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Here Is the BIG Question. Did SG Send B_ombs to Israel for Them to Use in This Hamas War?

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
SG and Israel are in similar spatial situation, from the river to the sea we are surrounded by peaceful believers.
It is completely different circumstances, only an idiot would compare singapore geopolitics to the jews
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Yep, we are similar. Hence as mexicans, they came to help us, to save us. We will never forget.
We never needed saving u retard. The British had a sizeable contingent here including the best air force, gurkha units, etc. and backed up with units from the Australian and New zealand army on the ground. On top of that, Singapore was a huge logistics and R & R base for the US military during the Vietnam war. Thousands of US military personnel on the island at any one time. No country was stupid enough to try anything.
 

glockman

Old Fart
Asset
We never needed saving u retard. The British had a sizeable contingent here including the best air force, gurkha units, etc. and backed up with units from the Australian and New zealand army on the ground. On top of that, Singapore was a huge logistics and R & R base for the US military during the Vietnam war. Thousands of US military personnel on the island at any one time. No country was stupid enough to try anything.
After independence, none were willing to help sg build up its own military, including the brits. The rest of what happened is well documented. You are expressing your own opinion on history, that's all. And you are entitled to do so, to live in your own fantasy, to believe in your own interpretation.
 

Loofydralb

Alfrescian
Loyal
After independence, none were willing to help sg build up its own military, including the brits. The rest of what happened is well documented. You are expressing your own opinion on history, that's all. And you are entitled to do so, to live in your own fantasy, to believe in your own interpretation.
Actually there was a twist to that history.
SG requested help from Egypt to help build up the SAF, but was rebuffed. Israelis then stepped in. Well, that was the common story.

But less well known was the story that the egyptian president was infiltrated by an israeli spy who worked as the president's advisor! And we all know how zionists love undermining egyptian effort at making allies and they offered themselves as 'mexican' advisors which also helps their political cause.
 

glockman

Old Fart
Asset
Actually there was a twist to that history.
SG requested help from Egypt to help build up the SAF, but was rebuffed. Israelis then stepped in. Well, that was the common story.

But less well known was the story that the egyptian president was infiltrated by an israeli spy who worked as the president's advisor! And we all know how zionists love undermining egyptian effort at making allies and they offered themselves as 'mexican' advisors which also helps their political cause.
Egypt, India, UK and don't know who else rejected to help.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
After independence, none were willing to help sg build up its own military, including the brits. The rest of what happened is well documented. You are expressing your own opinion on history, that's all. And you are entitled to do so, to live in your own fantasy, to believe in your own interpretation.
U fucking retard. What I said is a fact. The UK guaranteed the defence of Singapore at that time with the ANZUK treaty. Look it up fucktard. We don't need to build up any military. The Brits, Aussies, New Zealanders already signed a defence treaty with us. U are such a moron
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Actually there was a twist to that history.
SG requested help from Egypt to help build up the SAF, but was rebuffed. Israelis then stepped in. Well, that was the common story.

But less well known was the story that the egyptian president was infiltrated by an israeli spy who worked as the president's advisor! And we all know how zionists love undermining egyptian effort at making allies and they offered themselves as 'mexican' advisors which also helps their political cause.
Another fucking stupid comment. No approach was ever made to Egypt. The Egyptian army was a big joke and they are a muslim country. Old Fart would never have asked a muslim country to build up our SAF. He was already paranoid from a phantom invasion from a neighbouring muslim country. The first country approached to help set up the SAF were the Indians. Its in his book.
 

glockman

Old Fart
Asset
U fucking retard. What I said is a fact. The UK guaranteed the defence of Singapore at that time with the ANZUK treaty. Look it up fucktard. We don't need to build up any military. The Brits, Aussies, New Zealanders already signed a defence treaty with us. U are such a moron
In 1967, the UK ended its defence guarantees of Malaya under the Anglo-Malayan Defence Agreement and withdrew its armed forces east of Suez.

