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Is this the right time to invest in properties?

Cestbon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I've some cash on hand and a fairly stable job. My friends said properties, especially those who are going to TOP soon, will be very cheap as many buyers will need to sell them before full payment.

Is this true? :confused:

Really good time to invest?

waterplace_1.jpg

Wait till end off 2009 or mid 2010. Will start to down when more jobs loses and those cannot afford for month installment/payment.
Normally bank will only start to repose house that have delay payment for more than 6 month. So most will be retrench in next 3 month so effect will only kick in earliest end 2009. And still many property under construction and only completed in 2010. That is when the best time to buy.
:biggrin:

Ha ha ha............ One person poison is another one person meat.
 

yellow_people

Alfrescian
Loyal
Sinkieland property is controlled by your sinkie govt.

Simply put Singapore is under the absolute control of LKY and family just as N Korea is owned by the Eternal President of the Republic, Kim ll Sung and his Orwellian sounding Supreme People's Assembly. Would a sane person invest in a property in N Korea ???
 

tonychat

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
OMG! A simple question of whether 'can buy or not' and you come around to put up such a long posting which I and most of the folks here can't even be bothered to read.

Oh bro, there are ones who try to use words to confuse you as that will make them look more intelligent. Just only Look more intelligent.

So it will be a win win situation, make you confuse so you blur and then still be able to pass off as an elite.

In Sinkieland, the prices are more or less controlled by the sinkie Lord using their developer companies. It is not a real free market where one follow the real market pricing.

Corruption and lies at its core. It is the citizen who suffer the most.

It only comes to the question is you buy for what. Buy for capital gain will be very risky as the real estate market is controlled by the sinkie lord, it is not a real market but depend on the greed and mood of the lord.

If you buy for your family to have a life, then prepare to service it till you are old so they make use of you to use that as a tool to make you work till old just to service it. That is their way to run the country.
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
You mean i have to reveal my portfolio to you? Where did that come from?

Oh bro, there are ones who try to use words to confuse you as that will make them look more intelligent. Just only Look more intelligent.

So it will be a win win situation, make you confuse so you blur and then still be able to pass off as an elite.

In Sinkieland, the prices are more or less controlled by the sinkie Lord using their developer companies. It is not a real free market where one follow the real market pricing.

Corruption and lies at its core. It is the citizen who suffer the most.

It only comes to the question is you buy for what. Buy for capital gain will be very risky as the real estate market is controlled by the sinkie lord, it is not a real market but depend on the greed and mood of the lord.

If you buy for your family to have a life, then prepare to service it till you are old so they make use of you to use that as a tool to make you work till old just to service it. That is their way to run the country.

If you have any credible views on how the property market moves, people would gladly welcome rather than just piecing this is sinkie, that is sinkie. A proper discussion thread being peppered with your sinkie views here and there. If you have any grievances against the govt, please start your own threads and not just go every thread to pepper your thoughts on your anti-govt sentiments.:rolleyes:

So far in this thread, the only thing you mentioned is sinkie, nothing in relation to how the market is going to move according with property investment.
 

tonychat

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Whether people will be gladly welcome my view is up to them and not for you to say.

If you do not like what you read, then dun read it. Simple as that. Ignore button is easy to locate in this forum.
 

tonychat

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Wait till end off 2009 or mid 2010. Will start to down when more jobs loses and those cannot afford for month installment/payment.
Normally bank will only start to repose house that have delay payment for more than 6 month. So most will be retrench in next 3 month so effect will only kick in earliest end 2009. And still many property under construction and only completed in 2010. That is when the best time to buy.
:biggrin:

Ha ha ha............ One person poison is another one person meat.

Based on the supply and demand concept, provided it is a free market, that might be true.

But if you have a lord to meddle the affairs of the free market, the rise of prices, will be much more than the free market allows when they "feel" that people are starting to buy.

If the Lord wanna buy, the price will be low for them to purchase and those lucky ones who buy at that time will be lucky ( especially those who has connections to the lord).

