• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

Bloomberg: China will Collapse Within 5 Years

londoncabby

Alfrescian
Loyal
http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...risis-within-5-years-45-of-investors-say.html

China Will Face Crisis Within 5 Years, 45% of Investors Say

January 26, 2011, 6:11 PM EST
More From Businessweek

* Apple May Not Need to Reveal Details of Steve Jobs Medical Leave
* No Rest for Retirees
* EMC Wants R-E-S-P-E-C-T
* The Robot in the Next Cubicle
* Managing Employees in Their Twenties

Story Tools

* e-mail this story
* print this story
*
* 0diggsdigg
* add to Business Exchange

By David J. Lynch

(For a special report on the Bloomberg Global Poll, see {POLL <GO>}.)

Jan. 27 (Bloomberg) -- Global investors are bracing for the end of China’s relentless economic growth, with 45 percent saying they expect a financial crisis there within five years.

An additional 40 percent anticipate a Chinese crisis after 2016, according to a quarterly poll of 1,000 Bloomberg customers who are investors, traders or analysts. Only 7 percent are confident China will indefinitely escape turmoil.

“There is no doubt that China is in the midst of a speculative credit-driven bubble that cannot be sustained,” says Stanislav Panis, a currency strategist at TRIM Broker in Bratislava, Slovakia, and a participant in the Bloomberg Global Poll, which was conducted Jan. 21-24. Panis likens the expected fallout to the aftermath of the U.S. subprime-mortgage meltdown.

On Jan. 20, China’s National Bureau of Statistics reported that the economy grew 10.3 percent in 2010, the fastest pace in three years and up from 9.2 percent a year earlier. Gross domestic product rose to 39.8 trillion yuan ($6 trillion).

Any Chinese financial emergency would reverberate around the world. The total value of the country’s exports and imports last year was $3 trillion, with about 13 percent of that trade between China and the U.S. As of November, China also held $896 billion in U.S. Treasuries. The trade and investment links between the two nations were underlined with Chinese President Hu Jintao’s visit last week to the White House for meetings with President Barack Obama.

Worried Neighbors

Fifty-three percent of poll respondents say they believe China is a bubble, while 42 percent disagree. China’s neighbors are the most concerned: 60 percent of Asia-based respondents identified a bubble in the world’s second-largest economy.

Worries center on the danger that investment, which surged almost 24 percent in 2010, may be producing empty apartment blocks and unneeded factories.

Jonathan Sadowsky, chief investment officer at Vaca Creek Asset Management in San Francisco, says he is “exceptionally worried” that the Chinese would eventually face “major dislocations within their banking system.”

Chinese authorities also raised interest rates twice in the fourth quarter in a bid to choke off inflation, a sensitive political issue since the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests, which followed uncontrolled price increases. Food prices last year rose 7.2 percent, according to the National Bureau of Statistics.

‘Rapid Wage Inflation’

Haroon Shaikh, an investment manager with GAM London Ltd., cited “rapid wage inflation” and soaring property prices as the financial markets’ chief concern.

Li Daokui, an adviser to China’s central bank, said rising real estate prices are the “biggest danger” to the Chinese economy, in an interview with Bloomberg News in Davos, Switzerland. The People’s Bank of China should “gradually increase rates in the first and second quarter,” Li said.

Since peaking on Nov. 8 at 3159.51, the Shanghai Composite Index has slid about 14 percent. “The market is right to be nervous,” Michael Pettis, a finance professor at Peking University’s Guanghua School of Management, wrote in his Jan. 26 financial newsletter.

Some investors remain unbowed. “China can continue to grow over 10 percent for the better part of the next five years,” said Ardavan Mobasheri, head of AIG Global Economics in New York.

Growth Seen Slowing

Still, the poll found other signs of mounting investor caution toward China, where three decades of market-oriented reform has obliterated a legacy of Maoist impoverishment.

Asked to identify the worst market for investment over the next year, 20 percent of poll respondents say China versus just 11 percent in the last poll in November. Almost half of those polled -- 48 percent -- say a significant slowing of growth was very or fairly likely within the next two years.

Michael Martin, senior vice president of MDAvantage Insurance Company of New Jersey, says the Chinese government “has executed brilliantly” in managing the economy. The government’s capacity will be tested as the economy grows and becomes more complex, he says.

Chinese officials have said they intend to wean the economy of its reliance upon exports, the source of trade tensions with the U.S., in favor of greater domestic consumption.

Peter Hurst, a broker with Sterling International Brokers in London, says he’s concerned China will struggle to complete the transition.

“Yes, there are 1.3 billion people in China,” he says. “But are they rich enough to become consumers?”

Global Impact

If China stumbles, the global economy will feel the impact, says Suresh Raghavan, chief investment officer for Raghavan Financial Inc. in Houston. “If the PBOC is successful at lowering growth rates to 7 percent, it will still feel like a recession for a lot of people around the world,” he says.

