Mr Tan, how did we arrive when govt has to beg that citizens are hired first?

[Confuseous]

What stood out for me with regards to the Fair Consideration Framework, announced by the Ministry of Manpower (MOM) on 23 September, were these two lines in the ministry’s press release, attributed to Mr Tan Chuan Jin:

“The framework is not about ‘Hire Singaporeans First, or Hire Singaporeans Only’. What the government is doing is to help them get a fair opportunity.”

The same minister had said, in May, that like TAFEP, he preferred to use the ”moral suasion approach to tackle the issue of discrimination at the workplace.”

Mr Tan “was quick to add that for now, the Government prefers to stick to its approach of persuading companies to change. It “is working for us”, he said, as the root cause of discrimination in Singapore is employers’ mindsets.”

His latest about-turn seems to imply that the “moral suasion” route in fact is not working, but at the same time, he is reluctant to introduce legislation to protect Singaporean workers – and is only willing to pussyfoot around the matter by introducing instead a “framework”. One which he at the same time has to reiterate is not about “hire Singaporeans first”.

There are several things about the above two latest sentences in the MOM statement which are disturbing.

One, that the minister needed to clarify that the framework is not about hiring Singaporeans first. For all intent and purposes, the framework is indeed about hiring Singaporeans first, in fact. How else could it be? If it were not, then why even bother to go through this whole exercise?

Or is the minister saying that all he wants employers and businesses to do is for them to just “consider” Singaporeans first only? Like, you know, all you need do is to think this in your mind, the 2 weeks advert on the MOM Jobs Bank notwithstanding.



And two, if that were so, it is a sad state of affairs that we have come to, as indeed we have, that our Government has to plead/beg/implore/urge (choose any word) employers to consider Singaporeans first. How did we end up this way?

Three, the fact that the minister had to “clarify” so promptly (in the very same statement) that the framework “is not about ‘Hire Singaporeans First’”, shows that he is almost apologetic for having to come up with such a framework. And apparently he is also quick to distance himself from any such suggestion – that the framework is about hiring Singaporeans first.

Apparently, he feels there is something wrong with such a suggestion.

Isn’t it a bit strange that a minister would shy away from saying, “Yes, please hire Singaporeans first”? That he in fact had to disavow such a suggestion when the framework is in fact about hiring Singaporeans first?

How did we end up in such a state – where citizens have to bend at the knee to even be considered for a job?

There are, of course, a few culprits – the most important one being the Government’s open-door immigration and foreign labour policies the last 10 to 15 years, particularly the last 5 years or so. Many have said much about this already.

There is another culprit which is just as responsible for this woeful state we find ourselves in – and this is the National Trade Union Congress (NTUC).....

http://andrewlohhp.wordpress.com/2013/10/02/fair-consideration-a-govt-pleads/

 

[winnipegjets]

“The framework is not about ‘Hire Singaporeans First, or Hire Singaporeans Only’. What the government is doing is to help them get a fair opportunity.”

Why should this situation even arise in the first place? It is an admission of the PAP's failure to look after the interest of sinkees. And this statement to placate foreigners suggests that the PAP would revert back to its old policy of putting foreigners first after the next election.

 

[Debonerman]

Anything from Andrew Loh is like a beautifully wrapped gift to the Opposition cause with tick, tick, tick sounds emanating from the inside.............

 

[Confuseous]

At best, it is lack of courage in doing what is right.
At worst, sheer incompetence.

 

[lianbeng]

lianbeng replies to thread: he's only an Acting Minister lah not Full Minister! stop acting lah Tan Chuan Jin!

 

[laksaboy]

Why should this situation even arise in the first place? It is an admission of the PAP's failure to look after the interest of sinkees. And this statement to placate foreigners suggests that the PAP would revert back to its old policy of putting foreigners first after the next election.

Singapore is an open economy - therefore it needs to keep costs low (artificially depress wages) by any means necessary in order to placate the corporations.

Unfortunately, an open economy is like a prostitute with open legs: one day she wakes up and decides it isn't worth it anymore and she's quitting for good. But will anyone respect her, or even give her fair consideration?

The answer is quite obvious.

 

[singveld]

they control the floodgate. Yet they blame the employers.
Just for show lah.

 

[tanwahtiu]

like I said HDB properties finance are flawed from the start.

