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make no mistake, WP still have lotsa teething problems. STILL NOT UP TO MARK!!

brocoli

Alfrescian
Loyal
all these heckling from just distract from some of the real problems that WP face ...

and WP most incisive critic has been lockeliberal..... he pinpoint the real issue that can bring down WP...

media and PR wise, WP are still out of touch, their default mode is to shut up

Dear Scroobal,

its now clear that there was only a "stonewall" because he did not come clean and beg for mercy and then do a Jack Neo to the public.

Locke

Dear TFBH,

The "WP stonewall " is a page straight from the Low Book of media relations. Even before GE 2011, Low as the sole WP representative had a reputation of being uncontactable for comments when he wanted it so.

When the party was LOW and LOW was the party, it made certain sense. It makes less sense with six opposition MPs and the first Malay Opposition MP for donkey years. Politicians live and die by the media. The relationship between the media and the WP is not a one way street as dictated by the wishes and wants of the WP depending on the occasion and the sooner they wake up to that fact, the better it is for them,

The stonewall exists or is in place for no other reason than to protect Yaw in case someone decides to redeem him at a later stage. Is the WP immune to the normal dictates of the media game ? Can they afford even a 2% drop in support for the party if this issue is not dealt with correctly ?

Locke

Dear Sad

The WP has tried to learn fr the SDP about professionalism in media and website management but has had hits and misses.

Locke

OutReach wise, still old school, it works now but for how long more, do they wan to be a ruling party or just a grassroot party

Dear Scroo,

Honestly it is my belief that there is a strong consensus that if they attend enough temple dinners, sell enough hammers, knock on enough doors etc etc, that these tactics are enough to overcome or limit whatever happens at the strategic or CEC level.

The belief strongly held that door to door vista , dinners, funerals, temple dinners. etc etc can overcome any amount of bad press by a hostile media. That belief is built into its leaders, its candidates and its leaders even when many should know better based on their professional backgrounds.

Locke

how many temple dinners to attend and how hammers to sell to make up for mistakes in parliament.... this is just wasting the volunteers and members times.... the MP need to up their game, period


Party is still not professional or institutionalised

Dear Scroo,

The "LTK" philosophy remains , that " One should have no expectations from the party, One should die for the party , and that any bone or responsibility is a gift and not a right ". In so much as that attitude produces loyalty and discipline it also produces a load of lemmings willing to go over the edge if the wrong advice is given or read by those at the top.

And when the proverbial shit hits the fan, the party reaction as a whole reverts to its tried and tested MO. " Shut Up and Disclose Nothing ". If loyalty is valued above all else then more rocky roads lie ahead. YSL might have been loyal to the party but how far SHOULD the party remain loyal to him ? Should it in any way risk AJ to save him ?

Locke

accountibility yes, but at my own discretion, my way or the highway... liddat, how to connect with core support, online and neutrals

this is probably lockeliberal best post and summarise the problems WP face ....

Dear Char,

The problem is primarily three fold, personal, policy and presentation,

Personel, As the party grows in personalities and personnel, Managing who says what, and how becomes critical, I would put the current speeches as failing because of an inability to tie six separate. Voices around one entral theme.

policy, Seriously screwed up process when Gerald got hammered by TCH. The internal mechanisms are breaking down when coping with larger numbers and voices. As it stands there currently does not seem to be a back stop or back check on what opposition MPs say and how they say it.

personalities. everyone is playing good cop and there is no bad cop, granted the PAP will never ever be nice to you but there is still more room for personalities and presentation to come through


1st of all I think their LAs deserve to be fired , secondly, I dunno if there is some kind of internal policy committee because unlike the GE, there is no overrching theme, every1 just seem to talk what they want...

the part about fine-tuning the sectors based on specific industries for the Foreign Worker Dependency is most glaring, it is clear CSM and LTK were talking for the sake of talking.... they have no idea what they wan to tighten or loosen.... that is why Tharman can rebut them so effectively

2ndly, the problem with CSM is not in asking for more social spending, this is dumb in a budget where social spending was increase and vikram is dumb in whacking him, why didnt he whack denise phua for proposing higher tax ...... the bitch really deserve a slap

The problem with CSM is he didnt identified which area need more spending and how money can be better spent, his LA and him obviously never do his homework


Chen Show Mao said:
We need to invest more in our education in schools, in training our workers for the job so they can do a better job, and in empowering our workers on the job so they can make the job better.

We can also invest more in other aspects of a Singaporean’s life and that of her family — social security, public housing, healthcare, education, and infrastructure and the environment, so that she becomes a more productive worker.

are we not spending enough on education and training, why is he talking for the sake of talking where are the deficient areas???