Most poll respondents remained confident of the Chinese government’s ability to fend off demands for greater political liberalization. Just 1 percent expect a political crisis within the next year and 27 percent expect one within the next two to five years.

And by a 60 percent to 30 percent margin, those surveyed say President Hu’s policies were favorable to investors. Hu tied with German Chancellor Angela Merkel for the poll’s top spot.

“The Chinese politicians are able to act on all necessary issues. That gives them a huge advantage compared to the Western economies,” says Henry Littig, who heads his own global investment firm in Cologne, Germany.

The poll was conducted by Des Moines, Iowa-based Selzer & Co. for Bloomberg and has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.1 percentage points.

--Editors: Mark McQuillan, Max Berley.
 

Watchman

Alfrescian
Loyal
Nah it will not happen in a thousand years .

Just like their foreign trade policy doors did not open for thousands of years .
 

NoelVermillion

Alfrescian
Loyal
As the economy rises, Chinese will get more educated and the CCP might be overthrown sooner or later, after most of the Chinese are exposed to democracy.
 

annexa

Alfrescian
Loyal
45% og global investers. Who are these people polled? Anti-China Americans? Come on la, don't hide being big names to bullshit us.
 

tanwahtiu

Alfrescian
Loyal
If China collapse, then there will be expensive Christmas gifts and presents for the Quilos Christmas festive. So angmoh better not let China collapse.
 

Aussie Prick

Alfrescian
Loyal
Well our firm and our clients have pulled out of China now. We cant trust China government figures but our research shows inflation is much higher than reported;some riots have broken out that the Chinese news have blacked out. Price controls are behind the 5.1-4.6% Nov-Dec numbers so its not accurate.

We all know what happens to boom and bust cycles. Rising m2 money supply last year by 19.7% with 10% growth means inflation is rampant - perhaps approcaching hyperinflation. Also the Chinese banks have loans that are off balance sheet so we have no way of knowing how bad the situation is. All we know is the money supply is exploding, credit is continuing to rise despite govt reserve ration moves as banks are finding loopholes to lend.

If you think the US is printing $$$, people need to see how much stimulus China has injected- and now the consequences are clear.
 

NoelVermillion

Alfrescian
Loyal
Well our firm and our clients have pulled out of China now. We cant trust China government figures but our research shows inflation is much higher than reported;some riots have broken out that the Chinese news have blacked out. Price controls are behind the 5.1-4.6% Nov-Dec numbers so its not accurate.

We all know what happens to boom and bust cycles. Rising m2 money supply last year by 19.7% with 10% growth means inflation is rampant - perhaps approcaching hyperinflation. Also the Chinese banks have loans that are off balance sheet so we have no way of knowing how bad the situation is. All we know is the money supply is exploding, credit is continuing to rise despite govt reserve ration moves as banks are finding loopholes to lend.

If you think the US is printing $$$, people need to see how much stimulus China has injected- and now the consequences are clear.
So apparently, the rise of China is not that rosy after all, as portrayed in States Times.
 

Cestbon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
If China only 3% or lower grow that will be major impact . No need recession to kill China.
One child policy will kill the CCP because they are more educated and free thinking.
In next 2 decade maybe there will be political change to democracy. CCP one party and maybe few opposition party.
 

Sideswipe

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
As the economy rises, Chinese will get more educated and the CCP might be overthrown sooner or later, after most of the Chinese are exposed to democracy.

economy rises, Chinese peoples in general will have better lives.

when was the last govt regime to get toppled in good times? wouldn't they stick with CCP if the country is doing so well.
 

Dreamer1

Alfrescian
Loyal
Fears grow that China is overheating
By Jamil Anderlini and Leslie Hook in Beijing, and Rahul Jacob in Hong Kong

Published: January 20 2011 04:59 | Last updated: January 20 2011 14:58

Concerns the Chinese economy is overheating mounted after offical figures revealed the economy grew faster than expected at the end of last year and inflation remained above target.

Meanwhile, Guangdong added to the fears after China’s biggest provincial economy increased its minimum wage by 18 to 26 per cent, the second big increase in less than a year.


Consumer price inflation, a growing worry for policymakers, fell to 4.6 per cent in December from a more than two-year high of 5.1 per cent the previous month.

However, analysts said the moderation was mostly due to a high base the year before, and that prices would accelerate strongly in the first quarter of this year, complicating efforts to cool the economy without triggering a sharp slowdown.

For the whole year, consumer prices rose 3.3 per cent, above Beijing’s target of 3 per cent. Food prices, the main driver of inflation, rose 7.2 per cent for the year.

“[The economic] growth figures will encourage Beijing to act more decisively on taming inflation, which means more interest rate hikes are just around the corner,” said Qu Hongbin, an economist at HSBC.

The Shanghai Composite, China’s benchmark stock market index, dropped 2.9 per cent on Thursday after release of the data increased fears of impending monetary tightening.

A combination of rising inflation, concerns about social instability and labour shortages in key industrial areas have sparked a series of minimum wage increases across China. Beijing this month increased its minimum wage by 21 per cent. The government hopes raising wages will increase domestic consumption and help it move towards a new growth model less reliant on low-cost manufacturing, exports and investment.

