Wing flex test......impressive?
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B787
- Thread starter sadshishamo
- Start date
Impressive and scary man
I am impressed but will upload it again as it is rather small on my PC.
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erection2015
Alfrescian (InfP) + C
those are the kind of aerodynamic forces the wings undergo inflight, so they have to withstand these tests on the ground bro.
Friend had told me about this some time back.
Friend had told me about this some time back.
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yes it does look better this size. It was a much larger picture actually and i had downsized it.
The wings have to flex a significant amount from root to tip. If it is too rigid it could shear off under high stress in turbulent conditions.
The wings have to flex a significant amount from root to tip. If it is too rigid it could shear off under high stress in turbulent conditions.
My first flight on a plane when I was only 14 was sitting next to the wing this scared the hell out of me as I saw the wing moving up and down like flipping and also being lifted up pretty high compare to when it was on ground. In my mind was is this going to give way. Until today, flying around every month, I am still afraid to look out at the wing, give me the creep. Ya I guess I am also swa-gu.
Anyway, AMAZING ENGINEERING
Anyway, AMAZING ENGINEERING
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Many people does not know the high amounts of stress the airframe are subjected to on flights. In hot weather on ground and then within a short period to sub-zero. Obviously some parts of the airframe will suffer from metal-fatigue.
yes aerodynamics is very interesting. I was interested in fluid mechanics when i was younger. I did not follow through and embarked on a career quite different from my interest.
But i have been following developments, although not as much as i would have liked to because of other commitments.
But i have been following developments, although not as much as i would have liked to because of other commitments.
that is correct. The aircraft is subject to all sorts of metal stresses.
1) The wings during flight
2) The landing gear during touchdown
3) The fuselage during the pressurisation cycles.....
...... Just to name the obvious few
That is one of the reasons why SIA sticks to having a young fleet.
1) The wings during flight
2) The landing gear during touchdown
3) The fuselage during the pressurisation cycles.....
...... Just to name the obvious few
That is one of the reasons why SIA sticks to having a young fleet.
Re: B787 Dreamliner fire at Heathrow
Yet another fire. I get the feeling this airliner is cursed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23294760
Yet another fire. I get the feeling this airliner is cursed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23294760
Before they let the 787 back on air. They said they might never find the fault.
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Dreamliner: Boeing 'may never find battery fault cause'
Boeing has admitted that it may never know what caused the battery malfunctions that resulted in all its 787 Dreamliner aircraft being grounded.
The admission came from Boeing's Larry Loftis, the general manager of the company's 787 division.
Replacement battery systems are now being fitted to all 50 Dreamliners that had been in operation with airlines around the world.
Boeing expects the planes to resume service in the coming weeks.
On Friday, US aircraft regulators approved a revamped battery design for the aircraft, paving the way for the fleet to return to the skies.
Speaking at a media briefing in London, Mr Loftis said: "It is possible we will never know the root cause.
"It is not uncommon not to have found the single root cause. So industry best practice is to look at all the potential causes and address all of them."
The groundings of all Dreamliners in January followed two major incidents concerning the plane's two lithium-ion batteries.
Firstly, on 7 January, a battery overheated and started a fire on a Japan Airlines 787 at Boston's Logan International Airport.
Nine days later, an All Nippon Airways 787 had to make an emergency landing in Japan after a battery started to give off smoke.
'Exhaustive study'
The two lithium-ion batteries are not used when the 787 is in flight.
Boeing's Larry Loftis Mr Loftis said Boeing had addressed all "potential causes" and expected the 787 to remain popular
Instead they are operational when the plane is on the ground and its engines are not turned on, and are used to power the aircraft's brakes and lights.
Mr Loftis said Boeing had put 200,000 engineer hours into fixing the problem, with staff working round the clock.
Improved batteries are now being introduced. Mr Loftis explained that the newer batteries did not have to work so hard, and therefore operated at a cooler temperature.