After the lord has done his purchase, just nice, the price will go up really fast.
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
Wait till end off 2009 or mid 2010. Will start to down when more jobs loses and those cannot afford for month installment/payment.
Normally bank will only start to repose house that have delay payment for more than 6 month. So most will be retrench in next 3 month so effect will only kick in earliest end 2009. And still many property under construction and only completed in 2010. That is when the best time to buy.
:biggrin:

Ha ha ha............ One person poison is another one person meat.

Retrenchment is a factor but not the major one. The major factor now is the banking industry are not going to approve many of these people's loans or even if they are going to approve, they are not going to loan much.

As in most scenarios, when the Banks starts to go easy on their applications for loans, the property market will spike up. By then, it will be "too late" for people to enter. Whereby entering at this period wouldn't be getting the best buys. It's a cycle. When the Banks encourage lending, that is the fall sign.

Buying property at cheap buys is about taking advantage of people's situations. If the banks start to repossess the house, the common public wouldn't get the advantage as the insiders will be the ones to get it first.

That is why investing in property is not for everyone or anyone. Must have the holding power without the need for much bank loans.
 

czj11

New Member
I've some cash on hand and a fairly stable job. My friends said properties, especially those who are going to TOP soon, will be very cheap as many buyers will need to sell them before full payment.

Is this true? :confused:

Really good time to invest?

waterplace_1.jpg

No, hold your fire. Prices are going to continue to fall over the next few quarters as the recession deepens.

In addition, as more properties TOP, as more foreigners get retrenched and leave Singapore, this will increase the supply of rental properties and decrease the demand. Rental rates are going to plunge further from the current levels. Lower rentals = lower asking prices.

I think that 2H09 would be a better time - but you should start scouting around for suitable properties now. Just to get a feel of what areas you like, etc.
 

peterlth

Alfrescian
Loyal
Thanks Bro for the sharing. Very good comments.

Bro,

if you have cash on hand to spare, now is a good opportunity to take note of the property you are going to buy. However, if you are not experienced, you need a good conveyancing lawyer to help you manage your S&P which is (Sales and Purchase).
Remember do not depend on the housing agent to know this, because a lot of housing agents are ignorant about this. When things happened, we don't say it's agent fault this and that, because we must take care of our own interests and not depend for people to take care for us.

During the 2007 period, a lot of developments were launched. Example a developer could have launched a 3 bedroom unit at 1.5million. Then a lot of people were buying with deferred payment. However with deferred payment, these buyers still have to fork out an initial payment of 10% or 15% or even 20%.

Now 2009, the very same property that the buyer has bought, he decides to go for loan.
Let's say then he paid up $225K which is 15%.
Now upon TOP, he need to pay up 65% or 70% and then the rest upon collection of keys.
65% of 1.5million = $975K

He needs to get financing from the bank. Bank gives him a valuation of 1.2million (very normal or even less)
With this valuation, bank loans him 70% which amounts to $840K. So now this fella has to fork out extra $135K for the 65% payment which on top of his $225K which he paid up before.

I can tell you a lot of people will not be able to get so much cash as there is still that final payment of 20% to think about.

What he can do now is to sell off as to not incur loss on top of losses and further losses of interests on his bank loan. That means his initial 15% of $225K is already in the drain.

If you buy the property from him at 1.2million, you might not even need to put a deposit of 1% because his is a negative sale. By giving him a 1% deposit, when he is in a negative sale position, there will be a lot of complications relating from the sale. That is why a proper S&P document instead of the standard OTP has to be drafted by the conveyancing lawyer to proceed the deal without complications.

Remember, if the property you are buying is a negative sale, take note, you are in a good position whereby he has absorbed the full impact of the reduce in valuation, and you are in a better position as you are putting in 0 dollar down for your property.

But not all situations are like this. A lot of buyers, agents, sellers are ignorant of this and may demand a 1% option money, but this may not be necessary. So the 1st owner not only forfeits his initial 15% and with the sale of the house, he may have to top up the deficit.

