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PRC Stealth fighter.....hmmmm

GoFlyKiteNow

Alfrescian
Loyal
Is it really real ?

Recent News about the Stealth fighter from PRC has been doing the rounds.
Claimed to have superior performance to that of the American F35 Raptor
stealth fighter, that came into service 10 years ago.

j22.jpg


Cockpit layout of the PRC stealth fighter - J22

There is something uncanny and unreal about the whole thing.
Is it really real ?. Does it have in-flight refueling for the pilot ?
( See the two water bottles to the left of the pilot seat )

Below is the layout for the Raptor F35.

rap.jpg


f35.jpg

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Ok guys..nothing to worry. Have a laugh and be done with it.
.
 

longbow

Alfrescian
Loyal
Was this the actual picture of the interior? I think it is more of a mock up from some air show.
 

neddy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Was this the actual picture of the interior? I think it is more of a mock up from some air show.

Where is the engine? The famous flawed engine design which Russian chuck out as shit and the Chinese pick up as gold!
 

longbow

Alfrescian
Loyal
Here is latest Bloomberg release jan 5, 2011 hot off the press. I agree that the J20 is years away but Chinese are moving fast.

As I had mentioned earlier, the technical knowhow is easy to obtain but the mfg base is the other piece of the equation. How much do you think it cost to hire a Russian aerospace advisor? How much do you think Sukhoi could afford to pay their engineers vs any of these state controlled Chinese aerospace companies?

Case in point, Iranian scientist probably know how to build a bomb but the weak Iranina mfg capabilities prevents it from building the centrifuges, and other components needed to put together a bomb. Same case for jet engines - there is no secret to building a jet engine but few countries have the aerospace mfg infra to make the close tolerance parts needed for a modern day jet engine.

My feel is that the Chinese have a pretty advance mfg infrastructure from high performance metallurgy to composites. So they can proceed very quickly. Furthermore there is no lack of $$ on their part. And that JV with GE Safrane for the new xleap engine could prove to be the linchpin needed.

So while that F20 maybe 10 years away, it is best not to underestimate their capabilities.

And if the Chinese can perfect that carrier killer missile of theirs, they could easily decimate lesser warships from neighboring countries within a 1000 mile radius of their coast. Given that they are land based (lots of supply), they could easily fire off an extra few for redundancy.





PChina's Missile and Stealth Fighter Advances Draw U.S. Attention

By Tony Capaccio - Jan 5, 2011 Advances in Chinese military technology, including a new anti-ship ballistic missile and possibly a radar-evading fighter plane, are drawing scrutiny from Pentagon officials days before Defense Secretary Robert Gates is due to meet with his counterpart in Beijing.

Vice Admiral Jack Dorsett, the head of Navy intelligence, said yesterday that the Pentagon had underestimated the speed at which China has developed and fielded a ballistic missile that may be capable of hitting a maneuvering U.S. aircraft carrier. Dorsett said it was too early to tell whether the U.S. also has misjudged China’s capability to build a stealth fighter jet.

“We’ve been on the mark on an awful lot of our assessments but there has been a handful of things we have underestimated,” Dorsett told defense reporters.
The DF-21D missile now has so- called initial combat capability, he said, according to his analysts and U.S. Pacific Command head Admiral Robert Willard.

China’s advances in military technology are drawing close scrutiny and concern from the Pentagon and new Republican- controlled House, particularly when they may jeopardize the dominance of U.S. naval forces in the Pacific region. News of the Chinese advances comes as Congress prepares to consider cuts in the Defense Department budget.

The timing of the Pentagon disclosures may be linked to those budget debates, which come after a more than a decade-long surge in Chinese defense spending that is beginning to yield new planes, missiles, submarines and perhaps soon an aircraft carrier, said Huang Jing, a visiting professor at National University of Singapore’s Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Diplomacy.

‘Rising Power’

“You have an established superpower seeming to stagnate or even decline and meanwhile you have another rising power coming up,” Huang said. “This kind of comparison makes this whole issue even more serious.”

The news on China’s military is also drawing more attention because President Barack Obama is set to host President Hu Jintao in Washington in less than two weeks. Huang said.

The Chinese have tested the DF-21D missile over land a sufficient number of times to conclude that “the missile system itself is truly competent and capable,” Dorsett said. Still, China has not yet demonstrated a capability to use the missile effectively in combat situations, he said.

Chinese Threat

Defense Secretary Robert Gates said in a Sept. 16 speech that China’s “investments in anti-ship weaponry and ballistic missiles could threaten America’s primary way to project power and help allies in the Pacific -- particularly our forward bases and carrier strike groups.”

Gates is scheduled to visit China next week for talks seeking to improve military relations.

Dorsett’s remarks on the DF-21D status go further than the Pentagon did in its latest annual report on China’s military, released in August.

The 2010 report included a sketch of the notional flight profile of the new missile. It gave no indication that the missile had reached, or was close to, an initial combat capability. Nor did the report mention China’s new J-20 stealth fighter, which has appeared in photos on the Internet in recent days.