In addition, the new batteries are enclosed in stainless steel boxes which have a ventilation pipe that directly goes to the outside of the plane. So Mr Loftis said that any future "rare cases" of battery failure would be "100% contained", with any smoke immediately leaving the plane.
He added: "We did an exhaustive study of potential causes, and addressed all of them. We do feel that with all the work we have done, we have tackled the potential problems."
Expanding production
A total of 300 Boeing engineers, pooled into 10 teams, have now started fitting the replacement batteries and battery systems to the 787s in service around the world, and also to those that have been built by Boeing since January.
Mr Loftis said it would take five days per plane to do the necessary work, and that it would be carried out by the order in which airlines first received the planes. For this reason, Japan's All Nippon Airlines will be the first to get its 787s fixed.
Boeing is likely to release details of how much fixing the battery problem has cost the company when it releases its latest quarterly results on Wednesday.
Mr Loftis said he did not expect the issue to have any lasting negative impact on the popularity of the Dreamliner among either airlines or passengers.
He said that Boeing had continued to make five 787s per month, and that the company was about to increase that to seven, raising output to 10 per month by the end of this year.
It's one of those planes that breaks the mould, taking airliners to a new level technologically, but all of that state-of-the-art kit is what's caused Boeing so much grief.
The 787 is the first airliner to use lithium-ion batteries. They're smaller, lighter, and pack a bigger punch than other batteries, but they have a history of overheating.
Airbus was planning to use them in its new plane, the A350, but has decided against it after watching Boeing struggle to prove they are safe.
The general manager of the Dreamliner programme, Larry Loftis, told me recently that he's seen no compelling reason to move away from lithium-ion, and many compelling reasons to stay with the technology.
Still, Boeing's decision to try something new has cost them hundreds of millions of dollars and put a big dent in their reputation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dreamliner: Boeing 'may never find battery fault cause'
Boeing has admitted that it may never know what caused the battery malfunctions that resulted in all its 787 Dreamliner aircraft being grounded.
The admission came from Boeing's Larry Loftis, the general manager of the company's 787 division.
Replacement battery systems are now being fitted to all 50 Dreamliners that had been in operation with airlines around the world.
Boeing expects the planes to resume service in the coming weeks.
On Friday, US aircraft regulators approved a revamped battery design for the aircraft, paving the way for the fleet to return to the skies.
Speaking at a media briefing in London, Mr Loftis said: "It is possible we will never know the root cause.
"It is not uncommon not to have found the single root cause. So industry best practice is to look at all the potential causes and address all of them."
The groundings of all Dreamliners in January followed two major incidents concerning the plane's two lithium-ion batteries.
Firstly, on 7 January, a battery overheated and started a fire on a Japan Airlines 787 at Boston's Logan International Airport.
Nine days later, an All Nippon Airways 787 had to make an emergency landing in Japan after a battery started to give off smoke.
'Exhaustive study'
The two lithium-ion batteries are not used when the 787 is in flight.
Boeing's Larry Loftis Mr Loftis said Boeing had addressed all "potential causes" and expected the 787 to remain popular
Instead they are operational when the plane is on the ground and its engines are not turned on, and are used to power the aircraft's brakes and lights.
Mr Loftis said Boeing had put 200,000 engineer hours into fixing the problem, with staff working round the clock.
Improved batteries are now being introduced. Mr Loftis explained that the newer batteries did not have to work so hard, and therefore operated at a cooler temperature.
In addition, the new batteries are enclosed in stainless steel boxes which have a ventilation pipe that directly goes to the outside of the plane. So Mr Loftis said that any future "rare cases" of battery failure would be "100% contained", with any smoke immediately leaving the plane.
He added: "We did an exhaustive study of potential causes, and addressed all of them. We do feel that with all the work we have done, we have tackled the potential problems."
Expanding production
A total of 300 Boeing engineers, pooled into 10 teams, have now started fitting the replacement batteries and battery systems to the 787s in service around the world, and also to those that have been built by Boeing since January.
