Canadian PR

[Charlie99]

As an immigrant, I hate to admit that I feel overwhelmed by certain type of recent immigrants to Toronto.

We, the early immigrants, work hard, and never relied on social assistance.

Few Singaporeans would consider Alberta. Most don't even know where it is. They usually flock to Vancouver and Toronto.

Personally I like it that way and I hope it stays that way.

For those who know why they want to come to Alberta, and have a plan how they will make it here in Wild Rose, welcome and nice to meet you

I had a colleague who said that when she went to Toronto to visit her friend, she thought she was in another country when at the Airport. The whole flight was full of south asians. Hopefully Alberta never becomes like that!

All this talk about racism and discrimination and passive aggressive....if you look at the Singapore experience you can see why and how it comes about. It is a two way process. Don't just put all the blame on the local Canadians in Ontario. When the place becomes overrun with foreigners something changes in attitudes indeed.

A balance is very important. I am very thankful that there are no direct flights from Asia to Alberta and it is further inland and not so accessible. It helps to weed out certain types of immigrants.

 

[nayr69sg]

As an immigrant, I hate to admit that I feel overwhelmed by certain type of recent immigrants to Toronto.

We, the early immigrants, work hard, and never relied on social assistance.

Haha! I know what you mean. Conservatives vs Liberals. No question I prefer the blue.

 

[Charlie99]

Haha! I know what you mean. Conservatives vs Liberals. No question I prefer the blue.

Before you arrived in Canada, most of us in Ontario will recall the financial disaster ($10 billion deficit) incurred by the NDP Ontario government led by Bob Rae in the 1990's.

I heard this from a neighbour in Toronto.
During a campaign for elections, a man who is a Conservative spoke to the daughter of his neighbours who support the NDP. The young lady / girl asked the Conservative why he did not put a $10 bill into the hat of the homeless man outside the liquor store. The Conservative said that he works for a living, and asked her whether she would be interested to mow his lawn for $10, so that she can give the $10 to the homeless man. She replied: "may be he can mow your lawn." He responded: "that is my point"

 

[kingrant]

I think Saskaetchwan and saskatoon are filling with these types?

I had a colleague who said that when she went to Toronto to visit her friend, she thought she was in another country when at the Airport. The whole flight was full of south asians. Hopefully Alberta never becomes like that!

 

[mayliewwan]

Errr...didn't you know Air Canada has direct flight from Calgary to Tokyo 5 times a week???

A balance is very important. I am very thankful that there are no direct flights from Asia to Alberta and it is further inland and not so accessible. It helps to weed out certain types of immigrants.

 

[nayr69sg]

I think Saskaetchwan and saskatoon are filling with these types?

Bingo! They even created a program for doctors to come right into Sask to work in rural areas without having to take any canadian exams. Just have a return of service contract.

I am sure it is filling up right now.

 

[Time2Evacuate]

$4 milk vs $1 milk. $3 difference. That's not going to prevent me from buying a 4 litre jug of milk. Much less choose where I want to live because of that $3 difference.

$20K Toyota Corolla vs $90k Toyota Corolla.....now that's something to consider carefully.

Don't be so sure.

Try visiting the major cities in Canada, and experience the sky high prices for yourself.

It always amazes me how Sinkies back home complain about the rising cost of living there.

Yes, the prices in Singapore are rising for daily items. But they are still well-within the range of reasonableness.

Just try visiting Canada and see first hand what true sky high prices are.

C$4 something for a 4 litre bag (they sell them in bags) of milk is considered very cheap in Canada. That is just one small example. The prices of most things (99% of the time) are about 25% to 40% more expensive than the prices of the exact same item in the U.S.

Or try to take a ride on the public transportation. C$3 for a short one-way, 5 minute streetcar ride. On top of that, add in the rude passengers and rude drivers.

On top of that, add in 13% sales and services tax if you are in Ontario. And on top of that, add in close to 50% income tax depending on your bracket.

And on top of that, add in the passive aggressiveness and silent treatment and cold stares and cold shoulders of the locals.

And you will see if you can make it in Canada.

 

[Time2Evacuate]

Before you arrived in Canada, most of us in Ontario will recall the financial disaster ($10 billion deficit) incurred by the NDP Ontario government led by Bob Rae in the 1990's.