Geoffrey Crothall of the China Labour Bulletin, a Hong Kong-based advocacy group, said the wage hike might not be enough to ease the labour shortages in the province, which accounts for a large percentage of the world’s production of everything from mobile phones to sneakers.

“Workers are very well informed about wages in the next town and in other provinces,” he said. “Their confidence that wages will go higher is rising.”

While concerns about inflation have grown in recent months, Ma Jiantang, commissioner for the National Bureau of Statistics, said the government would control inflation this year.

“We have full confidence that we will control the price level in 2011,” said Mr Ma, adding that China’s seven consecutive years of good harvests meant food prices would be kept under control.

The government has said it would adopt a “prudent” monetary policy this year. Beijing raised the amount banks must hold on reserve with the central bank seven times over the past year and increased interest rates twice in the fourth quarter.

These attempts to rein in extraordinarily loose monetary conditions, in place since the height of the financial crisis two years ago, have only been partially successful. Last year, Chinese banks moved trillions of renminbi in loans off their balance sheets and repackaged them as wealth management products, allowing them to evade the government’s restrictive lending quotas.

On Thursday, the Chinese banking regulator ordered banks to bring an estimated Rmb1,660bn ($252bn) of such off-balance sheet loans back on to their books this year.

The government’s attempts to manage liquidity have been further complicated by non-bank lending in the economy, which regulatory authorities have great difficulty quantifying. A central bank survey released on Thursday found that total non-bank lending in China last year amounted to about Rmb240bn, or 5.6 per cent, of total loans.

However, central bank officials acknowledged that the true scale of informal and underground lending was likely much larger.

China’s economy almost certainly overtook Japan’s last year to become the world’s second-largest after the US, ending more than 40 years for Japan as number two.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2011. You may share using our article tools. Please don't cut articles from FT.com and redistribute by email or post to the web.

Print article Email article
 

Dreamer1

Alfrescian
Loyal
If the commies stick to thier mentor,PAP,then-

PAP always boast that they can grow as much as they want,as much as they can!as fast as Singapore could !
 

Aussie Prick

Alfrescian
Loyal
So apparently, the rise of China is not that rosy after all, as portrayed in States Times.

It will continue to grow. Expect 8-9% growth but the problem is inflation. The economic growth is there but the inflation kills it. In Singapore we had 4.6% inflation in December which is also ruining our economic expansion. Our wages are not keeping up - SG govt cannot allow wages to rise too high to kill competiveness. Our affordability is falling in Singapore so MAS has no choice but to allow S$ appreciation which puts pressure on our exports as raising rates in Singapore will mean the destruction of the property market.
 

NoelVermillion

Alfrescian
Loyal
economy rises, Chinese peoples in general will have better lives.

when was the last govt regime to get toppled in good times? wouldn't they stick with CCP if the country is doing so well.

I was thinking more of as people get more educated, they will become more aware of their government's doings. Corruptions, scandals, kickbacks and etc can no longer be covered up like now. It will be a matter of time that people want a change in their government or at least, the government should be more transparent.

I highly doubt that the CCP will ever be transparent, as quite a significant lot of high-ranked cadres are corrupted. That is where people will demand more accountability and if CCP refuses, a "Web Revolution" will begin first.

My 2 cents view. Cheers.
 

NoelVermillion

Alfrescian
Loyal
It will continue to grow. Expect 8-9% growth but the problem is inflation. The economic growth is there but the inflation kills it. In Singapore we had 4.6% inflation in December which is also ruining our economic expansion. Our wages are not keeping up - SG govt cannot allow wages to rise too high to kill competiveness. Our affordability is falling in Singapore so MAS has no choice but to allow S$ appreciation which puts pressure on our exports as raising rates in Singapore will mean the destruction of the property market.
Whether the PRC be able to maintain its hold on Xinjiang and Tibet in the future is also an issue. Unless PRC halts the education of every minority except the Han Chinese, these minorities will soon be "awakened".

Inflation is also quite a big issue there, as the average man's salary has not risen according to inflation. Time will tell whether these average Joes will be disgruntled enough to protest against their low wages and whether CCP will give in.
 

Einfield

Alfrescian
Loyal
Straits Time (aka Prostitute press, Rank at the bottom on global press freedom) Reporting on China (CCP, another master in lies, deceive, cover ups and window dressing)

What a lethal combination, They are like Husband and Wife.

So apparently, the rise of China is not that rosy after all, as portrayed in States Times.
 

NoelVermillion

Alfrescian
Loyal
Straits Time (aka Prostitute press, Rank at the bottom on global press freedom) Reporting on China (CCP, another master in lies, deceive, cover ups and window dressing)

What a lethal combination, They are like Husband and Wife.
States Times always like to por lumpar the current "king". I still remember how they used to praise US during the 70s - 90s. Basically, whoever old man marks as his perceived "next big thing" will get good comments in States Times.
 
Top