U.S. intelligence in particular misjudged China’s progress developing the technology necessary to sense and attack a maneuvering vessel, Dorsett said. Dorsett heads the Navy’s Office of Naval Operations for Information Dominance, which includes Navy intelligence.

Surprising Progress

On advances in ballistic-missile capabilities by the Chinese, Dorsett said “we certainly wouldn’t have expected them to be this far along” if asked five years ago.
“The technology has increased their probability of being able to employ a salvo of missiles to be able to hit a maneuvering target” he said.

Still, the Chinese military has yet to demonstrate it can effectively employ the missile, Dorsett said.

“They have certainly test fired this over land, but to our knowledge they have not test fired this over water against maneuvering targets,” he said.

China has “the intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, they have sensors on ships that can feed into the missile for targeting,” he said. “So could they start to employ that? Yes, I think so.” He added that it is unclear how “proficient they are in the employment” of that capability.

Stealth Fighter

Photos of the J-20 aircraft have appeared on the Internet and Aviation Week & Space Technology reported Monday that the aircraft was conducing early runway tests as a prelude to a first test flight. The aircraft is comparable to the U.S. F-22 and would be China’s first stealth plane.

“I think time will tell whether we have underestimated. I’m not convinced that we have at this point. It will take more time,” Dorsett said.

The J-20 disclosure “was not a surprise,” Dorsett said. “It’s not clear to me” when the aircraft will reach its initial operational status.

“They have been able invest in a military build-up and a stealth fighter is just one aspect of that,” he said. “The fact they are making progress in that should not be a surprise.

‘‘How far along are they? I don’t know. They clearly have an initial prototype,’’ Dorsett said. ‘‘Is it advanced and how many trials and test and demos do they need to go through before it becomes operational? That’s not clear to me.’’

Reaching that status could take years, he said.

To contact the reporters on this story: Tony Capaccio in Washington at [email protected]

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Mark Silva at [email protected]
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hahaho

Alfrescian
Loyal
Was this the actual picture of the interior? I think it is more of a mock up from some air show.

looks like they did not do a good copy of the original .
anyways, not easy to make copies of such sofisticte things.
not like make software .
 

lockeliberal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear Go

I would like to add, take a look at the F22 Raptor, the Russian Fifth Generation Fighter, n the Chinese J-20 and you will see a steady decline in design and manufacturing capabilities.

The principles behind stealth, stealth shaping and stealth manufacturing are hardly secrets anymore. However the principles apply equally to all. the laws of physics do not discriminate between Americans Russians and the Chinese

So what does the shaping and look of the Chinese stealth tell you, on first glance no where as stealthy as the Russians or the US but probably as stealthy as non stealth optimized design like the Super Hornet and or the Euro Fighter.

Do note that all the stories of RCS reduction speak of details as tiny as a screw being loose being the difference between showing up on radar or not.

That said and done this is as advanced as anything they have come up with including copying the SU 27



Locke
 

Debonerman

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Loyal
I fucking cannot tahan anymore liao! Nah! Here is PRC Stealth Fighter cockpit built with the help of the Israelis!:oIo:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HIu87lKxZsI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HIu87lKxZsI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
 

GoFlyKiteNow

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear Go

I would like to add, take a look at the F22 Raptor, the Russian Fifth Generation Fighter, n the Chinese J-20 and you will see a steady decline in design and manufacturing capabilities.

The principles behind stealth, stealth shaping and stealth manufacturing are hardly secrets anymore. However the principles apply equally to all. the laws of physics do not discriminate between Americans Russians and the Chinese

So what does the shaping and look of the Chinese stealth tell you, on first glance no where as stealthy as the Russians or the US but probably as stealthy as non stealth optimized design like the Super Hornet and or the Euro Fighter.

Do note that all the stories of RCS reduction speak of details as tiny as a screw being loose being the difference between showing up on radar or not.

That said and done this is as advanced as anything they have come up with including copying the SU 27

Locke

They simply do not have the vital parts, so to speak.

The engine, the avionics and other critical parts are not that easy to
copy. Yes, in form and fit, one may make copies. But function wise
is another matter.

One can make a proto in ths shape of a stealth and make it fly
with a simple engine and take fotos. It dont tell anything.
But it having the capabilities of the US or Russian stealth aircrafts,
the performance etc..that is another matter.

There are reports , skeptical no doubt, if this whole thing was
just a showmanship exercise by the PLA.
 

pallkia

Alfrescian
Loyal
For those anti-Chinese or sour grapes out there,you will be very frustrated to hear more heart attack good news day by day by the Chinese.

Even it is a fake,it actually caused anxiety in 老大USA is already a stunt for the Chinese who is merely 1/10 per capita income of USA!
 

Debonerman

Alfrescian
Loyal
For those anti-Chinese or sour grapes out there,you will be very frustrated to hear more heart attack good news day by day by the Chinese.

Even it is a fake,it actually caused anxiety in 老大USA is already a stunt for the Chinese who is merely 1/10 per capita income of USA!