I am not sure whether they can use CPF to top up deficit, but in a no way to run situation, the chances of them letting go at 1.2mill is very high as they want to cut their loss rather than hold on and lose more facing bankruptcy.

So who say property market cannot play. It just depend on how you play it. Everyone say price soft, this and that, but they don't know how the fundamentals really work. For those who buy, working thru the loops with lawyer support, its a good opportunity.

Good time everyone play property market, bad times also can play. When no one dare to play, then that's a good time to do what others do not dare.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
In view of the complexity, you might want to add the following

1) Get the conveyancing lawyer to confirm the worst case exposure in terms of liability for deferred payment property purchase.

2) Not to buy in large developments because price tends to cascade down when they begin unloading as the trend becomes obvious and firms up - identical properties are a bitch in bad times.

3) Don't not mean that the price will remain in the 1.2M zone in the near future. It will certainly not go up.


Bro,

if you have cash on hand to spare, now is a good opportunity to take note of the property you are going to buy. However, if you are not experienced, you need a good conveyancing lawyer to help you manage your S&P which is (Sales and Purchase).
Remember do not depend on the housing agent to know this, because a lot of housing agents are ignorant about this. When things happened, we don't say it's agent fault this and that, because we must take care of our own interests and not depend for people to take care for us.

During the 2007 period, a lot of developments were launched. Example a developer could have launched a 3 bedroom unit at 1.5million. Then a lot of people were buying with deferred payment. However with deferred payment, these buyers still have to fork out an initial payment of 10% or 15% or even 20%.

Now 2009, the very same property that the buyer has bought, he decides to go for loan.
Let's say then he paid up $225K which is 15%.
Now upon TOP, he need to pay up 65% or 70% and then the rest upon collection of keys.
65% of 1.5million = $975K

He needs to get financing from the bank. Bank gives him a valuation of 1.2million (very normal or even less)
With this valuation, bank loans him 70% which amounts to $840K. So now this fella has to fork out extra $135K for the 65% payment which on top of his $225K which he paid up before.

I can tell you a lot of people will not be able to get so much cash as there is still that final payment of 20% to think about.

What he can do now is to sell off as to not incur loss on top of losses and further losses of interests on his bank loan. That means his initial 15% of $225K is already in the drain.

If you buy the property from him at 1.2million, you might not even need to put a deposit of 1% because his is a negative sale. By giving him a 1% deposit, when he is in a negative sale position, there will be a lot of complications relating from the sale. That is why a proper S&P document instead of the standard OTP has to be drafted by the conveyancing lawyer to proceed the deal without complications.

Remember, if the property you are buying is a negative sale, take note, you are in a good position whereby he has absorbed the full impact of the reduce in valuation, and you are in a better position as you are putting in 0 dollar down for your property.

But not all situations are like this. A lot of buyers, agents, sellers are ignorant of this and may demand a 1% option money, but this may not be necessary. So the 1st owner not only forfeits his initial 15% and with the sale of the house, he may have to top up the deficit.

I am not sure whether they can use CPF to top up deficit, but in a no way to run situation, the chances of them letting go at 1.2mill is very high as they want to cut their loss rather than hold on and lose more facing bankruptcy.

So who say property market cannot play. It just depend on how you play it. Everyone say price soft, this and that, but they don't know how the fundamentals really work. For those who buy, working thru the loops with lawyer support, its a good opportunity.

Good time everyone play property market, bad times also can play. When no one dare to play, then that's a good time to do what others do not dare.
 

hockbeng

Alfrescian
Loyal
Top News // Thursday, January 15, 2009

Buyers, sellers at impasse
Owners still asking for sky-high prices while bank valuations fall


Loh Chee Kong


[email protected]


