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Chitchat Qualified lawyers told to become Para-Legals because they can't get a job

chootchiew

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Lawyer is 1 of the most Ill gotten job. In fact it is redundant. All laws are stated. If can play with law why need to state laws. Which is which ? Trying to con human ?
 

JohnTan

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
It's an open secret that most lawyers make good money. That's why I want at least one of my children to read law at Cambridge or Oxford. Haven't you read John Grisham's novels?
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Just ask Shanmugam how many foreigners lawyers were allowed in. Singapore is becoming a public toilet where everyone has access and we end up cleaning it every day. He is an SC, the second longest serving MP after the PM and now the Minister of Law. One would think that he of all people would look after the interest of the professions for this country. As an MP of the ruling govt and having held the positions for 28 years, what was he ding all these years. If this guy was running a Zoo as career he can be forgiven about not knowing about the law profession.
 

JohnTan

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Just ask Shanmugam how many foreigners lawyers were allowed in. Singapore is becoming a public toilet where everyone has access and we end up cleaning it every day. He is an SC, the second longest serving MP after the PM and now the Minister of Law. One would think that he of all people would look after the interest of the professions for this country. As an MP of the ruling govt and having held the positions for 28 years, what was he ding all these years. If this guy was running a Zoo as career he can be forgiven about not knowing about the law profession.

If we let in foreign engineers, technicians, architects and doctors, there's no reason why we shouldn't admit foreign lawyers too. They could be cheaper, better and faster than local lawyers.

Now with Grab and Uber, we are also having foreign taxi drivers who ply our streets.
 

Ed Chigliak

Alfrescian
Loyal
"sit around", *shake legs"

It is good to reminiscent about the good old days. You know..when we looked down with disdain on the bloody Mats. We said they were slackers, sit around under the flat, kick football, play guitar..and yes.. shake legs.

Guess what? This is the Y2016, and we now have the rest of the Singaporean idiots suggesting that its a good idea to sit around and shake legs as a job is beneath his/her status.

And you morons don't have the foggiest clue as to why your country is swamped with mediocre Foreign talents. Classic.

Mark my words. Eventually you and your descendants will all be:-

1. taxi drivers (male ones ..after doing the 2years of NS)
2. whores (female ones..after doing their 2 years of SPGing).
3. Those who don't fall in the above two will be collecting cardboard boxes or selling tissue paper/used panties.



What a stupid suggestion. I would rather sit around and shake legs rather than degrade myself by being a Para-Legal, which is another nicer sounding term for a half-fark lawyer.

http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/cj-announces-committee-tackle-lawyer-oversupply-situation

:kma:
 

Balls2U

Alfrescian
Loyal
"sit around", *shake legs"

It is good to reminiscent about the good old days. You know..when we looked down with disdain on the bloody Mats. We said they were slackers, sit around under the flat, kick football, play guitar..and yes.. shake legs.

Guess what? This is the Y2016, and we now have the rest of the Singaporean idiots suggesting that its a good idea to sit around and shake legs as a job is beneath his/her status.

And you morons don't have the foggiest clue as to why your country is swamped with mediocre Foreign talents. Classic.

Mark my words. Eventually you and your descendants will all be:-

1. taxi drivers (male ones ..after doing the 2years of NS)
2. whores (female ones..after doing their 2 years of SPGing).
3. Those who don't fall in the above two will be collecting cardboard boxes or selling tissue paper/used panties.

If I am an uneducated ah beng or someone with a general degree, I would of course be prepared to slog it out. But if I'm a qualified professional awyer, why the fark should I accept a lower position, where a diploma holder can hold? I would wait till I find a firm that is willing to take me in, or start my own firm.
 

Asterix

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Be an index futures day trader
Today made HKD 12K for two hours work
Could have been at least thrice
If only me stuck to original scalp and swing
Position trading really sucks
 

gatehousethetinkertailor

Alfrescian
Loyal
Just ask Shanmugam how many foreigners lawyers were allowed in.

The issue here is not about admission of foreign lawyers. Those admitted as "foreign lawyers" are working on transactions governed by English/US law. Adversarial work is typically arbitral and the plan for Singapore to be an arbitration hub is more than a decade in the making. If you look at the list of arbitrators from the SIAC these are the usual bigwigs from Singapore.

The issue is what to do with new Singaporean law graduates who need to fulflll training requirements in order to qualify for admission to the Singapore Bar and what to do with them if they cant get associate roles afterwards.