Mr Loftis said it would take five days per plane to do the necessary work, and that it would be carried out by the order in which airlines first received the planes. For this reason, Japan's All Nippon Airlines will be the first to get its 787s fixed.
Boeing is likely to release details of how much fixing the battery problem has cost the company when it releases its latest quarterly results on Wednesday.
Mr Loftis said he did not expect the issue to have any lasting negative impact on the popularity of the Dreamliner among either airlines or passengers.
He said that Boeing had continued to make five 787s per month, and that the company was about to increase that to seven, raising output to 10 per month by the end of this year.
It's one of those planes that breaks the mould, taking airliners to a new level technologically, but all of that state-of-the-art kit is what's caused Boeing so much grief.
The 787 is the first airliner to use lithium-ion batteries. They're smaller, lighter, and pack a bigger punch than other batteries, but they have a history of overheating.
Airbus was planning to use them in its new plane, the A350, but has decided against it after watching Boeing struggle to prove they are safe.
The general manager of the Dreamliner programme, Larry Loftis, told me recently that he's seen no compelling reason to move away from lithium-ion, and many compelling reasons to stay with the technology.
Still, Boeing's decision to try something new has cost them hundreds of millions of dollars and put a big dent in their reputation.
Ethiopian Airlines, whose Dreamliner caught fire at Heathrow Airport on Friday, was the first operator to resume flights of the 787.
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Nigger life is so cheap, they are the first to resume flights, let them be the guinea pigs.
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Nigger life is so cheap, they are the first to resume flights, let them be the guinea pigs.
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LONDON — Two Boeing 787 Dreamliner planes ran into trouble in England on Friday, with a fire on one temporarily shutting down Heathrow Airport and an unspecified technical issue forcing another to turn back to Manchester Airport.
The incidents are unwelcome news for Chicago-based Boeing Co., whose Dreamliners were cleared to fly again in April after a four-month grounding due to concerns about overheating batteries.
The fire at Heathrow involved an empty Ethiopian Airlines plane, which was parked at a remote stand of the airport after arriving at the airport. British police said the fire is being treated as unexplained, and that there were no passengers on board at the time of the fire. Heathrow's runways reopened after about an hour.
Boeing spokesman Marc Birtel said in an email that the company had personnel on the ground at Heathrow and that the company "is working to fully understand and address" the situation.
The U.S. National Transportation Safety Board said Friday that it was sending a representative to London to assist British authorities with their investigation of the fire.
Ethiopian Airlines was the first airline to resume using the 787, with a flight on April 27 from Ethiopia's capital of Addis Ababa to Nairobi, Kenya, after the battery incidents.
The registration number of the plane at Heathrow -ET-AOP - is the same as the aircraft used in the April 27 flight. Randy Tinseth, vice-president of marketing for Boeing's commercial unit, was on that initial flight and said that it "left on time, landed early and was truly perfect."
Ethiopian Airlines could not immediately be reached for comment after Friday's incident, and it was not clear how long the plane had been parked at its remote stand.
Soon after the fire at Heathrow, U.K. tour operator Thomson Airways confirmed that one of its Boeing 787 Dreamliner planes travelling from England to the U.S. had to turn back after experiencing a technical issue.
Thomson said that flight 126 travelling from Manchester Airport to Sanford, Florida had returned to Manchester "as a precautionary measure."
It did not specify the nature of the technical issue, but said all 291 passengers had disembarked from the plane and engineers are inspecting the aircraft.
Richard Aboulafia, an analyst with the Teal Group Corporation, said it was too early to comment about the fire at Heathrow except that this is "not a welcome development" for Boeing.
While it was unclear what caused either incident, investors fear that Boeing's lithium-ion batteries could again be the culprit. Shares in the aerospace company were down 4.9 percent to $99.58 in afternoon on news of the Heathrow fire.