ANZUK treaty? It was disbanded in 1973, so there goes the UK's guarantee. Then there was also the 1971 FPDA, which did not provide for any specific commitment to intervene militarily, and is merely consultative. And thanks to the Israeli's assist, we began to possess a stronger military to participate in the exercises. And today we can hold our own during FPDA exercises.

We still need our own military force as a sovereign country, in order to ensure our security. Relying on others to protect us is foolhardy.

What you said may be facts, but your analysis lacks continuation, your interpretation and rationale do not make good sense.

Go refresh your momory :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANZUK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Power_Defence_Arrangements
 

glockman

Old Fart
Asset
A good read on the beginnings of the SAF.

The first military advisors sent from Israel to S'pore were called 'Mexicans' in order to be discreet​

Soft truths to keep Singapore from stalling.
Mothership |
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January 04, 2020, 06:11 PM

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Beating the Odds Together, edited by Mattia Tomba, is a collection of essays which commemorates the 50 years of diplomatic relations between Singapore and Israel.

Here, we reproduce an excerpt from an essay contributed by Peter Ho, titled "A Mexican Fandango with a Poisonous Shrimp", where he described Israel's military contributions in developing Singapore as a poisonous shrimp during a time of great uncertainty.

Ho headed Singapore's civil service from 2005 to 2010, and was also Permanent Secretary (Defence) from 2000 to 2004. He is currently the Senior Advisor to the Centre for Strategic Futures.


Beating the Odds Together is published by World Scientific and you can get a copy of it here.

***
By Peter Ho

Bilateral relations between the two nations had to be discreet

The defence ties between Singapore and Israel are almost as old as independent Singapore. Arguably, this unusual partnership was the foundation upon which the larger bilateral relationship has been built.

But for many years, it was shrouded in secrecy.


To this day, little has been written about the Singapore–Israel defence relationship despite its significance. This reticence is derived from the reality of Singapore’s neighbourhood.

The state visit of then-Israeli President Chaim Herzog to Singapore in 1986 sparked demonstrations — and political remonstrations — in both Malaysia and Indonesia.

This experience would have reinforced in the minds of policymakers in Singapore that the bilateral relationship with Israel — above all, the sensitive defence relationship — had to be managed discreetly in order to preserve and protect the substance.

The Israelis were referred to as "Mexicans"​


So all these years, while Singapore has not denied that it has close defence links with Israel, at the same time, it has eschewed speaking openly about them and revealed few details.

Indeed, this low-key approach was adopted when the first team of military advisers from the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) visited Singapore in 1965, soon after Singapore’s separation from Malaysia. To disguise their presence, they were famously described as “Mexicans”.

In his memoirs, Lee Kuan Yew remarked that they looked “swarthy enough”, presumably because of their tough life in training and operations under the hot Levantine sun.

Since then, Singapore’s links with the Israeli defence establishment have grown in breadth and depth. A close relationship between two very different systems emerged.

If the Israelis were “Mexicans”, then perhaps the active and lively way that Singapore engaged Israel on the defence front could be described as a Mexican fandango.

The newly independent Singapore faced an existential crisis​

To understand the roots of this Mexican fandango, we need to go back to 1965, when Singapore separated from Malaysia. Few then gave Singapore much chance of surviving on its own, let alone succeeding.

With the unexpected and unwanted divorce, Singapore lost its economic hinterland in Malaysia. A communist insurgency was barely over.

President Soekarno’s Indonesia was still waging an armed confrontation — Konfrontasi— against the “neo- colonialist” creation of Malaysia, and Singapore was not spared. The Vietnam War was growing in intensity.

These were not propitious beginnings for the newly independent state of Singapore. It was a very parlous situation that convinced the Singaporean leadership of the imperative to rapidly build up a credible — and independent — defence capability.

It was an existential priority from day one.

Singapore had to become a poisonous shrimp​

It did not take rocket science to figure out that Singapore’s defences were in a bad state. At independence, Singapore had only two under-strength infantry battalions, with more than half of the soldiers Malaysians.

There was an ageing wooden gunboat, and not a single aircraft — nothing that could pass for either a navy or an air force.


