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Is Wikileaks revealing the truth or pushing for WW III

drifter

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Generous Asset
On August 6, 1945, a uranium bomb 3-235, 20 kilotons yield, was exploded 1850 feet in the air above Hiroshima, for maximum explosive effect. It devastated four square miles, and killed 140,000 of the 255,000 inhabitants. In Hiroshima's Shadows, we find a statement by a doctor who treated some of the victims; p.415, Dr. Shuntaro Hida: "It was strange to us that Hiroshima had never been bombed, despite the fact that B-29 bombers flew over the city every day. Only after the war did I come to know that Hiroshima, according to American archives, had been kept untouched in order to preserve it as a target for the use of nuclear weapons. Perhaps, if the American administration and its military authorities had paid sufficient regard to the terrible nature of the fiery demon which mankind had discovered and yet knew so little about its consequences, the American authorities might never have used such a weapon against the 750,000 Japanese who ultimately became its victims."
 

drifter

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Generous Asset
Closely linked to the question of whether a warning of an atomic bomb attack was given to the civilian populations of the target cities is the third 'article of fifth' that underpins the American legend of Hiroshima; the belief that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military targets. The Headquarters of the Japanese Second army were located in Hiroshima and approximately 20,000 men—of which about half, or 10,000 died in the attack. In Nagasaki, there were about 150 deaths among military personnel in the city. Thus, between the two cities, 4.4% of the total death toll was made up of military personnel. In short, more than 95% of the casualties were civilians."
 

Ramseth

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Asset
Drifter, you're not completely Japonised yet.

The Japanese in victory will tell you whatever humanity, up to them, they won.

The Japanese in defeat will tell you whatever humanity, up to you, you won.
 

drifter

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Generous Asset
A PILOT'S STORY

Corroboration of these statements is found in the remarkable record of Ellsworth Torrey Carrington, "Reflections of a Hiroshima Pilot", (p.9) "As part of the Hiroshima atomic battle plan my B-29 (named Jabbitt III, Captain John Abbott Wilson's third war plane) flew the weather observation mission over the secondary target of Kokura on August 6, 1945." AFTER THE FIRST BOMB WAS DROPPED , THE ATOM BOMB COMMAND WAS VERY FEARFUL THAT JAPAN MIGHT SURRENDER BEFORE WE DROP THE SECOND BOMB , SO OUR PEOPLE WORKED AROUND THE CLOCK ,24-HOURS A DAY TO AVOID SUCH A MISFORTUNE " . This is, of course, satire on Carrington's part. (p. 13) "in city after city all over the face of Japan (except for our cities spared because reserved for atomic holocaust) they ignited the most terrible firestorms in history with very light losses (of B-29s). Sometimes the heat from these firestorms was so intense that later waves of B-29s were caught by updrafts strong enough to loft them upwards from 4 or 5,000 feet all the way up to 8 or 10,000 feet. The major told us that the fire-bombing of Japan had proven successful far beyond anything they had imagined possible and that the 20th Air Force was running out of cities to burn. Already there were no longer (as of the first week in June 1945) any target cities left that were worth the attention of more than 50 B-29s, and on a big day, we could send up as many as 450 planes!" "The totality of the devastation in Japan was extraordinary, and this was matched by the near-totality of Japan's defencelessness." (as of June 1, 1945, before the atomic bombs were dropped.) (p. 14) " THE TRUMAN GOVERMENT CENSORED AND CONTROLLED ALL THE WAR INFORMATION THAT WAS ALLOWED TO REACH THE PUBLIC , AND OF COURSE , TRUMAN HAD VESTED INTEREST IN OBSCURING TRUTH SO AS TO SURREPTITIOUSLY PROLONG THE WAR AND BE POLITICALLY ABLE TO USE THE ATOM BOMB .. Regarding the second element of the Roosevelt-Truman atomic Cold War strategy of deceiving the public into believing that Japan was still militarily viable in the spring and summer of 1945, the centerpiece was the terribly expensive and criminally unnecessary campaign against Okinawa.
 

drifter

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Generous Asset
Drifter, you're not completely Japonised yet.