Television images showed nearly a dozen fire trucks on the scene at Heathrow and firefighters standing around the Ethiopian Airlines plane.
Fire-retardant foam appeared to have been sprayed. What appeared to be some scorch marks were visible at the rear of the plane, in front of the tail.
The Dreamliner suffered battery incidents in January, including an emergency landing of one plane and a fire on another. U.S. federal authorities lifted the grounding order on April 19, and several airlines have recently resumed flying their Dreamliners.
None of the incidents caused any serious injuries. But the January grounding embarrassed Boeing and disrupted schedules at the eight airlines that were flying the planes. The company had delivered 50 of the planes worldwide.
Boeing never did figure out the root cause of the battery incidents. Instead, it redesigned the battery and its charger. The changes included more heat insulation between each cell and charging the battery to a lower maximum voltage.
The incidents are unwelcome news for Chicago-based Boeing Co., whose Dreamliners were cleared to fly again in April after a four-month grounding due to concerns about overheating batteries.
The fire at Heathrow involved an empty Ethiopian Airlines plane, which was parked at a remote stand of the airport after arriving at the airport. British police said the fire is being treated as unexplained, and that there were no passengers on board at the time of the fire. Heathrow's runways reopened after about an hour.
Boeing spokesman Marc Birtel said in an email that the company had personnel on the ground at Heathrow and that the company "is working to fully understand and address" the situation.
The U.S. National Transportation Safety Board said Friday that it was sending a representative to London to assist British authorities with their investigation of the fire.
Ethiopian Airlines was the first airline to resume using the 787, with a flight on April 27 from Ethiopia's capital of Addis Ababa to Nairobi, Kenya, after the battery incidents.
The registration number of the plane at Heathrow -ET-AOP - is the same as the aircraft used in the April 27 flight. Randy Tinseth, vice-president of marketing for Boeing's commercial unit, was on that initial flight and said that it "left on time, landed early and was truly perfect."
Ethiopian Airlines could not immediately be reached for comment after Friday's incident, and it was not clear how long the plane had been parked at its remote stand.
Soon after the fire at Heathrow, U.K. tour operator Thomson Airways confirmed that one of its Boeing 787 Dreamliner planes travelling from England to the U.S. had to turn back after experiencing a technical issue.
Thomson said that flight 126 travelling from Manchester Airport to Sanford, Florida had returned to Manchester "as a precautionary measure."
It did not specify the nature of the technical issue, but said all 291 passengers had disembarked from the plane and engineers are inspecting the aircraft.
Richard Aboulafia, an analyst with the Teal Group Corporation, said it was too early to comment about the fire at Heathrow except that this is "not a welcome development" for Boeing.
While it was unclear what caused either incident, investors fear that Boeing's lithium-ion batteries could again be the culprit. Shares in the aerospace company were down 4.9 percent to $99.58 in afternoon on news of the Heathrow fire.
Television images showed nearly a dozen fire trucks on the scene at Heathrow and firefighters standing around the Ethiopian Airlines plane.
Fire-retardant foam appeared to have been sprayed. What appeared to be some scorch marks were visible at the rear of the plane, in front of the tail.
The Dreamliner suffered battery incidents in January, including an emergency landing of one plane and a fire on another. U.S. federal authorities lifted the grounding order on April 19, and several airlines have recently resumed flying their Dreamliners.
None of the incidents caused any serious injuries. But the January grounding embarrassed Boeing and disrupted schedules at the eight airlines that were flying the planes. The company had delivered 50 of the planes worldwide.
Boeing never did figure out the root cause of the battery incidents. Instead, it redesigned the battery and its charger. The changes included more heat insulation between each cell and charging the battery to a lower maximum voltage.
Japanese Pilots Worry About Repaired Boeing 787 Jets
TOKYO — As Boeing’s 787 Dreamliner returns to the skies, Japanese pilots are nervous about whether they would receive enough warning about any hazards with the jetliner’s new battery system.
