• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

Here is why Japan advanced in 1800-1945 whereas China become poor nation

sleaguepunter

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Fatty Kim's grandfather definitely sent large numbers of his troops to the CCP army then. maybe he exaggerated the figures. according to Chen Cheng and Fu Zuoyi, there were 100-150K North Korean mercenaries in the CCP army then. in addition. the North Korean Arsenals were available for free pick-up for the CCP. the Soviet Russians' military aid mostly went through North Korea first before it landed into the hands of the CCP. North Korea played the transporter role for CCP then. it is said the North Korean soldiers fought for the CCP during the Liaoshen campaign.

North Korea did help the CCP quite a lot in the war then. to think of it. it was right from Mao Zedong's perspective that he sent 1 million troops to aid North Korea in the Korean war. Mao should repay that big debt owned to Kim II Sung.

Kim sent troops or it ethnic koreans serving in chinese red army? There hundred of thousands ethnic Koreans living in 東北 since Christ was a corporal. Surely 几萬 ethnic korean in the CRA was not surprising. There also tens of thousands of koreans serving the soviet red armies in ww2 too.

I think u too hard up on CCP victory to see that kmt being the problems in it own defeat. I too admit CCP claims to have greatly exaggerate but kmt themselves basically serve victory to CCP due to their own infighting and corruption. There plenty of instances of kmt commanders refusing to help neighboring units because of personal arguments. 把私利放在黨國之上。

The fact 傅作義 surrendered to the CCP with most his command intact already prove kmt 是個扶不起的阿斗。
 

Asterix

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
.............
the idea is never that the CCP cheated the victory by using the spies. it is all about showing respect to the truth of history and debunking the lies of the past. the spies played an ultimately decisive role in the CCP’s military victory, and that was the truth of the Chinese civil war then. whether or not the spies’ contributions made the CCP’s victory much less glorious or enjoyable, that depends on interpretations.

Spies are just one piece in the jigsaw puzzle, albeit an important one. Without good generals, tactics, troop morale, logistics and planning, etc, the information provided by the spies cannot be put to good use.

I look at this period of Chinese history in the the same way I look at the French revolution, Three Kingdoms, Renaissance Italy, etc.

Even in the choice of spy chief, the Peanut (US intelligence service code word for Chiang Kai Shek) proves the saying "birds of the same feather flock together":

Dai Chunfeng soon became a skilled gambler who could often be found in one of Shanghai's many casinos, trying to win enough money to make ends meet. It was in a Shanghai casino that he met Du Yuesheng, head of the criminal Green Gang. Through Du Yuesheng he later met Chiang Kai-shek. It is unclear when Chiang and Dai first met, but it was likely around 1921. He later lost all of his money and was forced to return home to Bao'an. In 1927, Dai met his elementary school friend Mao Renfeng who suggested that he enroll in the Whampoa Military Academy in Guangzhou, where Chiang was then Superintendent-Commandant. Dai took the suggestion, obtained a letter of recommendation from Du Yuesheng and set off for Guangzhou.

...........

The benign title of The Investigation and Statistics Bureau belied the true nature of its secret police work, making Dai one of the most powerful men in China, and earning him the nickname "the Himmler of China". Dai was also the head of the Blue Shirts Society, a fascist organization that did security and intelligence work for Chiang. In 1930s and 1940s, his agents from Military-Statistics Bureau were very successful at penetrating the Chinese Communist Party and Imperial Japanese puppet organizations.

Dai worked with the United States during World War II and was taught new methods of espionage, and his guerrilla force grew to 70,000 men. In return for this partnership, he made available maps of the South China coast, intelligence on Japanese maneuvers and a safe haven for downed Allied aircrew. After the signing of the SACO Treaty in 1942, Dai was placed as head of Sino-American intelligence activities.

Dai died in a plane crash on March 17, 1946, possibly arranged by his counterpart and rival in the Communist Party of China (CPC), the notorious CPC security and intelligence chief Kang Sheng, although there are rumours it was arranged by the American Office of Strategic Services,[1] because it happened aboard an American plane."

While he avoided public entertainments and remained a mysterious figure to his countrymen, Dai was privately known for his wild drinking parties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dai_Li
 

Sideswipe

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Kim sent troops or it ethnic koreans serving in chinese red army? There hundred of thousands ethnic Koreans living in 東北 since Christ was a corporal. Surely 几萬 ethnic korean in the CRA was not surprising. There also tens of thousands of koreans serving the soviet red armies in ww2 too.

I think u too hard up on CCP victory to see that kmt being the problems in it own defeat. I too admit CCP claims to have greatly exaggerate but kmt themselves basically serve victory to CCP due to their own infighting and corruption. There plenty of instances of kmt commanders refusing to help neighboring units because of personal arguments. 把私利放在黨國之上。

The fact 傅作義 surrendered to the CCP with most his command intact already prove kmt 是個扶不起的阿斗。


according to Kim II Sung, he sent the troops. according to the KMT, some Korean soldiers were captured in battle. they were interrogated, and they revealed that they came from North Korea and the government of North Korea sent them to China to join the CCP army. the KMT's account corroborated Kim's words.

the KMT infighting and corruption were all exaggerated to various degrees.

it is said Fu Zuoyi deeply regretted his surrender to the CCP. according to Chiang Kai Shek's diaries, Fu wrote a secret letter to him and apologized for his surrender decision then.
 

Sideswipe

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Spies are just one piece in the jigsaw puzzle, albeit an important one. Without good generals, tactics, troop morale, logistics and planning, etc, the information provided by the spies cannot be put to good use.


it is said the training of the CCP army were provided by the Soviets and the Japanese during the 1945-1949 civil war. the CCP had officially revealed that they employed 30,000 Japanese Kwantung army POWs in various service vocations in the army then. they mainly worked as military trainers or specialist staffs in weapon productions for the CCP army.
 
Top