Although the British maintained a large military presence in Singapore and Malaysia, political pressure was growing back in London to cut its military presence east of the Suez. Singapore had to assume that the British military presence would be withdrawn at some point in time.

Singapore had to be able to defend itself.



Reflecting this determination, Lee said in 1966 that in a world where the big fish eat small fish and the small fish eat shrimp, Singapore must become a poisonous shrimp.

It may have been bravado then, but the poisonous shrimp metaphor staked out the beginnings of a defence strategy of deterrence that would eventually be embraced by Singapore. So, the task was clear-cut, yet overwhelming — to build an army virtually from scratch, and quickly.

Goh Keng Swee was tasked to build the SAF from scratch​

Dr Goh Keng Swee, then Finance Minister, volunteered to lead the effort, although Lee wryly noted that all Goh knew of military matters had been learnt as a corporal in the British-led Singapore Volunteer Corps until it surrendered to the Japanese in February 1942.


A small team under the leadership of Goh was hastily assembled to form the new Ministry of Interior and Defence, combining into one ministry what is today divided into the Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of Home Affairs.

With a small population and limited resources, Singapore could not afford a large professional army. Initially, the government tried to get round the problem of cost by establishing a part-time volunteer “territorial” army.

It created the People’s Defence Force (PDF) soon after independence.

But, truth be told, the government was not confident of getting enough volunteers,especially as the majority Chinese population had a cultural aversion to service in the military. It was not a sustainable model.

The Brown Book​

Goh had already been impressed by Israel’s defence system during his first visit to the country in January 1959, when he was Minister for Finance.

Israel is a small country like Singapore, but located in a hostile region. It had been among the first to recognise Singapore.

Ze’evi was then the IDF’s Deputy Head of the Operations Directorate. He had the intriguing nickname “Gandhi”. Ze’evi was despatched to Singapore in October 1965 to meet Goh under conditions of great secrecy.

During his visit to Singapore, ever the military professional, Ze’evi travelled incognito by taxi around Singapore to familiarise himself with the terrain and the ground conditions.

Upon his return to Tel Aviv, he assembled his team, which included Meir Amit, then director of Mossad. They developed a masterplan for the build-up of the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF).

This masterplan was called The Brown Book. Ze’evi had it ready within a month, and translated it into English two months later.

The Brown Book was broad in scope. It covered strategy and doctrine. But at its core was the fundamental assessment that the only viable solution for Singapore was to build a citizen army of conscripts, trained and led by a small regular force.

To this end, it proposed the establishment of an “Officer Training School” to produce this corps of professional leaders. Citizen-soldiers would form the backbone of the citizen army, so that in an emergency, the entire nation could be mobilised under arms.

Israeli advisors were here to advise, not to command​

The Brown Book detailed a masterplan to put this concept into effect. It envisaged, among other things,the army’s expansion to 12 battalions within a decade, an objective that could only be achieved through conscription

Soon after, the Singapore and Israeli governments signed a one-page agreement, which stated simply that Israel would provide defence advisers to Singapore. They would be given their equivalent Israeli salaries, plus board and lodging.

Indeed, these terms proved to be very generous on Israel’s part, as Singapore benefited enormously from the priceless advice of the Israelis.
A small group of seven Israeli advisers — or “Mexicans”, if you will — led by Colonel Yaakov “Jack” Elazari arrived in Singapore in November 1965. Prior to their departure, they had met Rabin, who told the team:

“I want you to remember several things. One, we are not going to turn Singapore into an Israeli colony. Your task is to teach them the military profession, to put them on their legs so they can run their own army. Your success will be if at a certain stage they will be able to take the wheel and run the army by themselves. Second, you are not going there in order to command them but to advise them. And third, you are not arms merchants. When you recommend items to procure, use the purest professional military judgment. I want total disregard of their decision as to whether to buy here or elsewhere.”

Pasir Laba was selected as the site for the first Officer Training School
When Elazari landed in Singapore, like Ze’evi before him, he too familiarised himself with the terrain. Driving himself around the island, he kept an eye out for potential sites for the Officer Training School that had been proposed in The Brown Book.

