"Goddidit" - the "trump-card" of creationists or other biblical literalists...

[Zatoichi]

... which is why it's so hard for atheists to debate with them in a rational way:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Goddidit

Has anyone heard of it before?

Personally, I'd rather not get myself involved in any debate between these 2 groups of people because their fundamental principles/beliefs are diametrically opposed to each other...

So it seems like a waste of time, since the conclusion can already be predicted:

1. At best, both sides will still politely disagree with each other.
2. At worst, both sides will become very angry with each other, thus affecting their psychological health without any material profit.

I think it's better for people to simply be nice to one another and help one another if they are able to.
That's what I try to do whenever someone asks me for help and if I happen to be able to help.
And sometimes, if I take the initiative to offer my help to someone, but if he/she doesn't want me to help him/her, I just say sorry and move on with my life.

 

[Kinana]

God did create the universe, how can it not be so?

 

[drifter]

God did create the universe, how can it not be so?

so how did your invisibleman create universe ? typhoon , tsunami , earthquake ...ect also created by your invisibleman ?

 

[Kinana]

invisible man god? your god?

 

[Kinana]

so how did your invisibleman create universe ? typhoon , tsunami , earthquake ...ect also created by your invisibleman ?

And how did your god create the universe?

 

[Kinana]

so how did your invisibleman create universe ? typhoon , tsunami , earthquake ...ect also created by your invisibleman ?

By His spoken word.

 

[fishbuff]

By His spoken word.

no, it was created by the heaven jade emperor. The 8 immortals helped to maintained the whole earth's balance.

Su mukong protects the earth from crashing asteroids. See? till this day, we didnt see any asteroids crashing toward earth. that means su mukong is doing his job.

so let us all adore su mukong and give thanks to the Jade emperor..

 

[Kinana]

Journey to the west is a fairy tale written in the 16th century y Wu chen en.

 

[drifter]

And how did your god create the universe?

i dont need any god do you need one ?

 

[drifter]

By His spoken word.

so how did it happen ? so why did your invisibleman create tyhoon , tsunami , earthquake ..ect to kill human ? why is he so evil ?

 

[Kinana]

so how did it happen ? so why did your invisibleman create tyhoon , tsunami , earthquake ..ect to kill human ? why is he so evil ?

He spoke and it happened. So simple.
So your god create using tsunami? typhoon? earthquake?

 

[drifter]

He spoke and it happened. So simple.
So your god create using tsunami? typhoon? earthquake?

what is god ?

 

[Kinana]

what is god ?

You didn't answer my question.
So your god create using tsunami? typhoon? earthquake?

 

[Kinana]

what is god ?

Creator.
You gonna ask me who created the creator right?

 

[MrTed]

"Goddidit" is a trump card very commonly used by monotheists who can't find an explanation or can no longer argue their position from logic. By appealing to authority (in this case the bible or holy scriptures or God), 1. the arguer avoids having to explain anything, and 2. the argument is usually accompanied by a fallacy of ignorance, where he claims that something is so-and-so because there is no evidence that shows otherwise, and a fallacy of "shifting the burden of proof" by getting his opponent to come up with evidence to proof otherwise. How often have we heard arguments like:

C: God created the universe
E: How do you know?
C: How else could it be? Can YOU prove it is not created by God?

As we can see, this is not a good argument because it leads to no conclusion, and there is no logic involved. Granted, atheists cannot explain entirely how the Big Bang occured. However, that does not mean that God has to do it. By restricting ourselves to think that there are only two ways in which the universe could have existed, the Big Bang or God, atheists would have fallen into another trap, the fallacy of false dichotomy. What if there was a third option? Why discount the possibility of the Chinese "Pan Gu" and "Nv Wa"?

What creationists should be doing to prove the existence of God is to provide evidence that can be corroborated by other external credible sources, and put down their pride, ego and faith if they cannot. Stories of so-and-so achieved something impossible, through prayer or otherwise, are insufficient because these personal stories are usually uncredible due to the exaggerations involved. Furthermore, how do we explain the miracles of those non-believers or believers of other religions? Chinese mediums, Malay bomohs?

I cannot claim that I am an atheist. I am more of an agnostic, and I will believe in God if he appears in front of me to prove his existence. However, that has never happened, so I do not see a reason to believe in God (or gods, depending on your religion). Furthermore, modern science have done a relatively good job in explaining most of the phenomenons that occur around me.

Often, it ends up in a "The Loudest Wins" game. Which is really pointless. And not very intellectual.

 

[Reflection]

Yeah Kinana...That's a good question...Who did create the creator?

 

[Kinana]

The Creator was not created. Creation is in him, he is above creation. Thats why he is the Creator.

So who created the universe in your opinion Reflection?

 

[Reflection]

Chances are you yourself do not understand what you wrote. To an atheist looking for meaning and explanation...that would be utter nonsense.

The difference between an atheist and a creationist is that a creationist believes that some entity created the world as it exists today. An atheist believes it just exists or just came into existence.

While they would demand a scientific explanation for creation, they do not, for some strange reason, see that scientifically, the concept that the world was created(or designed) anytime more scientifically valid than it just coming into existance out of nothing. Even the Big bang theory clearly states that the universe formed out of a singularity...not out of nothing.

As I have stated Kinana, I am not an atheist, so I do believe in the concept of a creator and creation...just not the way you believe in it as written in Genesis.

 

[Kinana]

You still did not answer my question. So who is the Creator to you? How did he great the universe? By tsunami? Earthquake? which God do you worship?

 

[Reflection]

God Created the universe. He 'said' "be" ...and it was.