• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

Chinese Stock Market Collapse - Prediction

ScarFace

Alfrescian
Loyal


Econophysicist Predicts Date of Chinese Stock Market Collapse
Tuesday, July 14, 2009


Shanghai%20bubble.png


The Shanghai Composite Index will burst between the 17th and 27th July, according to a new econophysics forecast.

The boom and bust nature of economics is one of the most puzzling aspects of the modern world. In the last year or so, many people have learnt to their cost that when bubbles burst, businesses, jobs and livelihoods can go with them.

So an obvious question arises: can we spot bubbles when they occur and predict when they are about to burst? One group of theorists say they can and have used their techniques to make an extraordinary prediction.

First, they say they've found the tell tale signs of a bubble in the growth rate of the Shanghai Composite stock market index. And second they say this bubble will burst between 17th and 27th July.

That's a brave move so let's look at it in more detail. The theorist behind this prediction is Didier Sornette at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich, who has pioneered the study of market bubbles. Last year, he used his method for spotting bubbles to reveal that oil prices where dangerously inflated.

The tell tale sign of a bubble, he says, is a faster than exponential growth rate caused by a positive feedback mechanism that generates this non-linear growth.

The faster than exponential growth rate is relatively easy to spot. According to the analysis done by him and a few mates, the Shanghai Composite Index certainly seems to have had a faster than exponential growth--a 69 per cent rise since October last year.

Whether an unsustainable positive feedback mechanism is causing this growth isn't so clear. Sornette and co suggest that what is responsible is the Chinese government's massive lending spree designed to maintain its economic growth rate at 8 per cent a year. China has maintained that kind of growth for some years now.

Let's take at face value the idea that a bubble has formed. What of the prediction that it is about to burst? Just how this team arrives at such a precise date isn't clear but whatever the mechanism, this is a much more speculative move.

One thing that physicists have learnt about complex systems such as stock markets, earthquakes and forest fires to name just a few, is that when changes occurs they are scale invariant.

That means that if you were to remove the numbers from the axes of a graph plotting this behaviour, there is no way you could identify the scale of the events by looking at the plot. This implies that there is really no difference in principle between a small change in the stock market today or catastrophic change tomorrow.

That makes predictions of almost anything extremely hard to make, let alone the imminent collapse of a bubble. Impossible may not be too strong a word for it.

Sornette and co do not say how they make their prediction but they do hedge it by saying: "This will lead to a change in regime which may be a crash or a more gentle bubble deflation."

But they're still predicting an end to this faster than exponential growth in the Shanghai Composite Index between 17th and 27th July. That change in growth will of course happen one day but you'd have to have very good reasons to say it will occur between those two dates. Those reasons are missing from this paper.

I say this is a prediction that is impossible to make. And I'm prepared to bet Sornette that he's wrong. The stakes? Let's say an arXivblog baseball cap and t-shirt.
 

singveld

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
about time. chinaman need a reality check

they will never surpass USA

yes their growth is amazing in recent years
but they must know exponential curve mean

mean that the closer it is to USA, the harder it is to achieve growth.

also there are 53 millions muslim in china,but there are only a few millions in usa.

reality check.
 

tonychat

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
about time. chinaman need a reality check

they will never surpass USA

yes their growth is amazing in recent years
but they must know exponential curve mean

mean that the closer it is to USA, the harder it is to achieve growth.

also there are 53 millions muslim in china,but there are only a few millions in usa.

reality check.

Their growth is due to their developing status plus working hard to make it through and also their cheap rate.
 

Lee Hsien Tau

Alfrescian
Loyal
Home > Breaking News > Money > Story

July 27, 2009
China stocks inflated?

stockschina-afp.jpg

-- PHOTO: AFP


SHANGHAI - CHINA'S stock market, up some 85 per cent this year, owes its good fortune largely to loose bank lending and foreign speculators, leaving it awash with cash and lifting share prices above what economic reality can support.

The China Securities Regulatory Commission and other regulators have taken a series of mild steps to cool trading, such as adding stock supplies through IPOs and tightening supervision, but are loath to disrupt China's economic recovery.

While these moves are unlikely to deter market bulls in the months ahead, the party may come to an abrupt end in the fourth quarter if expectations mount that inflation will eventually reach levels that could spur a shift in China's monetary policy.

A policy change as dramatic as a hike in banks' reserve requirements or a rise in benchmark interest rates is considered highly unlikely this year because of fears they could stall the country's economic recovery.

But the stock market will respond long before any such policy action if clear signs emerge that an inflation scenario is unfolding, an informal survey of eight stock analysts and fund managers by Reuters found this week.

Such expectations could push the benchmark Shanghai Composite Index down more than 20 per cent to 2,500 points in the fourth quarter, presuming ample liquidity continues to support the index and keeps it above 3,300 points until October, the market watchers said.

'We are now in real danger of creating another stock bubble similar to what we saw in 2006 and 2007,' said Ren Chengde, senior analyst at Galaxy Securities in Shanghai.