I heard this from a neighbour in Toronto.
During a campaign for elections, a man who is a Conservative spoke to the daughter of his neighbours who support the NDP. The young lady / girl asked the Conservative why he did not put a $10 bill into the hat of the homeless man outside the liquor store. The Conservative said that he works for a living, and asked her whether she would be interested to mow his lawn for $10, so that she can give the $10 to the homeless man. She replied: "may be he can mow your lawn." He responded: "that is my point"

I would add a modern, up-to-date slant to this.

NEVER give any money to the homeless in Toronto.

They will use the money to buy meth for iv-injection.

Almost all of the homeless in Toronto are meth addicts on iv. People who naively give them money out of sympathy are actually enabling their drug addiction.

That is what many Sinkies don't understand when they travel outside of SG.

 

[Time2Evacuate]

Do you reside in Ontario?

I have been living in Toronto for more than 30 years.
There are good and not so good aspects.
No city is perfect.

True. There are good and bad aspects, but it is mostly bad.

I used to live in Toronto too.

It used to be a decent place to live, but it has all changed now in the past decade and a half perhaps due to the massive influx of Indians and Pakistanis and Africans and also PRCs.

More generally, if one wants to migrate to Canada, one should try hard to aim for the U.S. first.

Even after the U.S., consider other places before resorting to migrating to Canada.

I can't say anything about places in Canada other than BC and ON. But as far as Ontario/Toronto goes, it is close to being the worst that you can do to yourself.

Extremely unfriendly people everywhere, lots of silent hostility and passive resentment towards non-European immigrants. Just lots of silent treatment and cold stares all over the place.

Maybe the resentment is caused by the massive influx of immigrants who have misbehaved and caused lots of social problems (shootings and violence, etc.).

But the problem is that the locals tend to lump all non-European immigrants together and mistreat them and discriminate against them in a silent manner. So if you are a Sinkie, you might get lumped together with all others from places like India/Pakistan/Africa.

I would even go as far as to say that even an outright racist place like Australia is better than Canada, but I think this point is open to debate, depending on your preference and tolerance level.

The real issue is whether a Sinkie is able to handle the pervasive, frequent unfriendliness of the place, and the wide-spread passive aggressive treatment of immigrants, in addition to the usual smugness, standoffishness of the local whites.

Just save yourselves the trouble and go U.S. or Europe, people there are more open and friendly.

 

[Charlie99]

It depends on which region you are referring to.

I assume you are referring to Alberta, which I believe does not have the passive aggressiveness problem much.

On the other hand, if you have the misfortune of living in Upper Canada (i.e., Ontario), you would know what I mean by passive aggressive.

And no, passive aggressiveness is not better than "active aggressiveness". Each can be just as bad or worse than the other -- it all depends on how pervasive it is. For example, in the U.S. one can argue that it is the active type -- but the "active" racist incidents (those where racism is stated overtly and in words) are relatively few. You do encounter such incidents perhaps a couple of times a year at the most, depending on which region in the U.S. you are in.

But in certain places in Canada (such as Ontario), the passive aggressiveness is quite prevalent and frequent (i.e., you encounter it several times a week). No words are said, and you simply get the silent treatment and cold shoulders or stares.

I am not sure which is more tolerable. But I think I prefer the U.S. version because it is more open and direct and also it is far less frequent, and you can confront it.

Do you reside in Ontario?
or did you reside in Ontario?

 

[Charlie99]

True. There are good and bad aspects, but it is mostly bad.

I used to live in Toronto too.

It used to be a decent place to live, but it has all changed now in the past decade and a half perhaps due to the massive influx of Indians and Pakistanis and Africans and also PRCs.

More generally, if one wants to migrate to Canada, one should try hard to aim for the U.S. first.

Even after the U.S., consider other places before resorting to migrating to Canada.

I can't say anything about places in Canada other than BC and ON. But as far as Ontario/Toronto goes, it is about the worst that you can do to yourself.

Extremely unfriendly people everywhere, lots of silent hostility and passive resentment towards non-European immigrants. Just lots of silent treatment and cold stares all over the place.

Maybe the resentment is caused by the massive influx of immigrants who have misbehaved and caused lots of social problems, and also shootings and violence.

But the problem is that the locals tend to lump all non-European immigrants together and mistreat them and discriminate against them. So if you are a Sinkie, you might get lumped together with all others from places like India/Pakistan/Africa.

I would even go as far as to say that even an outright racist place like Australia is better than Canada, but I think this point is open to debate, depending on your preference and tolerance level.

The real issue is whether a Singaporean is able to handle the pervasive, frequent unfriendliness of the place, and the wide-spread passive aggressive treatment of immigrants, in addition to the usual smugness, standoffishness.