The anxiety is being generated by the military industrial complex there. Scare tactics are good for sales figures. PAP, The Government, Mindef, The Singapore Armed Forces, Singapore Technologies, Temasick, Ho Ching , The Lee family.....Aaaaaah fuck....:mad:
 

longbow

Alfrescian
Loyal
Question is whether the Chinese will have the ability to make these parts within the next 10 to 15 years!! You are talking about a country with 1.4B people (just the top 0.5 percent is 7 million people and they have the edu infra to educate these people), lots of engineers, strong mfg base, with the $. This is not some closed 3rd world nation like Iran or NK under sanctions.

If one were to sit back and think they will never be able to do so, one may be unpleasantly surprised.

I travel to Shanghai frequently and the country is attracting the best talents; both foreign talents as well as the top students that come from the top US uni. The economy is so vibrant that everyone wants to work there and get a "piece of the action".

I feel that they can develop or build almost any technology that they want to. All the ingredients are there! They need time but the learniing curve is short.

They simply do not have the vital parts, so to speak.

The engine, the avionics and other critical parts are not that easy to
copy. Yes, in form and fit, one may make copies. But function wise
is another matter.

One can make a proto in ths shape of a stealth and make it fly
with a simple engine and take fotos. It dont tell anything.
But it having the capabilities of the US or Russian stealth aircrafts,
the performance etc..that is another matter.

There are reports , skeptical no doubt, if this whole thing was
just a showmanship exercise by the PLA.
 

GoFlyKiteNow

Alfrescian
Loyal
Question is whether the Chinese will have the ability to make these parts within the next 10 to 15 years!! You are talking about a country with 1.4B people (just the top 0.5 percent is 7 million people and they have the edu infra to educate these people), lots of engineers, strong mfg base, with the $. This is not some closed 3rd world nation like Iran or NK under sanctions.

If one were to sit back and think they will never be able to do so, one may be unpleasantly surprised.

I travel to Shanghai frequently and the country is attracting the best talents; both foreign talents as well as the top students that come from the top US uni. The economy is so vibrant that everyone wants to work there and get a "piece of the action".

I feel that they can develop or build almost any technology that they want to. All the ingredients are there! They need time but the learniing curve is short.

I am unable to see the connection between population qty and competitiveness, innovation. Why this needless mention abt 1.4 billion. We are not discussing consumption of resources !..

Remember, the Egyptians , 5000 years ago produced technological masterpiece of the great pyramids. A complex endeavor unparalleled in terms of technological complexity and implementation vs the great wall of China, which was done about 600 years ago..an effort that is akin to a monotonous project of simplistic gigantism.

And Egypt had less than 10 % of the population of China at that point in time.

The point I am making is that size and qty has no relevance in these matters of innovation and originality. No offense meant.
..

" in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had 500 years of brotherly love - they had stability, harmony and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock "
.
 

wikiphile

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
They simply do not have the vital parts, so to speak.

The engine, the avionics and other critical parts are not that easy to
copy. Yes, in form and fit, one may make copies. But function wise
is another matter.

One can make a proto in ths shape of a stealth and make it fly
with a simple engine and take fotos. It dont tell anything.
But it having the capabilities of the US or Russian stealth aircrafts,
the performance etc..that is another matter.

There are reports , skeptical no doubt, if this whole thing was
just a showmanship exercise by the PLA.

Hi, PRC tried to reverse-engineered the Saturn AL-31 years ago to reduce their dependency for foreign suppliers and to create their own domestic engine that could rival foreign makers. Until today i think it is still a lemon :biggrin:
 

kukubird58

Alfrescian
Loyal
The principles behind stealth, stealth shaping and stealth manufacturing are hardly secrets anymore. However the principles apply equally to all. the laws of physics do not discriminate between Americans Russians and the Chinese

So what does the shaping and look of the Chinese stealth tell you, on first glance no where as stealthy as the Russians or the US but probably as stealthy as non stealth optimized design like the Super Hornet and or the Euro Fighter.

Do note that all the stories of RCS reduction speak of details as tiny as a screw being loose being the difference between showing up on radar or not.

yes...the general principles are well known....
advances in this field will be on materials technology; especially RAM (radar absorbing materials).
 

GoFlyKiteNow

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Loyal
yes...the general principles are well known....
advances in this field will be on materials technology; especially RAM (radar absorbing materials).

Yes, the principles are well known.
Anyone can make a structure that has some form of RCS reduction.
By using absorbent materials , form shape and contours.

Especially when one have a predecessor aircraft to look at and emulate
its shape and contours.

But the US stealth aircraft is much more than that.
Its capabilities go beyond just masking radar detection.
The very advanced stages of weapon, propulsion and flight performance
are another matter altogether.
 

kukubird58

Alfrescian
Loyal
.

Especially when one have a predecessor aircraft to look at and emulate
its shape and contours.

But the US stealth aircraft is much more than that.
Its capabilities go beyond just masking radar detection.
The very advanced stages of weapon, propulsion and flight performance
are another matter altogether.

Hahaha...it is not simply look see and emulating blindly...
nowadays everything can be mathematically modelled, predicted and then verified in tests...

of course a aircraft comes in a package....it is naive to think that stealthy alone is enough..
 
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