WP need to move from the duet mode to a choir mode , if they cant even coordinate 6 person... how to form shadow cabinet???


these are the real issue that WP have to grapple with ... not issues on integrity ,,, last world voters as examplified by the forumers here have very low standard, they dun care bout integrity ... dats why GMS can get 40%

GMS himself have no integrity.... he say he dunno about YSL then later say he has been dropping hints all along...

in short WP need to up their game in parliament or they will lose Aljunied...

 

kryonlight

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Excellent analysis!

GMS aside, I see WP becoming a more and more hollow party. They are so eager to stake their claim on Aljunied by changing all the HDB flat signboards to their party colors. They should have done more homework for their parliamentary sessions than be overly concerned about insignificant signboards.

If they don't buck up from now on in parliament, 5 years later those signboards will have to be changed again.

WP is not my party of first choice mainly because they advocate compulsory National Service, but it is the only current tolerable alternative.
 

brocoli

Alfrescian
Loyal
Excellent analysis!

GMS aside, I see WP becoming a more and more hollow party. They are so eager to stake their claim on Aljunied by changing all the HDB flat signboards to their party colors. They should have done more homework for their parliamentary sessions than be overly concerned about insignificant signboards.

If they don't buck up from now on in parliament, 5 years later those signboards will have to be changed again.

WP is not my party of first choice mainly because they advocate compulsory National Service, but it is the only current tolerable alternative.

GMS is at least right that WP supporter dun wan to comment on the flaws of WP ... you can see no1 will comment on hard truth post like this .... but if scoobal do a similar thread on PAP... every1 will suck his dick and blow his balls... and praise him to the skies

thats why i really need a break from this place for the past 2 weeks.....
 

Perspective

Alfrescian
Loyal
GMS is at least right that WP supporter dun wan to comment on the flaws of WP ... you can see no1 will comment on hard truth post like this .... but if scoobal do a similar thread on PAP... every1 will suck his dick and blow his balls... and praise him to the skies

thats why i really need a break from this place for the past 2 weeks.....

I don't think you will ever get that level of PAP-bashing as you would get WP-bashing. Logically, the amount would also corelate in proportion to the
1. POWER
2. SEATS / MANDATE
3. RESPONSIBILITIES / ROLES
4. SALARIES


PAP is obviously ahead of WP in the 4 and WP ahead of the rest. The comments and critiques should ideally be proportion if one were to claim itself to be neutral, non-partisan.

I bold the above because people are not getting it. They think everyone is WP supporter or WP already formed the government or some people trying to prevent them from speaking about WP negatively. In the past, if you start a thread like that or I post such a link, we get bashed.
 
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brocoli

Alfrescian
Loyal
A good critique of WP would be something like this, from Publichouse (new site run by TOC's founder/former chief)

http://publichouse.sg/categories/politics/item/537-how-did-the-workers’-party-do-in-parliament

Andrew is just rating their performance .... just like a newspaper rate players after a soccer match

whereas from Locke posts above, he is commenting on the football club internal match preparation and fittness regime or lack of those....

I think its ok to lose a match, as long as the players put in effort but was overwhelmed... so I am not going to focus on the boohoos that andrew and most peasants focus on... since mistakes do happen....

gotcha politics as practise by TRE and GMS is not the way forward......

but from the looks of it, they are not even properly prepared .... look at the proposed further fine-tuning the dependency ratio ceilings based on specific industries

it was clear they have no idea what they were talking about, that smackdown by tharman was more telling than any boohoo they commit.. it show that they were simply not prepared.....it was a good idea in principle .... but they were so unprepare that tharman have to help them 下台 by saying... "I think you have good intentions"

that is quite sad... I also dun agree with Sylvia saying that we should spent 6.1% of GDP just because others does so....she should mention where we are so lacking compare to other ....

not just try to keep up with jones for the sake of it, doesn she know most of our healthcare is 1 of the more highly regarded by economists ....

those countries that spend tonnes of $ on healthcare... their systems are really broken if you know what I mean....

all in all, I dun expect andrew to comment on policy (formations) since he is obviously not trained in public policy/economics (no profession coaching exp)...

but i expect that level of insight from GMS... sadly no

I don't think you will ever get that level of PAP-bashing as you would get WP-bashing. Logically, the amount would also corelate in proportion to the
1. POWER
2. SEATS / MANDATE
3. RESPONSIBILITIES / ROLES
4. SALARIES


PAP is obviously ahead of WP in the 4 and WP ahead of the rest. The comments and critiques should ideally be proportion if one were to claim itself to be neutral, non-partisan.