Really?
Where and how long did you live full time (throughout the year, not escaping the winter) in the Province of Ontario?

I have been here for more than 30 years, and seldom interact with Singaporeans or Chinese.

 

[Time2Evacuate]

Downtown Toronto core, for about 12 years.

Where are you in ON? I heard that in smaller northern towns, the white locals are less unfriendly, but not much improvement over those in Toronto.

My biggest problem with Canada/Ontario/Toronto is actually not the extremely high cost of living and the price-gouging, but the high level of silent passive aggression.

 

[indig10]

If you are sitting on the fence and reading this thread because you're making a decision to emigrate or not, you will arrive at one of these three situations:

1. The opinions expressed will influence you and deter you completely.

2. The opinions expressed will influence you and deter you for awhile.

3. The opinions expressed will influence you but not deter your decision at all.

Some posts are meant to achieve achieve 1 while others are meant to achieve 2.

If you belong to 2, you will postpone your decision again and again until too much time has passed that you eventually give up your intention and plans to emigrate. Some of you even have your PR status but are still in Singapore.

Life is not going to be a bed of roses when you leave and sink roots in your new destination. It is going to be much, much tougher. You will feel miserable often and even question why you made this stupid decision. You will keep encountering rejection after rejection, disappointment after disappointment, failure after countless failure. All the while as you watch your bank account become smaller each time you go to the ATM to withdraw money. All the while as pressure mounts when your family expenses need to be paid while you're either jobless looking for a job, or working in a survival job that pays less than what you need to get by each month. For those who have sizeable reserves or confirmed job offers or transfers, life is gentler and kinder in managing the transition.

But if you do not have that offer or job in hand, and are desperately seeking to achieve your dream or ideal... eventually, you convince yourself that what was said in this thread is correct, or what was uttered by your relatives, friends and colleagues are correct.., all the discouragement masked in seemingly factual and first-hand experience accounts. And finally you make your move back a broken man, neither a realized/fulfilled/actualized person in your destination of dreams nor in your origin of disappointments.

Or...

... you accept that such distractions and propaganda are part and parcel of a waning regime's last gasp and seizure of power. That it may be omnipresent around you, but never omnipotent over you.

You will learn to let the fear pass through you and make the decision move on, move forward towards a different life where your hopes, wishes and ideals in your destination country are not measured by the same standards and criteria as those in Singapore.

You will question your own interpretation, values, beliefs and ideals in that process. A survival job will have no shame nor hold any sway over you for fear of what your relatives and friends back in Singapore perceive of you and how low you have sunk. "So poor thing... Tsk tsk tsk... Can't find a good job and now working as <XYZ>... Hai..."

Your thinking will be changed as a result of the new experiences and new people you meet.

Your assumptions, expectations and way of thinking changes surreptitiously and for the better and you will look back with a renewed faith and courage in yourself... a new you.

 

[indig10]

Have you ever asked yourself:

"Why do I always seem to get discouraged whenever I read posts by people who say this and that country are not good because of so-and-so reason?"

Is there an enculturated Singaporean cynicism to validate the negative and impossible?

How is it that people can say that they have had such a bad experience in those countries, yet stayed there for 12 whole years?

How is it that they can answer specific questions asked by forumners on where they stayed but the answers are conveniently vague and ambiguous, getting the basic facts wrong in a way that those who truly live there would know at one reading... "This person is a fake and a charlatan. A deceiving person with an agenda."

How is it that a person can have so many negative experiences yet stayed there for 12 years and nothing seems to be of reproach about that person throughout all postings, only negative comments about migration and countries.

 

[Charlie99]

Downtown Toronto core, for about 12 years.

Where are you in ON? I heard that in smaller northern towns, the white locals are less unfriendly, but not much improvement over those in Toronto.

My biggest problem with Canada/Ontario/Toronto is actually not the extremely high cost of living and the price-gouging, but the high level of silent passive aggression.

I have live within 2 blocks (streets) in Toronto (near Chester subway station - where Playter Estates is West of Chester subway station, and Prime Riverdale is just South of Chester subway station) for more than 30 consecutive years.

Passive aggression or active discrimination or prejudice, or whatever you wish to refer to it, I am in a profession where it is dominated by BIG Anglo firms or Jews. During my earlier days, I may be one of a very few Asian / of Chinese descent, in this profession.

 

[Charlie99]

Have you ever asked yourself:

"Why do I always seem to get discouraged whenever I read posts by people who say this and that country are not good because of so-and-so reason?"