A DOWNTURN is usually the time for bargain-hunters to snap up properties on the cheap. But for now at least, the reality could not be more different, as prospective buyers discover.
.
Said Ms K Chan, a HDB dweller looking to upgrade to a condo: “I thought this would be a good time to pick up a good bargain. But owners are still asking for sky-high prices.”
.
According to industry players, the volume of transactions in the last month or so has dropped to a level only witnessed during the Sars outbreak when the market was practically frozen.
.
The reason? A growing gap between falling bank valuations — which determine how large a bank loan buyers can take — and high asking prices by highly-geared sellers needing to pay off their outstanding loans.
.
A random check by Today on 15 homes for sale — condos and various landed property types spread across the island — found stark differences between what owners are asking for and preliminary valuations by independent professionals.
.
While it is normal for initial asking prices to be higher than the conservative value banks attach to a property, in six cases that Today found, the valuations were less than two-thirds of the asking price.
.
For instance, while an owner of a four-storey bungalow in Holland Grove Drive was asking for $ 7.2 million, his property was valued at just $3.3m. Likewise, a Caribbean at Keppel Bay unit valued at about $700,000 was being touted for sale for $1.1m.
.
.
SUBHD: ‘Better for sellers to cut losses now’ .
Property agent Michael Leong lamented: “It’s very difficult to negotiate deals these days. Both sellers and buyers would hesitate for really long and in the end, they still cannot agree on the price.”
.
Chesterton Suntec International director Colin Tan said the property bull-run of yesteryear – which pushed prices to record levels – has resulted in once-overly-bullish investors held hostage by the large loans they undertook.
.
HSR Property Group executive director Eric Cheng thinks this is especially so in the luxury segment, where “people are more likely to be highly geared and own more than one property”.
.
For sellers unwilling to budge on their asking price, the latest Citigroup report on the property market makes for grim reading.
.
The bank forecasts mid-tier to high-end residential property prices here to fall another 35 per cent, bringing “prices back to 1998 levels”. For prices of luxury properties such as Ardmore Park, the fall would be even steeper – up to 60 per cent from their peaks two years ago, Citi estimates.
.
Noting the current general scarcity of cash, Mr Tan said: “For sellers, maybe it’s better for them to cut losses now, rather than take a bigger loss later on. But sometimes you have geared up so much, the situation is out of your hands – you are stuck.”
.
.
SUBHD: ‘Buyers can wait’
.
Before buying a property, buyers can request from banks a preliminary valuation – determined by an independent professional – which estimates a property’s open market value.
.
Such a valuation takes into account, among other factors, recent transactions and property launches in the vicinity. The banks would then carry out a final valuation onsite before granting a loan, capped at 90 per cent of the purchase price or valuation, whichever is lower.
.
According to Mr Cheng, the final valuations usually do not veer much from the preliminary ones. In rare cases, banks may increase their valuation – by up to 20 per cent – to match the asking price, provided they are convinced of the buyers’ ability to finance the loan, he said.
.
Still, the lack of activity in the property market, to some extent, means valuers are groping in the dark when setting the property value. “A lot of it is based on gut-feel,” said Mr Cheng.
.
But Mr Dennis Ng, spokesman for mortgage consultancy portal www.housingloansg.com, believes that valuations accurately reflect current dire sentiments. He predicts the impasse will be broken in the second half of the year – when it becomes a buyers’ market. “Ultimately one party will give way,” said Mr Ng.
.
For now, Chesterton Suntec International’s Mr Tan has this advice for prospective buyers: “You can afford to wait. Only go (into a transaction) when it is a property you really like and it is within your affordability.”
Owners still asking for sky-high prices while bank valuations fall


Loh Chee Kong


[email protected]