'And the situation is worse this time. In 2006 and 2007, growth in China's economy and corporate earnings was at its peak. This year, the economy has just started improving and corporate earnings growth is still expected to be negative.' -- REUTERS
 

longbow

Alfrescian
Loyal
Reality Check

India has 11.4% of pop are Muslim = 100M!! Third largest Muslim Pop after Indonesia and pakistan.

France has 6 million out of population of 60 million.

According to CIA world fact book China has about 20M Muslims or 1.5% of pop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

about time. chinaman need a reality check

they will never surpass USA

yes their growth is amazing in recent years
but they must know exponential curve mean

mean that the closer it is to USA, the harder it is to achieve growth.

also there are 53 millions muslim in china,but there are only a few millions in usa.

reality check.
 

ScarFace

Alfrescian
Loyal
Er.. did anyone expand the chart and look at the big picture? SSEC is at the bottom right now and how can this be a bubble? Its movement is hardly a 30Deg climb. I would consider a bubble when it is at 60Deg.

Btw, the prophecy between 17th -27th July? Its over.

http://www.kshitij.com/graphgallery/shanghaicandle.shtml

Yes it seems that the econophysicist who made the prediction was wrong. The dates have come and gone, and the Shanghai Composite Index continues to power its way up the charts. Well, the reporter has won him/herself a baseball cap and a t-shirt. Haha! :biggrin:
 

denzuko1

Alfrescian
Loyal
Yes it seems that the econophysicist who made the prediction was wrong. The dates have come and gone, and the Shanghai Composite Index continues to power its way up the charts. Well, the reporter has won him/herself a baseball cap and a t-shirt. Haha! :biggrin:


I think the Econophysicist should start learning about Technical Analysis. It gives more accurate account on market.
 

Snipeshot08

Alfrescian
Loyal
Yes it seems that the econophysicist who made the prediction was wrong. The dates have come and gone, and the Shanghai Composite Index continues to power its way up the charts. Well, the reporter has won him/herself a baseball cap and a t-shirt. Haha! :biggrin:

It is always the same everywhere, somebody will try to make a humongous prediction, this will crash, that will crash, but out of 100 predictions maybe one will be right due to laws of probability :rolleyes:

However they are going the right direction in that most people will exhort or remember that 1 right prediction and totally forget or conveniently ignore that 99 wrong predictions :cool:

Do a simple search, there are plentiful predictions posted but a lot of them have already been proven wrong but who is there to renounce them????
 

denzuko1

Alfrescian
Loyal
I have read a book "Mind of the Turtle" Part of it mentioned that if you ask 5 market experts on market situation, you will get 5 different answers, 6 if one of them from Harvard.
 

dysentry

Alfrescian
Loyal
Vindicated.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jul/29/china-shares-government-bull-market

Chinese shares suffered their biggest fall in eight months today as rumours swept the market that the government was poised to intervene to end its recent rally.

The benchmark Shanghai composite index was down by as much as 7.7% in afternoon trading, despite huge interest in the flotation of China's biggest housebuilder. The index eventually closed down 5% at 3266 points, its biggest daily decline this year.

Before today's falls the Shanghai market had risen by 81% this year, staging a strong recovery following its plunge during 2008. This has prompted speculation that China's banks might curtail lending to prevent another unsustainable market bubble.

Francis Lun, general manager at Fulbright Securities, said there had been a rush to take profits today before central government acts to cool the markets.
 

ScarFace

Alfrescian
Loyal
The econophysicist may be a day late in his earlier prediction, but let's just wait a little while more to see if this one day setback for the SSE sustains and develops into a full blown "collapse" in the coming weeks or months.

If what is predicted comes true, other indices will be severely affected too (eg. HSI and STI), and that will mean lots of people may suffer in time to come. :(
 

Snipeshot08

Alfrescian
Loyal
Vindicated.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jul/29/china-shares-government-bull-market

The benchmark Shanghai composite index was down by as much as 7.7% in afternoon trading, despite huge interest in the flotation of China's biggest housebuilder. The index eventually closed down 5% at 3266 points, its biggest daily decline this year.

Before today's falls the Shanghai market had risen by 81% this year, staging a strong recovery following its plunge during 2008. This has prompted speculation that China's banks might curtail lending to prevent another unsustainable market bubble.
.

I really beg to differ, a sharp correction of 5 to 7.7% doesn't equates to a "Collapse" for a market that rose 81% this year (data taken from your post).

Previous so-called collapse are easily more than 20% in 1 single day.
 
Last edited:

denzuko1

Alfrescian
Loyal
I really beg to differ, a sharp correction of 5 to 7.7% doesn't equates to a "Collapse" for a market that rose 81% this year (data taken from your post).

Previous so-called collapse are easily more than 20% in 1 single day.

I absolutely agree with you. Moreover, SSEC is still at market bottom, one can hardly say it is a bubble. The Econphysicist is more than a year late in predicting the collapse. He should have predicted the fall in 2007.
 
Top