Other countries do not have HDB type properties where 80% of population live in HDB flat.

A. your CPF is old age retirement savings tied to HDB housing, as such
B. your cannot take your HDB to refinance to start a new technology biz during the golden years period, as such
c. you cannot take out the equity growth in your HBD through refinancing for biz opportunity, you must sell your HDB first,
D. where would you live after you sell your HDB?, therefore
E. you have to buy another HDB at current price which is the same price you sold your HDB, therefore
F. lppl you have to buy your next HDB and take a higher mortgage loan, therefore
G. this make you take a bigger home loan repayment per month which does not make sense at all. as such
H. where got chance to start a new tech biz opportunity during the golden years period.

Ah Nehs, PRCs and angmohs owned private properties in their own country and use their home equity growth to refinance new tech biz opportunity. 80% of Singaporeans kenna stuck living in HDB unable to do the same and therefore loss great opportunities to start new tech biz (manufacturing or services) during the golden years period.

Today, PAP is begging Ah Nehs, Ah Tiongs and Angmohs biz people to set up offices in Singapore and allow them to bring in their own kinds to work in Singapore. PAP give free PRs and citizenship papers like toilet papers.

Singaporeans now become 2nd class citizens in their own country when come to employment opportunities and begging to be employed first in line.

80% of Singaporeans living in HDB is now unemployable, how come? Has to do with flawed HDB policy tied to CPF?

If HDB is treated the same as private properties able to refinance for biz opportunities, 80% of Singaporeans should be entrepreneurs and bosses today, and hiring own kind, and even go to Ah Neh and Ah Tiong countries to set up offices, and send their own Singaporeans over there to work.

Think about it I also tulan man!

LKY go get fucked!

Why should this situation even arise in the first place? It is an admission of the PAP's failure to look after the interest of sinkees. And this statement to placate foreigners suggests that the PAP would revert back to its old policy of putting foreigners first after the next election.

 

[mojito]

they control the floodgate. Yet they blame the employers.
Just for show lah.

Now they are getting the reluctant employers to wayang together with them.

 

[halsey02]

Singapore is an open economy - therefore it needs to keep costs low (artificially depress wages) by any means necessary in order to placate the corporations.

Unfortunately, an open economy is like a prostitute with open legs: one day she wakes up and decides it isn't worth it anymore and she's quitting for good. But will anyone respect her, or even give her fair consideration?

The answer is quite obvious.

Sad to say this, sadder to write with a lump in my throat, a sadness in my heart..."the SINgapore workers, had became that, 'prostitute' whose 'legs are spread wide open' encourage by ' c.u.n.t.'...are are being 'violated' till she has no more decency left, no more value left & offering 'services' at the 'lowest possible' price, & surviving at a pitiful rate...much more pitiful, than the hordes of foreigners who come & 'violate' her even further.

SINgapore workers...have no more value!

 

[Confuseous]

I refer to your article “NTUC DIRECTOR HEARS MANY STORIES OF HIRING DISCRIMINATION AGAINST SGS“.

Even with recently enforcement of new Fair Consideration Framework, this is just brushing the top speck of the dust.

I had hoped that with this, it would send out strong signals to HR and companies that our government has heard our voices but alas, and as usual, business as usual.

Why do I say so?

I had an interview today, with a Fortune 500 company. Hiring Managers are Chinese, so I supposed they are locals. It was a thorough interview which I had enjoyed very much conversing with them until one of them asked some questions:-

Mr A: Do you still need to go for reservist?
Me : Yes.( Thinking the usual question)

Mr A: How many cycle more?
Me : 4 as I had defer for my studies. (Thinking its a Singaporean Man’s topic)

Mr A: Any reservist this year? How many times are you called back a year? How long the duration for each call back?

Me : This work year completed, once a year, sometimes 2x, duration depends 1-4weeks.

I have been working for 13yrs and had 3jobs, with the numerous times of interviews each time I progressed to another job, the topic NS encircles only a few questions:

1. Cycles left for reservist.
2. Vocation
3. Rank

This prompted me to have an impression that NS has served much as a liability when applying for jobs. Questions have extended into details of duration. I do expect every company and business to know that we are liable and they are required by law to release us for our duties.

I questioned the very fact on the purpose and intention of these questions. Firstly, the job is not senior management where time away from company would have adverse effect.