I bold the above because people are not getting it. They think everyone is WP supporter or WP already formed the government or some people trying to prevent them from speaking about WP negatively. In the past, if you start a thread like that or I post such a link, we get bashed.

i dun expect the same level of WP-bashing as PAP-bashing.... simply because WP cant screw up as badly since they are not in power....

i am not expecting them to oppose the govt at every turn though that will be nice... I do expect them to be on the same level as shadow cabinet ministers in other countries...
so far only JJ has been up to mark...... many times they feel its beneath them to rebut the PAP siau kaus....

this is not goot enough, they have to rebut some of the times or they look weak... WP has been on the defensive for this year sitting so far, this is ridiculous... its as if PAP is the opposition to WP rather than the other way around

there really not much neutral, non-partisan voices in this god forsaken forum, the quality of debate here leave much to be desire....
 
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Annoyed

Alfrescian
Loyal
Haven't posted for some time now, so here goes.

The lack of analysis here is, indeed, telling (as is the general lack of ability to construct simple sentences in English).

Do you even know how shadow ministers work?


I do expect them to be on the same level as shadow cabinet ministers in other countries...
 

brocoli

Alfrescian
Loyal
Haven't posted for some time now, so here goes.

The lack of analysis here is, indeed, telling (as is the general lack of ability to construct simple sentences in English).

Do you even know how shadow ministers work?

do you have a pt or you just wan to fart?
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
Luckily you are not me. :wink:

I really don't know about Yaw-gate when you asked me. I only know when someone from WP just gossip information into my ears but that is only from third party sources which cannot be verified. Unless I know for certain, I will tell you but no, it is a serious thing at that moment and I don't know anything about him. It was after that, information starts flowing in.

Goh Meng Seng



GMS himself have no integrity.... he say he dunno about YSL then later say he has been dropping hints all along...

in short WP need to up their game in parliament or they will lose Aljunied...

[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]
 

Tualan

Alfrescian
Loyal
Luckily you are not me. :wink:

I really don't know about Yaw-gate when you asked me. I only know when someone from WP just gossip information into my ears but that is only from third party sources which cannot be verified. Unless I know for certain, I will tell you but no, it is a serious thing at that moment and I don't know anything about him. It was after that, information starts flowing in.

Goh Meng Seng

If you are so good as what you think ,why can't you win a election ? Talk so big for what ?
 

Varuna

Alfrescian
Loyal
I am still waiting for an UP TO MARK perfect party with no teething porbem to surface. :smile:
 
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Ramseth

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
media and PR wise, WP are still out of touch, their default mode is to shut up

Out of touch? Shutting up has enabled LTK to take Hougang SMC in 1991 and Aljunied GRC in 2011. Even SDP nowadays with their new recruits have learned the lesson at least by half now. The ends to politics is not making noise, it's winning seats. Everybody wants to live a peaceful life, not with political noise pollution every day. The place to speak up is in Parliament. Win a seat and more seats, then say.
 
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cleareyes

Alfrescian
Loyal
in short WP need to up their game in parliament or they will lose Aljunied...

Here is a question of logic: Who vote the WP team in for aljunied? the whole of Singapore, the residence of Aljlunied GRC or you?

You can put up the best talkshow in parliment, in front of the TV or on any media stage all you want. But if you do not do your groundwork and grassroots, you will not find the same level of support as of before ( aka SDP in Bukit Gombak)
 

zhihau

Super Moderator
SuperMod
Asset
Here is a question of logic: Who vote the WP team in for aljunied? the whole of Singapore, the residence of Aljlunied GRC or you?

heheh... having helped send 5 WP MPs into Parliament, me will continue to help send more opposition MPs in until the equilibrium is achieved :smile::smile::smile:
 

callmebad

Alfrescian
Loyal
WP has come a long way since the days of Jeyaratnam
can't blame them for stonewalling the media because they're all pro-PAP
if you're not good at talking, can be misinterpret or being quote out of context
they have no one like Nicole Seah
 

cleareyes

Alfrescian
Loyal
WP has come a long way since the days of Jeyaratnam
can't blame them for stonewalling the media because they're all pro-PAP
if you're not good at talking, can be misinterpret or being quote out of context
they have no one like Nicole Seah

huh?

and how do you know that?
 

kryonlight

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Wow, I got zapped 1 point for criticizing the WP, and was scolded "cheebye".

Is this the quality of a WP supporter?
 
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