He eventually selected Pasir Laba, having earlier ruled out two islands north-east of the main island: Pulau Ubin and Pulau Tekong.

Elazari made his recommendations to Goh. They were accepted, and led to the establishment of the Singapore Armed Forces Training Institute, or SAFTI.

The bulldozers quickly moved into Pasir Laba. Within a year, the construction of SAFTI was completed, based on plans from the Israeli Engineering Corps. It was an impressive feat, even if SAFTI was very basic in design and facilities, driven by the urgency to get the SAF up and running.

With SAFTI, the Israeli advisers were truly ready for business. Their first priority was to build up a pool of Singaporean instructors and commanders. In the parlance, they “trained the trainers”.

They insisted from the very start that the Singaporean officers were to learn from them so that they could take over as instructors as soon as possible.

Every job they did was understudied by a Singaporean counterpart, from platoon commanders to company commanders, right up to the top position of director general staff. They even had the officer cadets write the instructional material.

Lee observed that while the Americans had sent about 3,000 to 6,000 men in the first batch of military advisers to help President Ngo Dinh Diem build up the South Vietnamese army, the Israelis sent only 18 officers.

First batch of cadets completed their training in July 1967​

On 16 July 1967, Ze’evi, together with the other Israeli advisers, was invited by Goh to the commissioning parade of the first batch of 117 Singapore officer cadets who had completed their training at SAFTI.

On Goh’s instruction, they came in their IDF military uniforms. Goh then explained their presence. He said:

“You have heard of the Six Day War, which commenced on 5 June. Seated here with me today are part of the Israeli mission which has been advising us on how to build an army.”

The “Mexicans” had been unmasked as Israelis. This revelation signalled that Singapore was now ready to deal with any military threat.

With this disclosure coming after the Six Day War in June 1967, the deterrence message was clear: that since the SAF had been designed and trained by the Israelis, it would be a force to be reckoned with.

Goh was staking out the parameters of the poisonous shrimp strategy.

S'pore's first tanks were unveiled on National Day in 1969​

However, it was not only through training that Singapore’s poisonous shrimp strategy was being realised with the assistance of Israel. In great secrecy, Singapore purchased 72 AMX-13 light tanks from IDF surplus.

To support this acquisition, the IDF trained the pioneer team of 36 SAF armour officers in its own armour school back in Israel, just as it had also begun training other military vocationalists from Singapore.

Then the bombshell was dropped. On Singapore’s National Day on 9 August 1969, 30 of these AMX-13 tanks rolled past the reviewing stand at the Padang. With understatement, Lee wrote: “it had a dramatic effect ...”

While some may have had reservations over the relevance of Israel’s military experience to Singapore’s tropical environment, there is no doubt that the IDF has been one of the most important influences on the development of the SAF.

The “Mexicans” played a key role in the early years of the SAF, helping to establish its National Service system, its training system and its military organisation.


Top image from NAS.

https://mothership.sg/2020/01/israel-singapore-defence-military/
 

Willamshakespear

Alfrescian
Loyal
Geopolitics of the 60s looks good on paper, but Geopolitical REALITIES were different. It was a HORRIFYING period for infant Singapore back then. Never, ever compare today's Singapore as what it was back in the 60s.

a)USA was engaged in an unpopular Asia war that was both unpopular at the homefront as well as to troops at the frontline. Thus it was not expected that USA would come to our aid if needed, let alone trained up an Asian nation's military.

b)England was already in the throes of dismantling her empire. The military contingent here were more interested in going home than to train up an Asian military, nor were funds forthcoming from England for such ventures.

c)Factories & Industries were little if non-existent in Asia, let alone Singapore. Most SMEs were cottage industries, mostly for self consumption than export. World trade was still relatively small unlike today. There were NO microchips or Apple computers in the 60s.

Our major employer were England's military contingent here, most serving as drivers, cooks, maids & even shoe polishers to the lazy Brit corporals at mere pennies. They already made clear of the intent to pull out of Singapore by 1973. Many would be left jobless, & there was only $100 million in our Treasury for social expenditure, & even had to PAY for water supplied by neighbouring country.

