development in Iskandar sounds exciting. The people I spoke to are not disputing this. But they ask me: Where are your tenants coming from? How much can you expect from your returns every month? Likely to be negative as rental in JB is very low by SG standard. If you want to exit next time, can you find buyers? You already bought at a high price by JB's standard. Will locals buy? With oversupply, will buyers even buy from you at higher price or will they prefer to buy at the same price brand new?

As Puteri World said, for frequent visitors to JB and those wanting to get out of SG and retire, it makes sense. To earn for investment, Iskandar is not the place to do so.

I'll do more reading of all the articles you have sent and see if I can make sense of the situation.

Do you all also have properties in Iskandar? Are you all buying for own stay?
 
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sgcount

Alfrescian
Loyal
Respect your view on this. Sometimes, you just have to listen to your guts feeling. Losing S$50k in exchange for a peace of mind in your life is definitely worth it. Is just a short term pain. Anyway, you are not the only one who is doing this now. As i mentioned earlier, many SEC owners are doing the same.

Sorry, I have missed your previous post. What project is SEC?

Do you know how much the owners are losing? They giving up now because of the fear of losing more money next time on Iskandar also?
 

potter

Alfrescian
Loyal
Sg, if I may add this when you are making your final decision.

Yes, the market glut seems to be there. However, I need to highlight this. Most of the glut is in JB city and its surroundings. Puteri harbour and Medini are in a totally different market altogether. Do not mix JB city and Nusajaya as one market.
There will be some fallout from the glut arising from JB city especially from those Chinese developers but the impact on Medini and PH is limited only to a certain extent. Study the developments from industrial complexes, educity, pinwood, theme park and hotels that are under construction.
Good luck.

At least u get a corridor wider than 1.2. Wahaha..
 

Relaxman

Alfrescian
Loyal
Sorry, I have missed your previous post. What project is SEC?

Do you know how much the owners are losing? They giving up now because of the fear of losing more money next time on Iskandar also?

SEC = Setia Eco Cascadia. Lots of them trying to sell before VP. Many flippers and singaporeans bought units there. They thought they can sell them easily but unfortunately Eco World project is just beside them. A direct competition. Not sure how much they are losing but the longer they hold, the more they lose. Not forgetting the weak public perception on SP Setia due to the leadership crisis due to the hostile takeover from PNB, a GLC.
 

Frodo

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Loyal
Do you all also have properties in Iskandar? Are you all buying for own stay?

Thanks for your sharing your heartache and headache about your investment in Medini.

I bought a landed property in Seri Alam in 2013 and then about one year later bought a unit at KSL Residences@Daya. The landed was for own use and we have been happily staying there for coming two years. While bought for investment, the condo unit was in a sense also for own use because we wanted to have facilities like swimming pool or clubhouse or gym to use, and buying a landed with such complete facilities would cost at least RM2 million or thereabouts. Plus with the low entry cost to buying the condo unit, with "freebies" thrown in, and no payment until collect keys, I thought it would be a good thing to increase some assets, something which is impossible to do in Singapore, at least in my case.

The rental from my HDB flat, at current rental rate, is sufficient to cover the monthly instalments of both properties when the condo unit is ready in 2018. Well, at least this is the mental mathematics I did when buying the condo. Not sure how it would pan out eventually. Was thinking that compared to buying a mass project like Country Gardens of 30,000 units, a 1000 odd units project might offer a better chance of renting out. I hope to be able to rent the condo unit out, even if at low rental the consolation is that my asset is subsidised. This condo would be more for investment but if not worth selling then pass it on to kids when they grow up, let them pay for it when they are working. :p

Whatever your decision is, I wish you the best.:smile:
 
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sgcount

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Loyal
The rental from my HDB flat, at current rental rate, is sufficient to cover the monthly instalments of both properties when the condo unit is ready in 2018. Well, at least this is the mental mathematics I did when buying the condo. Not sure how it would pan out eventually. Was thinking that compared to buying a mass project like Country Gardens of 30,000 units, a 1000 odd units project might offer a better chance of renting out. I hope to be able to rent the condo unit out, even if at low rental the consolation is that my asset is subsidised. This condo would be more for investment but if not worth selling then pass it on to kids when they grow up, let them pay for it when they are working. :p

Thanks Frodo.

Your situation makes sense, cos you are buying for own use. And you are renting out your SG flat. For me, it's very hard to make lifestyle changes to go in and out everyday for work. Can't just rent out my home also due to family issues and inconveniences.

You also made a good choice by paying the condo only when the project is completed. I can now feel the pinch if my bank loan starts. Confirm I won't get anything for the next 2 years as the project is still under construction. Will lose even more $ along the way.

Can pls share if your kids are studying in SG or International School in JB? Do you fetch them in and out of SG also every day?
 
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sgcount

Alfrescian
Loyal
SEC = Setia Eco Cascadia. Lots of them trying to sell before VP. Many flippers and singaporeans bought units there. They thought they can sell them easily but unfortunately Eco World project is just beside them. A direct competition. Not sure how much they are losing but the longer they hold, the more they lose. Not forgetting the weak public perception on SP Setia due to the leadership crisis due to the hostile takeover from PNB, a GLC.


I see.. Thanks for sharing.

I think many Singaporeans took for granted the property market in Iskandar is like Singapore's. I assumed that to some extent also previously.

When people hear I am considering to let go, they said Why you so greedy and want to flip? I said, No, no.... Nobody wants to buy even if I sell 30-40% cheaper. I am actually trying to cut losses.
 