A DOWNTURN is usually the time for bargain-hunters to snap up properties on the cheap. But for now at least, the reality could not be more different, as prospective buyers discover.
.
Said Ms K Chan, a HDB dweller looking to upgrade to a condo: “I thought this would be a good time to pick up a good bargain. But owners are still asking for sky-high prices.”
.
According to industry players, the volume of transactions in the last month or so has dropped to a level only witnessed during the Sars outbreak when the market was practically frozen.
.
The reason? A growing gap between falling bank valuations — which determine how large a bank loan buyers can take — and high asking prices by highly-geared sellers needing to pay off their outstanding loans.
.
A random check by Today on 15 homes for sale — condos and various landed property types spread across the island — found stark differences between what owners are asking for and preliminary valuations by independent professionals.
.
While it is normal for initial asking prices to be higher than the conservative value banks attach to a property, in six cases that Today found, the valuations were less than two-thirds of the asking price.
.
For instance, while an owner of a four-storey bungalow in Holland Grove Drive was asking for $ 7.2 million, his property was valued at just $3.3m. Likewise, a Caribbean at Keppel Bay unit valued at about $700,000 was being touted for sale for $1.1m.
.
.
SUBHD: ‘Better for sellers to cut losses now’
.
Property agent Michael Leong lamented: “It’s very difficult to negotiate deals these days. Both sellers and buyers would hesitate for really long and in the end, they still cannot agree on the price.”
.
Chesterton Suntec International director Colin Tan said the property bull-run of yesteryear – which pushed prices to record levels – has resulted in once-overly-bullish investors held hostage by the large loans they undertook.
.
HSR Property Group executive director Eric Cheng thinks this is especially so in the luxury segment, where “people are more likely to be highly geared and own more than one property”.
.
For sellers unwilling to budge on their asking price, the latest Citigroup report on the property market makes for grim reading.
.
The bank forecasts mid-tier to high-end residential property prices here to fall another 35 per cent, bringing “prices back to 1998 levels”. For prices of luxury properties such as Ardmore Park, the fall would be even steeper – up to 60 per cent from their peaks two years ago, Citi estimates.
.
Noting the current general scarcity of cash, Mr Tan said: “For sellers, maybe it’s better for them to cut losses now, rather than take a bigger loss later on. But sometimes you have geared up so much, the situation is out of your hands – you are stuck.”
.
.
SUBHD: ‘Buyers can wait’
.
Before buying a property, buyers can request from banks a preliminary valuation – determined by an independent professional – which estimates a property’s open market value.
.
Such a valuation takes into account, among other factors, recent transactions and property launches in the vicinity. The banks would then carry out a final valuation onsite before granting a loan, capped at 90 per cent of the purchase price or valuation, whichever is lower.
.
According to Mr Cheng, the final valuations usually do not veer much from the preliminary ones. In rare cases, banks may increase their valuation – by up to 20 per cent – to match the asking price, provided they are convinced of the buyers’ ability to finance the loan, he said.
.
Still, the lack of activity in the property market, to some extent, means valuers are groping in the dark when setting the property value. “A lot of it is based on gut-feel,” said Mr Cheng.
.
But Mr Dennis Ng, spokesman for mortgage consultancy portal www.housingloansg.com, believes that valuations accurately reflect current dire sentiments. He predicts the impasse will be broken in the second half of the year – when it becomes a buyers’ market. “Ultimately one party will give way,” said Mr Ng.
.
For now, Chesterton Suntec International’s Mr Tan has this advice for prospective buyers: “You can afford to wait. Only go (into a transaction) when it is a property you really like and it is within your affordability.” Owners still asking for sky-high prices while bank valuations fall

.”
 

tonychat

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Valuation is done by your sinkie Lord Lee. GDP is the first pirority, it is a way to show the world how "successful" sinkieland is.
 

Conan the Barbarian

Alfrescian
Loyal
I've some cash on hand and a fairly stable job. My friends said properties, especially those who are going to TOP soon, will be very cheap as many buyers will need to sell them before full payment.

Is this true? :confused:

Really good time to invest?

waterplace_1.jpg

In short, can buy. But you will have to wait till prices fall nearer to 1st quarter 2007 first before jumping in.
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
In view of the complexity, you might want to add the following

1) Get the conveyancing lawyer to confirm the worst case exposure in terms of liability for deferred payment property purchase.

2) Not to buy in large developments because price tends to cascade down when they begin unloading as the trend becomes obvious and firms up - identical properties are a bitch in bad times.

3) Don't not mean that the price will remain in the 1.2M zone in the near future. It will certainly not go up.