The Japanese in victory will tell you whatever humanity, up to them, they won.

The Japanese in defeat will tell you whatever humanity, up to you, you won.

here , we are not talking about who win the war .we are talking " IS ATOMIC BOMB NECESSARY USED IN JAPANESE SOIL " ? .
 
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drifter

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Generous Asset
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Ramseth

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here , we are not talking about who win the war .we are talking about IS ATOMIC BOMB NECESSARY USED IN JAPANESE SOIL ? .

You still don't get it. The Japanese accepted that the winners decide whether it's necessary or not.
 

drifter

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Generous Asset
You still don't get it. The Japanese accepted that the winners decide whether it's necessary or not.

not really ...alot of my older japanese friends still think it is not right to use nuke ..of course those younger japanese dont care ...cause they love america culture ...:wink:
 

Ramseth

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not really ...alot of my older japanese friends still think it is not right to use nuke ..of course those younger japanese dont care ...cause they love america culture ...:wink:

If you want my personal opinion, I'd say it's unnecessary too. Japan was as done over with as Germany, just a few months more to deal with. However, a D-Day landing would be very much more expensive than two newly minted nukes. At war, there's no reason to waste money and resourses to save enemy lives, even if civilians. That's one thing. Another thing is to shock the Soviet Union into backing off too, that's strategic, since they were trying to take advantage of the Japanese collapse in Manchuria.
 

drifter

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Generous Asset
If you want my personal opinion, I'd say it's unnecessary too. Japan was as done over with as Germany, just a few months more to deal with. However, a D-Day landing would be very much more expensive than two newly minted nukes. At war, there's no reason to waste money and resourses to save enemy lives, even if civilians. That's one thing. Another thing is to shock the Soviet Union into backing off too, that's strategic, since they were trying to take advantage of the Japanese collapse in Manchuria.

you are smart , If the atomic bomb contributed at all to Japan's unconditional surrender in the second world war, it contributed little. The decisive factor was the Soviet drive against Japan's Kwangtung army back from the Manchurian borders.

The atomic bombs were a warning not only to the Soviet Union but also to the Communist-led forces in China whose resistance to Japan's occupation had been growing from strength to strength. The bombings unleashed US expansionism in the east, claiming not only Japan but also China under Chiang Kai-shek for their sphere of influence. In the latter case, with the eventual success of the Communist party of China, the "deterrent" effect of nuclear weapons proved less than successful. :wink:
 

drifter

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Generous Asset
Of course it was a war crime; Harry Truman was the war criminal. Truman would not accept anything less than an unconditional surrender from the Japanese, despite the fact that Japan was frantically making attempts to end the war in any way possible, short of an unconditional surrender. The Japanese were only concerned in maintaining the status of the Emperor. Despite numerous peace proposals, Truman was convinced that only an unconditional surrender would be sufficient.

The man who basically thought up the entire idea for an atomic bomb, Leó Szilárd, begged Truman's point man on nuclear matters, James Byrnes, to demonstrate the bomb's power on an empty target before turning it on civilians. Byrnes in a nutshell replied that all the money spent on creating the bomb could not be justified if it was not unleashed on Japanese cities. Truman gave the order that nuclear weapons should be used against Japan. Truman's decision clearly stemmed from hatred and bigotry of the Japanese people. Take a look at an excerpt from Truman's diary, dated July 25:

"We have discovered the most terrible bomb in the history of the world. It may be the fire destruction prophesied in the Euphrates Valley Era, after Noah and his fabulous Ark.

