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NATO vs Russia - Who Will Win?

makapaaa

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
NATO Downgrades Russian Ties to Protest Georgia War (Update1)

By Viola Gienger and James G. Neuger
data



Aug. 19 (Bloomberg) -- NATO downgraded ties with Russia to protest the invasion of Georgia, struggling to go beyond verbal condemnation of Russia's first foreign military campaign since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
``There can be no business as usual with Russia under present circumstances,'' Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer told reporters after allied foreign ministers met in Brussels today. He ruled out NATO-Russia meetings ``as long as Russian forces are basically occupying a large part of Georgia.''
Allied and Georgian officials disputed Russian accounts that a retreat is under way. Georgia said Russia strengthened its grip on the Black Sea port of Poti, while North Atlantic Treaty Organization officials detected only initial signs of troop movements.
The conflict shaped up as the sharpest confrontation between Russia and the West since the end of the Cold War. The war represented Russia's pushback against the expansion of western military influence a decade after former Soviet satellites sought refuge in the U.S.-led alliance.
Georgia has become a key western ally on Russia's southern frontiers, in part because it is an emerging corridor for oil and natural-gas shipments from the Caspian Sea region to Europe, skirting Russia.
No `New Line'
NATO temporarily halted meetings of the NATO-Russia Council, a body set up in 2002 to promote cooperation among the now 26 allies and Russia.
``NATO is not going to permit a new line to be drawn in Europe, a line between those who were fortunate enough to make it into the trans-Atlantic structures and those who still aspire to the trans-Atlantic structures,'' said U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who called the emergency NATO meeting.
De Hoop Scheffer also called it ``pathetic'' that Russian officials have again threatened to target a NATO member, Poland, with ballistic missiles in response to U.S. plans to set up an anti-missile base there.
Rice plans to sign the basing agreement in Warsaw tomorrow, foreseeing the stationing of 10 interceptor rockets in Poland to guard against attacks by ``rogue'' states such as Iran.
NATO insisted that Russia abide by the terms of an Aug. 16 cease-fire and pull combat troops back behind the pre-conflict lines, saying it can maintain only its previous ``peacekeeping'' force in South Ossetia, the breakaway Georgian region it seized during the five-day war that began Aug. 8.
Russian Pullback
In Moscow, Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of Russia's General Staff, said Russian rear-guard units and hardware are being withdrawn to South Ossetia. The pullback will speed up after Aug. 22, when peacekeepers posts are completed as part of additional security measures in the area, he said.
No ``significant'' pullback is under way, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said. French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said ``we are very disappointed because despite the pledges that were made there has been no withdrawal at all.''
Russian troops occupy about a third of Georgia, including South Ossetia and Abkhazia, another region that broke from central Georgian control in the 1990s, Georgian government spokesman Goka Gabashvili said.
In addition to the Poti port, a trade hub between Central Asia and Europe that handled 7.7 million metric tons of cargo last year, Russian forces remain in control of the central city of Gori, cutting off the eastern side of the country from the Black Sea.
`People Are Terrified'
Poti Sea Port Corp. Chairman Lasha Akhaladze said by phone today Russian troops have taken 22 Georgian soldiers hostage and ``negotiations are under way.'' Russian soldiers are patrolling in 20 armored vehicles, he said. ``People are terrified.''
Russia denied that account. The Russian military is in Poti ``for specific missions,'' Nogovitsyn said. ``That doesn't mean we control Poti.''
Kouchner said the European Union wouldn't reconsider support for Russia's bid to join the Word Trade Organization. ``We wouldn't want to put such pressure on Russia,'' he said.
Rice said the U.S. won't press NATO to put Georgia and Ukraine, another former Soviet republic, on the fast track to NATO membership. Such a plan was vetoed by Germany and France in April, while all allies pledged to offer membership to both countries eventually.
Diplomatic protests are ``as far as NATO could go,'' Frederic Bozo, an analyst at the French Institute for International Relations, said in a telephone interview. ``No one wants a direct, a military, confrontation with Russia, no NATO member, not even the U.S.''
Vienna Talks
In Vienna, the 56-nation Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe brokered an agreement to send 20 monitors today and 80 in coming days, said Finnish Foreign Minister Alexander Stubb, the trans-Atlantic group's chairman.
Russia and Georgia exchanged prisoners taken during fighting. Georgia traded five Russians, including two pilots, for 15 soldiers, Georgia's National Security Adviser, Kakha Lomaia, said by mobile phone today.
Georgia lost 197 soldiers in the fighting, while Russia has reported 74 dead. About 2,000 civilians died in South Ossetia, Russian officials have said. South Ossetia broke away from Georgia in a war in the early 1990s, and Russian peacekeepers have been deployed there under a 1992 agreement.
The United Nations and 16 aid groups asked national governments yesterday for $58.3 million to rush food, water, medicines and shelter supplies to 128,700 Georgians forced from their homes by the fighting with Russia. Donors already have pledged $23 million to the six-month aid disbursement, according to the UN.
To contact the reporter on this story: Viola Gienger in Brussels at [email protected]; James G. Neuger in Brussels at [email protected]
Last Updated: August 19, 2008 10:32 EDT
 