This particular incident have said much that the framework will only touch the surface of the problem. The hiring authority lies with the hiring company, in their digression, and in the context of the questions, would I believe that NS liability is not a factor? Fortune 500 company HR have hidden criteria, not to talk about local SME.

- http://www.tremeritus.com/2013/10/04/re-ntuc-director-hears-many-stories-of-hiring-discrimination/

 

[cunnosieur]

Problem is MOM list of unis from Pundeknadu is too long. India has 1000+ unis. Should restrict to top 30.

 

[makapaaa]

60% Dafties: Nebermind lah! As long as my property price is not affected. *hee*hee*

 

[Malays Must Vote PAP!]

Why should this situation even arise in the first place? It is an admission of the PAP's failure to look after the interest of sinkees. And this statement to placate foreigners suggests that the PAP would revert back to its old policy of putting foreigners first after the next election.

You slit-eyed, slant-eyed Chinks are hopeless. The Malays, Indians and other minorities have survived despite facing racism and discrimination from slit-eyed Chinks for decades.

Now that you Chinks are at the receiving end by "foreigners", you beg, threaten and cry for help and intervention??? For the field to be tilted in your favour??? What happened to that sense of racial superiority, resilience, diligence, etc from that superior 5,000 year old culture????

Harden the fuck up Chinks.

 

[scbccb]

Bang next time I go Matland you blanjah me but please balik kampung.

 

[AttilaTheHun]

You slit-eyed, slant-eyed Chinks are hopeless. The Malays, Indians and other minorities have survived despite facing racism and discrimination from slit-eyed Chinks for decades.

Now that you Chinks are at the receiving end by "foreigners", you beg, threaten and cry for help and intervention??? For the field to be tilted in your favour??? What happened to that sense of racial superiority, resilience, diligence, etc from that superior 5,000 year old culture????

Harden the fuck up Chinks.

Abang hari ini awak banyak senang tak payah hantar pizza ?

 

[looneytan]

يرن الغش! حذار!
Go fuck yourself
العودة إلى المكان الذي جئت منه - الصين!!!
Go fuck yourself

 

[Satyr]

You slit-eyed, slant-eyed Chinks are hopeless. The Malays, Indians and other minorities have survived despite facing racism and discrimination from slit-eyed Chinks for decades.

Now that you Chinks are at the receiving end by "foreigners", you beg, threaten and cry for help and intervention??? For the field to be tilted in your favour??? What happened to that sense of racial superiority, resilience, diligence, etc from that superior 5,000 year old culture????

Harden the fuck up Chinks.

I don't condone the racial slurs but I do understand where this guy is coming from. Singaporeans are wimps to go crying to the government when their jobs are threatened by low class graduates of unknown universities from barely third world countries which they used to spit on. This is the same crowd that took delight in running down and excluding or patronizing their own countrymen of darker hue unless of course they had visibly more money or higher grades than them. The word "karma" springs to mind.
Now we can see what you guys are made of. Actually you are made of nothing much. Hollow men. There are a dozen things you can come together and do. But nobody takes the lead. All you can do is cry here. You guys deserve it.

 

[B Man]

I noticed your sentence below..

This one I cannot agree and must say that every person employed plays a vital role.. and a person missing is work unaccomplished whether you are a low level clerk or high level management. There are no "unnecessary" people in a company else you will not be hired.

That being said, NS and its strict regimental nature, is necessity...unfortunately.

I refer to your article “NTUC DIRECTOR HEARS MANY STORIES OF HIRING DISCRIMINATION AGAINST SGS“.

... Firstly, the job is not senior management where time away from company would have adverse effect. ...

- http://www.tremeritus.com/2013/10/04/re-ntuc-director-hears-many-stories-of-hiring-discrimination/

 

[Kopisai]

Good grief, even Yahoo News Singapore is interested in this?
My goodness me, have you all seen this? http://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/what...very-draws-passionate-response-094212412.html Like I said in my previous piece, I have a special relationship with my regular readers - you know who you are, I adore you and am grateful for the fact that we have this special interaction via my blog. But when a story like that goes viral and makes it into the mainstream news, people start talking all kinds of shit about me and Alvin Lim (aka Alvinology) and I'm like - woah. Please don't assume that I automatically agree with everything Alvin Lim says - I do on some points, I don't on others.