Anyway we "think" we have found the way to cause a disintegration of the atom. An experiment in the New Mexico desert was startling - to put it mildly. Thirteen pounds of the explosive caused the complete disintegration of a steel tower 60 feet high, created a crater 6 feet deep and 1,200 feet in diameter, knocked over a steel tower 1/2 mile away and knocked men down 10,000 yards away. The explosion was visible for more than 200 miles and audible for 40 miles and more.

so that military objectives and soldiers and sailors are the target and not women and children. Even if the Japs are savages, ruthless, merciless and fanatic, we as the leader of the world for the common welfare cannot drop that terrible bomb on the old capital or the new.

He and I are in accord. The target will be a purely military one and we will issue a warning statement asking the Japs to surrender and save lives. I'm sure they will not do that, but we will have given them the chance. It is certainly a good thing for the world that Hitler's crowd or Stalin's did not discover this atomic bomb. It seems to be the most terrible thing ever discovered, but it can be made the most useful..."

The "warning statement" was basically the routine "surrender or be utterly destroyed." The bombs at Nagasaki and Hiroshima killed at least 140,000 people and injured over 100,000 people, not to mention the fact that tens of thousands more would die from injuries and radiation poisoning within two years.

On August 9, Truman delivered a speech to the American people about the use of the atomic bomb:

"The world will note that the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, a military base. That was because we wished in this first attack to avoid, insofar as possible, the killing of civilians. But that attack is only a warning of things to come. If Japan does not surrender, bombs will have to be dropped on her war industries and, unfortunately, thousands of civilian lives will be lost. I urge Japanese civilians to leave industrial cities immediately, and save themselves from destruction."

It is rather hard to believe that Truman actually thought that Hiroshima was a military base, considering that 90% of the people killed were civilians.
 
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Ramseth

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
By the early 50s, Russia, Britain and France all figured out how to make nukes. US and Britain even trade nuke weaponry and systems legally under "special relationship." No longer a US monopoly, just a means and measure of balance of power in the cold war. 1964 was the landmark year when China detonated its first nuke. Enter the dragon.
 

Sideswipe

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Asset
If the atomic bomb contributed at all to Japan's unconditional surrender in the second world war, it contributed little. The decisive factor was the Soviet drive against Japan's Kwangtung army back from the Manchurian borders.


Soviet was an unneeded Ally in the Pacific War. By late 1944, What was left of the Kwantung Army in Manchuria was largely composed of raw conscripts and second rate troops with virtually no Air Support and few Tanks. Kwantung Army was bled dry to provide reinforcements for other fronts and was heavily depleted. Those Troops cannot be bought back to Japan because of lack of Shipping. Soviet Army provided an easy and decisive victory over Kwantung Army in August 1945.

It was the diplomatic failure of American Officials partly due to Russian Sabotage to negotiate a conditional or non conditional Surrender Agreement with Japan from the time Yalta to Potsdam when Japan was showing willingness to lay down arms and talk.
 

Coolsaint77

Alfrescian
Loyal
Demonstration of raw power for ALL to see.

The Americans have been consistent in their military behavior since the 2nd world war... the SHOCK AND AWE technique

The atomic bombs clearly had a "bigger" purpose than making Japan end the war. In early 1945 Japan were already crippled hence with or without the 2 atomic bombs the war was going to end. If you are fighting America in a war you would bomb Washington or New York, you wouldn't choose Atlanta or Oklahoma City.

It is difficult for people to see the political manipulation by the US because the Americans dominate the international media.

Now it seems only the Americans have the right to develop WMD whereas every other nations in possession of such technology is considered a threat. Big Brother wants to rule the world. Is it better to let them be? Or should all nations start to pursue nuclear proliferation to "contain" the US?
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
I mean nuclear dragon. :biggrin:

It was a defining and decisive moment in the cold war era.

Anyway, now about ten countries have it already.

Singapore should try to make or buy some. :eek:

Singapore should not try to make or even hold 1. Just 1 single mistake, we are all gone. Probably left only pasir ris or woodlands at the edges:(
 
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