chuckyworld

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
NATO Downgrades Russian Ties to Protest Georgia War (Update1)

By Viola Gienger and James G. Neuger
data



Aug. 19 (Bloomberg) -- NATO downgraded ties with Russia to protest the invasion of Georgia, struggling to go beyond verbal condemnation of Russia's first foreign military campaign since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
``There can be no business as usual with Russia under present circumstances,'' Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer told reporters after allied foreign ministers met in Brussels today. He ruled out NATO-Russia meetings ``as long as Russian forces are basically occupying a large part of Georgia.''
Allied and Georgian officials disputed Russian accounts that a retreat is under way. Georgia said Russia strengthened its grip on the Black Sea port of Poti, while North Atlantic Treaty Organization officials detected only initial signs of troop movements.
The conflict shaped up as the sharpest confrontation between Russia and the West since the end of the Cold War. The war represented Russia's pushback against the expansion of western military influence a decade after former Soviet satellites sought refuge in the U.S.-led alliance.
Georgia has become a key western ally on Russia's southern frontiers, in part because it is an emerging corridor for oil and natural-gas shipments from the Caspian Sea region to Europe, skirting Russia.
No `New Line'
NATO temporarily halted meetings of the NATO-Russia Council, a body set up in 2002 to promote cooperation among the now 26 allies and Russia.
``NATO is not going to permit a new line to be drawn in Europe, a line between those who were fortunate enough to make it into the trans-Atlantic structures and those who still aspire to the trans-Atlantic structures,'' said U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who called the emergency NATO meeting.
De Hoop Scheffer also called it ``pathetic'' that Russian officials have again threatened to target a NATO member, Poland, with ballistic missiles in response to U.S. plans to set up an anti-missile base there.
Rice plans to sign the basing agreement in Warsaw tomorrow, foreseeing the stationing of 10 interceptor rockets in Poland to guard against attacks by ``rogue'' states such as Iran.
NATO insisted that Russia abide by the terms of an Aug. 16 cease-fire and pull combat troops back behind the pre-conflict lines, saying it can maintain only its previous ``peacekeeping'' force in South Ossetia, the breakaway Georgian region it seized during the five-day war that began Aug. 8.
Russian Pullback
In Moscow, Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of Russia's General Staff, said Russian rear-guard units and hardware are being withdrawn to South Ossetia. The pullback will speed up after Aug. 22, when peacekeepers posts are completed as part of additional security measures in the area, he said.
No ``significant'' pullback is under way, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said. French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said ``we are very disappointed because despite the pledges that were made there has been no withdrawal at all.''
Russian troops occupy about a third of Georgia, including South Ossetia and Abkhazia, another region that broke from central Georgian control in the 1990s, Georgian government spokesman Goka Gabashvili said.
In addition to the Poti port, a trade hub between Central Asia and Europe that handled 7.7 million metric tons of cargo last year, Russian forces remain in control of the central city of Gori, cutting off the eastern side of the country from the Black Sea.
`People Are Terrified'
Poti Sea Port Corp. Chairman Lasha Akhaladze said by phone today Russian troops have taken 22 Georgian soldiers hostage and ``negotiations are under way.'' Russian soldiers are patrolling in 20 armored vehicles, he said. ``People are terrified.''
Russia denied that account. The Russian military is in Poti ``for specific missions,'' Nogovitsyn said. ``That doesn't mean we control Poti.''
Kouchner said the European Union wouldn't reconsider support for Russia's bid to join the Word Trade Organization. ``We wouldn't want to put such pressure on Russia,'' he said.
Rice said the U.S. won't press NATO to put Georgia and Ukraine, another former Soviet republic, on the fast track to NATO membership. Such a plan was vetoed by Germany and France in April, while all allies pledged to offer membership to both countries eventually.
Diplomatic protests are ``as far as NATO could go,'' Frederic Bozo, an analyst at the French Institute for International Relations, said in a telephone interview. ``No one wants a direct, a military, confrontation with Russia, no NATO member, not even the U.S.''
Vienna Talks
In Vienna, the 56-nation Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe brokered an agreement to send 20 monitors today and 80 in coming days, said Finnish Foreign Minister Alexander Stubb, the trans-Atlantic group's chairman.
Russia and Georgia exchanged prisoners taken during fighting. Georgia traded five Russians, including two pilots, for 15 soldiers, Georgia's National Security Adviser, Kakha Lomaia, said by mobile phone today.
Georgia lost 197 soldiers in the fighting, while Russia has reported 74 dead. About 2,000 civilians died in South Ossetia, Russian officials have said. South Ossetia broke away from Georgia in a war in the early 1990s, and Russian peacekeepers have been deployed there under a 1992 agreement.
The United Nations and 16 aid groups asked national governments yesterday for $58.3 million to rush food, water, medicines and shelter supplies to 128,700 Georgians forced from their homes by the fighting with Russia. Donors already have pledged $23 million to the six-month aid disbursement, according to the UN.
To contact the reporter on this story: Viola Gienger in Brussels at [email protected]; James G. Neuger in Brussels at [email protected]
Last Updated: August 19, 2008 10:32 EDT