Toshikazu Nagasawa, the director at the Air Line Pilots’ Association of Japan, said on Tuesday that some pilots remained concerned about the changes Boeing made to the 787’s lithium-ion batteries after two incidents involving smoke or fire led to the grounding of the fleet early this year.
Mr. Nagasawa said the pilots were also dismayed that Boeing did not adjust its cockpit displays to provide more substantial alerts if the batteries started to overheat.
Boeing officials acknowledged in interviews that they had not expanded the alerts. But they said the new battery system virtually eliminated the chance of fire or any risk to the plane. Safety regulators in the United States and Japan, and the eight airlines flying the jets, have signed off on the changes.
Two Japanese airlines, All Nippon Airways and Japan Airlines, own 27 of the 57 Dreamliners now in service. Officials at each airline said they trusted the battery repairs, and a Japan Airlines spokesman said the airline was still trying to assuage the pilots’ concerns.
The two battery incidents, both in mid-January, involved a fire on a Japan Airlines 787 parked in Boston and a smoking battery that forced an All Nippon jet to make an emergency landing in Japan.
Regulators in the United States and Japan have still not pinpointed the cause of the problems, though it is clear that the fire on the Boston plane started with a short circuit that spread through all eight of the cells on one of the plane’s batteries.
To get the planes back in the air, Boeing changed the battery manufacturing process to reduce the chances for a short circuit and added better insulation to keep a short in one cell from spreading. It also added a stainless steel box to encase the batteries and minimize the chances of a fire. And, as a last resort, it created titanium tubing to vent any hazardous residue from the plane.
“Boeing says that any battery fire will now go out on its own, so there’s no safety issue,” Mr. Nagasawa, the Japanese pilots’ union leader, said in an interview. “But that’s on paper. No pilot would ever want to keep flying with a fire on board, whether it’s in a metal box or not.”
Mike Sinnett, a Boeing vice president and the chief project engineer for the 787, said in an interview that the metal case would minimize the amount of oxygen near the battery to prevent a fire.
Boeing also received support Tuesday from the Air Line Pilots Association in the United States.
“A.L.P.A. is very satisfied with the B787 product improvements, and we have not heard any concerns from our members,” the union said in a statement.
The Japanese pilots first expressed their concerns in meetings with Boeing engineers in Tokyo in late March. Several pilots from All Nippon Airways raised about 30 safety concerns, according to a written account provided by the union.
Other more recent problems with the planes have added to the worries and irritated Japanese officials.
A loose fastener on an electrical panel caused a small part of that panel to char last month, though that occurred on a test flight without paying customers. On Sunday, two days after the Japanese airlines resumed 787 passenger flights, a sensor that detects uneven pressures near the batteries malfunctioned on one jet, forcing Japan Airlines to change planes for a flight to Beijing.
Mr. Sinnett said both problems were caused by maintenance errors by Boeing personnel. But Akihiro Ota, the Japanese transport minister, rebuked Boeing and Japan Airlines on Tuesday for the latest blunder. That the companies “failed to take all possible safety measures is deplorable,” Mr. Ota told reporters.
The 787 carries two lithium-ion batteries. The main battery provides backup power for the cockpit displays. The other battery starts a small engine that provides power to the plane on the ground.
According to the memorandum describing the meeting with Boeing in March, the Japanese pilots expressed concern that they would receive only a general warning of a battery malfunction, with no indication of its severity. The pilots were also worried about whether Boeing had provided enough proof that the jets could fly safely if the batteries failed.
Mr. Sinnett said on Tuesday that the planes had multiple backup systems and could still fly if the batteries failed.
He said the cockpit alerts were ranked in descending order by urgency — as warnings, cautions, advisories or status notices. He said that various problems with the batteries would only set off an advisory or status alert.
He added that the airlines had not asked Boeing to upgrade the alert system
TOKYO — As Boeing’s 787 Dreamliner returns to the skies, Japanese pilots are nervous about whether they would receive enough warning about any hazards with the jetliner’s new battery system.