"A new committee has been set up to review the system by which new lawyers start their careers, in a bid to tackle the oversupply of lawyers here...its task is to do a "root and branch" review of how undergraduates are offered training contracts by local law firms, as well as how they are assessed to be suitable for retention and employment." - See more at: https://www.gov.sg/news/content/the...versupply-of-new-lawyers#sthash.FB7gLHoR.dpuf

It is not an oversupply of "lawyers" but an oversupply of law graduates that is the primary issue which then leads of lack of training contracts or even if they have secured a training contract, lack of retention opportunities as newly qualified Associates.

Foreign lawyers (except those who have the requisite years of experience as practising lawyers (typically as partners) who still need to make a formal admission to the Ministry of Law) are not admitted to the Singapore Bar by just turning up here - those foreign lawyers are typically transaction lawyers working on deals governed by English law and do not need Singapore law qualifications to do so.

The challenge seems to be that by expanding the number of local tertiary institutions that offer law as a course of study and recognition of their degrees plus those who study in the UK, US and Australia, the local law firms do not want to give them training contracts/pupillages. Even for those that complete pupillage, there seems to be a reluctance on the part of the law firms to actually give them Associate roles so they can start practising as lawyers. Now depending on the area you end up with, starting out as a junior Associate it is a pretty crappy existence - literally all-nighters, you are at the mercy of the partner/practice and the usual rivalry/envy of other associates and the partners against each other.

If you are in your 20s, you can write off any notion of "me" time because you are worked real and slogged. There is no such thing as finishing at 6,7,8,9pm - weekends are not yours either. Why? Because of the noose known as "billable hours" i.e. your minimum targets of work per month. I've heard of some foreign firm that send a red alert when you don't make the hours for the month. The partners are also pressured to meet their yearly targets and it is in their interests to do so if they already have equity. If they are merely salaried partners it is pretty crappy still because you are still bound by billable targets and no matter how much you bill you get a fixed sum. And you are under constant pressure to bring in a new book of business. And even if you have equity but you are not bringing in the business you can be asked to leave altogether. But this is not the area of concern - it really is the knock on effects of previously policy shifts regarding the profession.

So if the partners can squeeze their associates for every minute of the day in order to meet their targets, their is no real incentive to bring more bodies on board. And obviously the young ones get burnt out and some just leave the profession which is functioning like any other business. The much smaller practices including the one-man shops have no incentive to hire associates either because that means money out of their pocket.


The territoriality of the local firms is on the ability to advice on Singapore law matters and if more foreign companies (not law firms that is) set up here, then there is potential for local work but in reality the mainstay of these firms is regional work using Singapore as a reliably stable services hub. The problem of oversupply of lawyers is not unique to Singapore as the UK also has the same problem. Many study law as a degree, do the professional exams and can't get the training needed so end up with paper qualifications that do not let them enter a career or profession.

The foreign lawyers here are typically UK, US and Aussie qualified and they are not engaged in local work at all. If a local graduate has similar qualifications then they have as much an opportunity but the hours are even worse and the trek to partnership is much longer.

THe irony is that many of those who feel insulted by the notion of working as paralegals will eventually abandon the legal profession altogether and move in-house because they wont be able to adapt to the reality of what the profession actually is.




P.S> About six months ago....makes you wonder how they are going to get all these additional graduates to qualify as practitioners:

http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/criminal-family-law-need-more-practitioners-indranee

Criminal, family law need more practitioners to meet demand: Indranee

SINGAPORE — The criminal and family law practice areas are seeing a “hollowing out”, and more practitioners will be needed to meet the sustained demand, said Senior Minister of State for Law Indranee Rajah.

While it has been flagged that the legal sector here faces an impending glut of lawyers because of returning overseas graduates, Ms Indranee trotted out statistics to illustrate the crunch in criminal and family lawyers.

UniSIM law school to enrol first student batch in 2017

There are 1,600 such specialists now, of which roughly 10 per cent (170) are over the age of 65. Over the next decade, an average of 30 each year will be over 65 of age.

Given the upcoming shortage of these practitioners — compounded by the trend of lawyers venturing into other practice areas or leaving legal practice after a few years — there will be a problem if supply is not boosted through the setting up of the third law school, said Ms Indranee, during a press conference on the third law school that will have its first intake next year.

In 2014, Law Minister K Shanmugam asked aspiring lawyers to temper their expectations in terms of pay and job opportunities, noting that the spurt in the number of Singaporeans reading law overseas could result in an oversupply in the coming years. His comments sparked questions on why the Government is still going ahead with setting up the third law school — even though it will be focusing on producing family and criminal lawyers, which is traditionally shunned by graduates because it is harder work and less lucrative.