1) In a negative sale, it is very important to note that the buyer may not even need to pay the 1% option money or the next 4% to exercise the option because the seller still needs to pay off extra cash to the developer of his unit. By paying the seller this amount, there is a tendency he may be on the process of bankruptcy and the option money given to him may not be recovered and the completion of the unit may be in jeopardy. That is why caveat emptor(buyer beware)
The conveyancing lawyer would have to draft out a new S&P(sales&purchase) where the completion can proceed while the 1st buyer takes out the liability of the loss.

DO not use the standard Option To Purchase by the agent or the seller.
In anyway, a conveyancing lawyer is needed and his services would range around $3000 or slightly more.

2) Normally my group buys different properties with views and spruce up the unit for rental. To make more will be landed properties where we redevelop and sell. The landed market would take a while for the beating to come after the apt drop because the market segment catered is very different.

3) Valuation is dependent on the recent caveats and transactions lodged at the houses nearby. That is why when prices drops, valuations drop. Only when the banks want to lend money, that is the time valuations will go up.
 

Hope

Alfrescian
Loyal
I've some cash on hand and a fairly stable job. My friends said properties, especially those who are going to TOP soon, will be very cheap as many buyers will need to sell them before full payment.

Is this true? :confused:

Really good time to invest?

waterplace_1.jpg
My humble opinion,if you have the cash,why not,jump in immediately,you cant lose.It is how much you win,in the long run of course.
 

Conan the Barbarian

Alfrescian
Loyal
My humble opinion,if you have the cash,why not,jump in immediately,you cant lose.It is how much you win,in the long run of course.

The savings by buying later amounts out to lots of cash, which can be use to buy a second one.

Right now, prices are not dropping much yet. 30% of 1 million is $300K.
Thats a big buffer if the downturn is a long one.
 

VeryWise

Alfrescian
Loyal
There are a lot of very wise advices given by the ppl here. In my own simple words, for most ordinary folks, like myself, property is not for speculation. Of course there are many ppl got it rich by buying and selling properties as a form of gamble or "careful analysis" of the market. But I am sure there are equal number of ppl who got into shit too. They key here I guess, is that you should treat property as a form of capital preservation. However, it will depend on where on the price curve you got your property, definitely not when it's red hot. Any point along the curve other than the max, you should be safe if you have the means to service the loan in the long run. But if you ask me where is the max, really, it's any body guess. At this moment, I can only tell you that it's downward trend. When will it reach the bottom, I do not know. If you have the spare cash and stable income for the next 5 to 10 yrs, this year will be a good year to purchase a house. I would recommend you to wait at least after the CNY, better still, after Q1 to access the full damage of the financial turmoil on SG economy. You could pick up a few bargains.
 

jw5

Moderator
Moderator
Loyal
There are a lot of very wise advices given by the ppl here. In my own simple words, for most ordinary folks, like myself, property is not for speculation. Of course there are many ppl got it rich by buying and selling properties as a form of gamble or "careful analysis" of the market. But I am sure there are equal number of ppl who got into shit too. They key here I guess, is that you should treat property as a form of capital preservation. However, it will depend on where on the price curve you got your property, definitely not when it's red hot. Any point along the curve other than the max, you should be safe if you have the means to service the loan in the long run. But if you ask me where is the max, really, it's any body guess. At this moment, I can only tell you that it's downward trend. When will it reach the bottom, I do not know. If you have the spare cash and stable income for the next 5 to 10 yrs, this year will be a good year to purchase a house. I would recommend you to wait at least after the CNY, better still, after Q1 to access the full damage of the financial turmoil on SG economy. You could pick up a few bargains.
Even for ordinary people like us who cannot afford to be property investors or speculators, we would like to buy a property for accomodation at a reasonable price, if not at the lowest.
Hence, we would still be interested in the developments in the property market and about who are investing and when, so that we can make our own decision.
 

peterlth

Alfrescian
Loyal
Even for ordinary people like us who cannot afford to be property investors or speculators, we would like to buy a property for accomodation at a reasonable price, if not at the lowest.
Hence, we would still be interested in the developments in the property market and about who are investing and when, so that we can make our own decision.

Thanks. Very good answer.:o
 
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