Toshikazu Nagasawa, the director at the Air Line Pilots’ Association of Japan, said on Tuesday that some pilots remained concerned about the changes Boeing made to the 787’s lithium-ion batteries after two incidents involving smoke or fire led to the grounding of the fleet early this year.
Mr. Nagasawa said the pilots were also dismayed that Boeing did not adjust its cockpit displays to provide more substantial alerts if the batteries started to overheat.
Boeing officials acknowledged in interviews that they had not expanded the alerts. But they said the new battery system virtually eliminated the chance of fire or any risk to the plane. Safety regulators in the United States and Japan, and the eight airlines flying the jets, have signed off on the changes.
Two Japanese airlines, All Nippon Airways and Japan Airlines, own 27 of the 57 Dreamliners now in service. Officials at each airline said they trusted the battery repairs, and a Japan Airlines spokesman said the airline was still trying to assuage the pilots’ concerns.
The two battery incidents, both in mid-January, involved a fire on a Japan Airlines 787 parked in Boston and a smoking battery that forced an All Nippon jet to make an emergency landing in Japan.
Regulators in the United States and Japan have still not pinpointed the cause of the problems, though it is clear that the fire on the Boston plane started with a short circuit that spread through all eight of the cells on one of the plane’s batteries.
To get the planes back in the air, Boeing changed the battery manufacturing process to reduce the chances for a short circuit and added better insulation to keep a short in one cell from spreading. It also added a stainless steel box to encase the batteries and minimize the chances of a fire. And, as a last resort, it created titanium tubing to vent any hazardous residue from the plane.
“Boeing says that any battery fire will now go out on its own, so there’s no safety issue,” Mr. Nagasawa, the Japanese pilots’ union leader, said in an interview. “But that’s on paper. No pilot would ever want to keep flying with a fire on board, whether it’s in a metal box or not.”
Mike Sinnett, a Boeing vice president and the chief project engineer for the 787, said in an interview that the metal case would minimize the amount of oxygen near the battery to prevent a fire.
Boeing also received support Tuesday from the Air Line Pilots Association in the United States.
“A.L.P.A. is very satisfied with the B787 product improvements, and we have not heard any concerns from our members,” the union said in a statement.
The Japanese pilots first expressed their concerns in meetings with Boeing engineers in Tokyo in late March. Several pilots from All Nippon Airways raised about 30 safety concerns, according to a written account provided by the union.
Other more recent problems with the planes have added to the worries and irritated Japanese officials.
A loose fastener on an electrical panel caused a small part of that panel to char last month, though that occurred on a test flight without paying customers. On Sunday, two days after the Japanese airlines resumed 787 passenger flights, a sensor that detects uneven pressures near the batteries malfunctioned on one jet, forcing Japan Airlines to change planes for a flight to Beijing.
Mr. Sinnett said both problems were caused by maintenance errors by Boeing personnel. But Akihiro Ota, the Japanese transport minister, rebuked Boeing and Japan Airlines on Tuesday for the latest blunder. That the companies “failed to take all possible safety measures is deplorable,” Mr. Ota told reporters.
The 787 carries two lithium-ion batteries. The main battery provides backup power for the cockpit displays. The other battery starts a small engine that provides power to the plane on the ground.
According to the memorandum describing the meeting with Boeing in March, the Japanese pilots expressed concern that they would receive only a general warning of a battery malfunction, with no indication of its severity. The pilots were also worried about whether Boeing had provided enough proof that the jets could fly safely if the batteries failed.
Mr. Sinnett said on Tuesday that the planes had multiple backup systems and could still fly if the batteries failed.
He said the cockpit alerts were ranked in descending order by urgency — as warnings, cautions, advisories or status notices. He said that various problems with the batteries would only set off an advisory or status alert.
He added that the airlines had not asked Boeing to upgrade the alert system
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