Frodo

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Loyal
I see.. Thanks for sharing.

I think many Singaporeans took for granted the property market in Iskandar is like Singapore's. I assumed that to some extent also previously.

When people hear I am considering to let go, they said Why you so greedy and want to flip? I said, No, no.... Nobody wants to buy even if I sell 30-40% cheaper. I am actually trying to cut losses.

I agree with you that back in 2012 and 2013 here was much optimism in the air about Iskandar properties. Even in 2014 also there was quite a bit of hype. For my case we practically rushed in to buy just in case the authorities suka suka early implement the RM1 million minimum and we would have to kiss goodbye to the thought of moving into JB.
 

Frodo

Alfrescian
Loyal
Thanks Frodo.

Your situation makes sense, cos you are buying for own use. And you are renting out your SG flat. For me, it's very hard to make lifestyle changes to go in and out everyday for work. Can't just rent out my home also due to family issues and inconveniences.

You also made a good choice by paying the condo only when the project is completed. I can now feel the pinch if my bank loan starts. Confirm I won't get anything for the next 2 years as the project is still under construction. Will lose even more $ along the way.

Can pls share if your kids are studying in SG or International School in JB? Do you fetch them in and out of SG also every day?

Indeed making a move over for the family can be a major change. Fortunately in my case I am the only one needing to make the daily commute across the borders. My view is that there are educational choices available in JB. While many rave about the quality of education in Singapore, I don't think it is the only or even the best place to have an education. Sending to international schools is an option. The option we choose is homeschooling. See the ST article from last year on this.

Some S'porean families in Malaysia opt for homeschooling
By Amelia Teng, The Sunday Times, 7 Sep 2014

At least seven Singaporean families who recently moved to Malaysia are homeschooling their children there.

Most of them have children who are in the pre-school and primary-school age range.

The group, which nicknamed themselves "The Kampung", says the environment there is more conducive for homeschooling as there is more "breathing space".

Some of them live in the Nusajaya area in Johor Baru, in estates such as Ledang Heights and Horizon Hills.

One of them is Mrs Sophia Lee, 34, who moved to Iskandar in February last year with her husband, who is a magician, and three sons - Prince, seven, Jethro, five, and Asher, two.

"We were staying in a very small flat in Beach Road for five years. We tried to get a bigger home but couldn't because of loan restrictions," she said.

The family and their pet dog now live in a rented two-storey terraced house in the Bukit Indah neighbourhood in Iskandar. They will soon move to their permanent home, another two-storey corner terraced house a few minutes away, which cost them less than RM1 million (S$390,000).

"Shifting over and homeschooling also seemed to gel, since we had already taken our older boys out of pre-school before we moved," said Mrs Lee.

Another mother who homeschools her children, Mrs Pow Wai Cheng, 46, has been in Iskandar since 2012 with her husband, a pilot, and five children aged four months to 15 years old.

"Homeschooling is not the primary reason we came here - the affordability of the vastness of space was more the factor - and homeschooling facilitated the decision," she said. "We also felt JB would be more suitable for the children because it's nearer nature and allows more room for self-discovery. It's a break from Singapore's academic chase."

Mrs Lee added: "Here we're exempted from the Primary School Leaving Examination, and I don't need to interact with other parents who would keep asking us why my children are not in school.

"We want to spend more time with our children. The pace here is more relaxed, and we enjoy the small things, like just being able to look at the wide vast sky."

- See more at: http://ifonlysingaporeans.blogspot.sg/2014/09/homeschooled-kids-must-sit-new-moe-test.html#.dpuf
 

Tekkun

Alfrescian
Loyal
Maybe this options is good:

Traditional Cambridge exams are now slowly taken over by IB syallabus in Malaysia. International Barralaurete or something.
It is a 50% assignment based and 50% exam based. Major part of is for critical thinking and research teaching methods. Many international schools in JB are offering these. The Middle Year certs are acceptable for University Foundation programmes eg Ausmat, A level, Sam, etc.
 

Iskandar007

Alfrescian
Loyal
Ok. For own use is always much safer. PH is beautiful place also.

I am also buying for own use in PH. I am planning to retire and stay in PH, and renting out my S'pore flat.

If you are thinking of withdraw, besides the deposit or down payment, I think you also have to bear the state levy or loan agreement fees or bank penalty depend what your developer offer last time when you purchase. These are some of the costs you need to take into consideration.

Of course, also have to depend what is your status now, if you are just paying a booking fees, then the loss will not be too much.
 

potter

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dun la so bad.
At least give Sg some informaton so that he can make informed decision.

Sg, I am just a small time investor for my own use in PH.


okay. Be serious.

1. Start to keep $ in the milo tin every mth! Stop buying 4D or TOTO!:p
2. Refiancing if the mthly mortgage payment is high.
3. 天无绝人之路.


glut is part and parcel of property market..:biggrin:
 

Tekkun

Alfrescian
Loyal
okay. Be serious.

1. Start to keep $ in the milo tin every mth! Stop buying 4D or TOTO!:p
2. Refiancing if the mthly mortgage payment is high.
3. 天无绝人之路.

glut is part and parcel of property market..:biggrin:

Yup..milo tin strategy is the best. Sure go up and never come down one. Even bank can go bankrupt.
Up and down is part of any investments.
If you worry every time it go down and that is like end of world, then it is time to say good bye.
Very bad for heart attack. This games not for you.
If you had already decided to end game, then no need to talks.
 
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