No one win all will lose, it will be the end of earth, thanks to Bush, all he think is making war.:mad::mad:
 

congo9

Alfrescian
Loyal
Russia won't dare to provoke NATO :p
NATO : NO ACTION TALK ONLY !

Russia turn off the gas pipe which they are feeding the Europe ......and if that happens, gosh ........ it the begining of world war 3 !

But anyway, there is money to be made from selling gas to Europe. Why risk war ? Russia lose money too if he start a war .

So i think Russia will talk talk threathen a bit , as long as both Russia and NATO don lose too much face, thing can work out. May be ......... one country 2 system. Georgia will go under Russia , but it is self goverened ! Every body's happy and no war.

Money keep rolling in , that what keep the world in harmony !
 

Cestbon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Nato And Russia will going to war againt each others. Most Nato can do is sanction Russia only. If really go to war Iran, North Korea, Cuba and Venezuela will be the most happy country.
If go to war many country like to see USA lost in the war. Just like 911 incident many Muslim will celebrate.
Osama should crash the plane into White House or US Army base. Not the twin tower.
 

pia

Alfrescian
Loyal
Nato And Russia will going to war againt each others. Most Nato can do is sanction Russia only. If really go to war Iran, North Korea, Cuba and Venezuela will be the most happy country.
If go to war many country like to see USA lost in the war. Just like 911 incident many Muslim will celebrate.
Osama should crash the plane into White House or US Army base. Not the twin tower.

Conventional war? Stalemate.

Nuclear war? All lose.

And the winner is ... Mr. Osama!
 

hughgrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
economy already bad as it is, if got war , then lagi worse. all can go and be farmers and eat grass
 

zack123

Alfrescian
Loyal
It's not a question of who will win but how much people will lose.

There are no winners in war....only which side will suffer less.
 

zhihau

Super Moderator
SuperMod
Asset
... Nato And Russia will going to war againt each others. Most Nato can do is sanction Russia only ...

sanction? you kidding me? Russian oil export ranks the second after the Saudis. sanction? the Russians would be more than happy when NATO sanctions her, i'm sure the Saudis would be happy too :biggrin:
 
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