Is there an enculturated Singaporean cynicism to validate the negative and impossible?

How is it that people can say that they have had such a bad experience in those countries, yet stayed there for 12 whole years?

How is it that they can answer specific questions asked by forumners on where they stayed but the answers are conveniently vague and ambiguous, getting the basic facts wrong in a way that those who truly live there would know at one reading... "This person is a fake and a charlatan. A deceiving person with an agenda."

How is it that a person can have so many negative experiences yet stayed there for 12 years and nothing seems to be of reproach about that person throughout all postings, only negative comments about migration and countries.

Interesting.

There is no question that the younger an individual emigrates, the easier it is to adapt and integrate.
This is based on my experience, when upon graduation from university (before convocation), I left on a one-way ticket (via PANAM, which is a clue, because PANAM no longer exist).

 

[nayr69sg]

I can't say anything about places in Canada other than BC and ON. But as far as Ontario/Toronto goes, it is close to being the worst that you can do to yourself.

Why did you go to BC and ON in the first place?

Anyway, I think Singaporeans should not be too discouraged. If you really want to go to Vancouver and Toronto, please go! It is surely still a good place to go. They are usually the choice places to go for immigrants for a reason. So please go there!!!!

The other places outside of BC and ON have got to be worse!!!! Otherwise why would so many immigrants still be going to BC and ON?

As for price comparisons, here is a helpful link.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...country2=Canada&city1=Singapore&city2=Toronto

If you don't like Toronto and Vancouver then don't bother going to Canada. It is a very small country and the other cities are very tiny, even more expensive with no jobs and very very ulu.

Australia would be the better bet. As it is, it's very difficult to qualify to be a PR for Canada these days so I think most Singaporeans who want to come won't qualify anyway.

 

[johnny333]

Few Singaporeans would consider Alberta. Most don't even know where it is. They usually flock to Vancouver and Toronto.

Personally I like it that way and I hope it stays that way.

For those who know why they want to come to Alberta, and have a plan how they will make it here in Wild Rose, welcome and nice to meet you

I had a colleague who said that when she went to Toronto to visit her friend, she thought she was in another country when at the Airport. The whole flight was full of south asians. Hopefully Alberta never becomes like that!

All this talk about racism and discrimination and passive aggressive....if you look at the Singapore experience you can see why and how it comes about. It is a two way process. Don't just put all the blame on the local Canadians in Ontario. When the place becomes overrun with foreigners something changes in attitudes indeed.

A balance is very important. I am very thankful that there are no direct flights from Asia to Alberta and it is further inland and not so accessible. It helps to weed out certain types of immigrants.

I have relatives in Vancouver & Mississauga. They have been there for decades. Back then their choice was determined by the available jobs. The one working in Ontario is an engineer working in the aircraft manufacturing line. The one in Vancouver is in finance.

Those Sporeans that I know who are living in Alberta are in the more mobile occupations like programmers, sales jobs,...

The lack of direct flights is a pain. It makes it difficult to visit my friends in Edmonton

 

[johnny333]

Interesting.

There is no question that the younger an individual emigrates, the easier it is to adapt and integrate.
This is based on my experience, when upon graduation from university (before convocation), I left on a one-way ticket (via PANAM, which is a clue, because PANAM no longer exist).

I recently asked for opinions as to whether someone could retire in Spore with a passive income of $50,000 per year. Some thought that it is too little considering the expensive cost of medical care in Spore.

So I think that there may be more older Sporeans considering going there.

 

[Charlie99]

I recently asked for opinions as to whether someone could retire in Spore with a passive income of $50,000 per year. Some thought that it is too little considering the expensive cost of medical care in Spore.

So I think that there may be more older Sporeans considering going there.

With respect, and not to be impolite, frankly, I do not care and do not bother whether or not Singaporeans are emigrating to Canada.
I rarely interact with Singaporeans and Chinese, but last year, I met a recent immigrant from Singapore for lunch.
However, I am unsure whether or not he has found income producing work.

Many years ago when [nayr69sg] was posting about his considerations and plans to emigrate to either Australia or Canada, I started following this Emigration folder.
I believe that [nayr69sg] has successfully settled in Alberta, Canada. He was a medical doctor in Singapore, but he is a very humble pragmatic individual, who worked in a factory manufacturing windows, when he arrived in Edmonton, Alberta.
If new immigrants are similar to [nayr69sg], there will be less individuals who rely on Employment Insurance or social assistance.