Our port was small & had NONE of the advanced equipment we see today. There were little paved road for goods transportation. Most were by TongKangs that plied the Singapore River at Boat Quay to transport goods to warehouses.

d)Not many supported the Malaysia Singapore separation. Most presumed we would come crawling back to Malaysia. Some even attempted to accelerate that pace thru communal ethnic violence that saw HORRENDOUS blood chilling race riots between Chinese & Malay groups.

e) Into that mix, came along CCP COMINTERN brutal agents - communist international - destabilizing Asian nations in the hope to turn them all into communist provinces of China, the way Hizbolllah agents are attempting to do the same for Iran today here in Asia, after its success in Iraq, Lebanon, Syria & Palestine.



Singapore needed an ORGANIZED military to protect the nation in the face of dangerous external events happening back then. Only 1 nation answered, a nation that we did NOT even voted at UN for its existence back in 1948, as back then, we were colonized by England - a country that fled or surrendered its troops when Imperial Japan attacked, ABANDONED us & left the Imperial Japan military to torture/slaughter our forefathers

With their help & expertise, along with our pioneer batch of brave NS men & regulars whom passed down the torch of courage to each successive generation, we, just a small nation, became an AMOURED PRAWN, that any aggressor whom dares to bite us will have their teeth broken.

We, regardless of race, language or religion, owes a debt of honor to them for providing the security & peace to our nation for decades, never to be taken for granted or forgotten, but pass on to each innocent generation to come....
 

bigozt

Alfrescian
Loyal
Well argued. Like the Israelis, we cannot trust our well being to the surrounding Muslim led nations around us. As time goes by are turning more extremists.
 

Loofydralb

Alfrescian
Loyal
Another fucking stupid comment. No approach was ever made to Egypt. The Egyptian army was a big joke and they are a muslim country. Old Fart would never have asked a muslim country to build up our SAF. He was already paranoid from a phantom invasion from a neighbouring muslim country. The first country approached to help set up the SAF were the Indians. Its in his book.
The stupid is on you.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singap...w-book-details-how-israel-helped-build-up-the

"Founding Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew had given Dr Goh the go-ahead to approach Israel, after Egypt and India - both of whom Singapore sought help from to build up its defences - did not offer aid after a few weeks of waiting."
 

Willamshakespear

Alfrescian
Loyal
We are NOT Europeans. NOT Arabs. NOT China Communists or Indians. We would NEVER be welcomed in their lands, unless if we are of use & misuse by them, proven for centuries in the quest by their empire building, religious or foolish ideology supremacies...

We are South East ASIANS, from Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei & Indonesia to the Philippines.

Our forefathers fled from such slavish domination from those war & political torn empires into the rich fertile peaceful valleys of S.E. Asia since the 7th century, into the welcoming arms of the Orang Asli - Polynesians - simple folk whom have MORE to enough resources to share for everyone who went here to seek a better & peaceful life, & CREATED WONDERS even beyond the rich resources of S.E. Asia for all...


And yet, we never sought for power in any form. There were difficulties, but managed to overcome in the Orang Asli peaceful ways - there is enough for all without killing each other as happened in Empires...

Until the Empires with their greed, their religious & ideologies supremacist ways, came, with bribes, division of each other to conquer & rob....

We will never forget those whom helped & elevated us, & so too those whom seek to divide us for their supremacists ideologies...

We, the People of South East Asia,
Pledge ourselves as one united People,
Regardless of race, language or religion,
to build a democratic society.
based on justice and equality.
so as to achieve happiness, prosperity and progress for our region


 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset

glockman

Old Fart
Asset
The stupid is on you.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singap...w-book-details-how-israel-helped-build-up-the

"Founding Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew had given Dr Goh the go-ahead to approach Israel, after Egypt and India - both of whom Singapore sought help from to build up its defences - did not offer aid after a few weeks of waiting."
Shitdia did not come to our aid during our hour of need. And when we became a first world country, they happily seek us out to sign CECA. Allowing their filthy goods and their disgusting shitskin to flood and stink up our country. WTF is wrong with the fucking pap? They obviously have amnesia.
 
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