Sure I have plenty of respect for him as a blogger- crikey, he has an amazing blog. I know how hard blogging is and respect him as a blogger. Plenty of food porn - I love his restaurant reviews. I did however, have a slight issue with his post because I felt he focused a bit too much on the issue of IPPT rather than looked at the bigger picture. I didn't want to criticize him for that because everyone can choose to look at the NS issue from any angle - be it covering the big picture or focusing on just one aspect of the whole experience.

It's his choice what angle he wishes to take - however, things went somewhat wrong for Alvin Lim when people picked up on just one thing he said in his article: "modern day slavery" and if you're going to make such a strong claim, then surely one would focus on more pertinent issues, such as the disruption to one's working life or the way it makes many employers prefer to employ foreigners instead of local males because of their reservist liabilities. It just seems like an odd choice to focus that much on the issue of IPPT when I thought it would have been a minor inconvenience at best (and I did say in my previous piece that anything that forces older men in their 30s and 40s to keep fit can only be a good thing when we are facing an obesity epidemic.)

This upsets me. Sorry, but I am upset because I felt that I did use the BBC interview to make a valid point about how the system in Singapore discriminates against male Singaporeans "because of the compulsory national service and many years of reservist obligations afterwards." Alvin Lim then drew so much attention to himself over the issue (dragging me into the foray in the process) and he wants to talk about IPPT (a point which him and I clearly disagree on) instead of focusing on the more pertinent issues? And as for the checks of hair length - again, please, let's not get distracted by the minor issues. It seems almost petty to kick up a fuss over these issues.

What did you get out of your NS experience?

I'm afraid Alvin weakens his own argument by focusing on these far more minor points rather than talking about the following issues that have been far more problematic:

1. The length of NS is too long and needs to be shortened.

2. The NSF pay is way too low and desperately needs to be increased.

3. Very few NSF actually take any useful skills away from their NS days - the SAF needs to give them real skills and training that can be used in the working world.

4. The reservist liabilities are highly disruptive to working Singaporean males and puts them at a disadvantage, employers will prefer to employ females or foreigners.

5. New citizens are often exempt from any kind of NS and the consequent reservist liabilities even if they are still fit and in their 20s or 30s when they obtain their Singaporean nationality.

Now those five factors are far more compelling reasons why the issue NS has to be dealt with and addressed - why is Alvin Lim even talking about IPPT and hair cuts?! I am wondering if it was merely a bad editorial decision or if those issues really mean thaaaaat much to him? It's so easy for someone to tell him to pull his socks up and be a man about the issue of IPPT (one of my readers has already done so, as did many of his readers who have left many comments on his blog piece), but which Singaporean would want to disagree on the point about the disadvantages NS imposes on male Singaporeans in the job market, when we're competing with females and foreigners with no reservist liabilities? Let's use arguments that unite people, rather than those that divide people.

Anyway, as much as I love a spike in traffic to my blog, I still feel uncomfortable when I have so many people talking about the stories on social media. I'm quite used to commenting on topical stories, it is easy to talk about someone else, but to have the spotlight turned on me as this story goes viral... By all means, talk about the issue and what I have presented on the topic here on my blog as well as on my BBC interview, but it's when people start saying crap based on stuff that other people have said about me - that's when it gets ludicrous. For example, I never said that NS was "modern day slavery" - those were Alvin Lim's words, not mine; yet some people have asserted that it was me who said that.That's just people who start misquoting and misrepresenting the facts without knowing the whole story and that just pisses me off, big time. Like WTF is wrong with some of these people, for crying out aloud...

Who said what to whom...

Am I trying to distance myself from Alvin Lim's article? Not exactly, I am glad that people like Alvin Lim are getting people talking about the issue and that is a good thing. However, as much as I respect Alvin's right to an opinion, him and I clearly do not agree on some of the issues (particularly that on IPPT - sorry Alvin, but I really disagree with you on that issue) - but that's fine. We can each have our say on the issue, I just hate it when people confuse me with him. Come on people. I'm Alex, he's Alvin, I'm in the UK, he's in Singapore, we're both bloggers - it's not rocket science.

As usual, if you have anything you wish to say on the issue, please leave a comment, thanks for reading.

Yup, that's me... Outside Zouk on my last visit to Singapore in August 2013.