Each year, the National University of Singapore, Singapore Management University and overseas institutions produce over 700 law graduates. Last year, there were 310 overseas law graduates.

In illustrating the demand for criminal and family lawyers today (Feb 16), Ms Indranee, who chaired a committee on the establishment of the third law school, said the enhanced Criminal Legal Aid Scheme benefitted up to 6,000 litigants.

Her committee member, Senior Counsel Narayanan Sreenivasan, also said graduates from this school will be filling gaps in the criminal and family law practice areas, instead of flooding the market.

"It is a structural issue (and) not just a numbers game,” he added.

Criminal and family lawyers interviewed said it remains to be seen if the third law school will offset the attrition, citing the demanding nature of such work.

Noting that the school is targetting career switchers as students, the relatively poorer pay in these practice areas may push these graduates into other areas if they have families to take care of, said Mr Amolat Singh. Anecdotally, graduates typically leave these practice areas after two to four years, lawyers said.

Veteran criminal lawyer Edmond Pereira, 66, who has been practising for the last four decades, said that passion is key to stay the course in criminal law.

“It can be a demanding call ... So you really need to have the passion for criminal law, to want to help and to see justice prevailed for the accused,” he added.

Family lawyer Rajan Chettair of Rajan Chettiar law firm also said these UniSIM graduates may not be immune to competition for jobs.

“It could also be very competitive ... as an employer, I am uncertain whether to hire the young law graduate or mature law graduate as cost is of concern,” he added.

Nevertheless, Ms Latifah Hassan, 32, who has been a paralegal for 12 years, is still keen to give it a go at the UniSIM law school. She missed out on applying to read law when she was younger because of financial constraints.

“I see my colleagues and bosses handling these cases while I attend mediation hearings ... I am keen to learn and do more to help families and children to resolve their issues,” she said.
 
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dr.wailing

Alfrescian
Loyal
@ scroobal

Thanks for providing the background to the issue at hand.

The issue is what to do with new Singaporean law graduates who need to fulflll training requirements in order to qualify for admission to the Singapore Bar and what to do with them if they cant get associate roles afterwards.......

It is not an oversupply of "lawyers" but an oversupply of law graduates that is the primary issue which then leads of lack of training contracts or even if they have secured a training contract, lack of retention opportunities as newly qualified Associates.

Wasn't it your Chief Natural Aristocrat a/k/a Prime Ministar claimed that the PAP was the best political party to govern the country and to provide economic growth year after year? Did he threaten your fellow countrymen that if they voted the opposition to power, economic growth would decline and more job losses would occur?

As I see it, the current issue arises because of bad policy decisions made by incompetent natural aristocrats and the elite. They can't even manage a city-state well whose land area is smaller than London, Paris or Beijing.

THe irony is that many of those who feel insulted by the notion of working as paralegals will eventually abandon the legal profession altogether and move in-house because they wont be able to adapt to the reality of what the profession actually is.

The IRONY is these law graduates continue to support and vote the PAP who continue to fcuk them.
 

Bigfuck

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Sham is a failure lah. The best law meted out is by a machine the counts the verdict based on score. All laws can be give a value and weighted. A computer is more consistent in the verdict than Sham. Equity should only come into play as the final moderation, not twisting and turning in words the people like Sham cannot understand. It will be the fairest law system in the world. But can Singapore be a technocracy when you have failed LBW who claims to be an engineer based on toilet
paper?
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
My understanding is that foreign law firms operating in Singapore are allowed to take in staff ( I use the term staff as they not required to meet any local conditions and do not engage in local law practices) but they have been qualified for example in the UK and admitted to the Bar for England and Wales. MOM has given them EP and many have gone on to take PR and then Part A & B, plus 6 mths training all done with the JV local partner.

I am not referring to foreign lawyers who have been given limited registration for foreign lawyers. Recently they excluded 8 of the 19 UK universities from recognition if they enrol from 2016 as they expected oversupply but MOM has not plugged the UK, Australian, and other foreign lawyers who are in these law firms and these are young lawyers who do the grunt work and gain valuable experience. I understand that 50% of those admitted to the bar in 2015 came from UK/Aus and they are local. Some of them have been admitted to the English/ Wales Bar. Why can't the the foreign law firms operating in Singapore take them.

Point taken about shortage of training spaces. To me that should be a relatively an easy fix if the authorities mandate training by firms on a quota basis Its only fair as all of them benefitted from previous training.

Correct me if I got the first 2 paras wrong.


The issue here is not about admission of foreign lawyers. Those admitted as "foreign lawyers" are working on transactions governed by English/US law. Adversarial work is typically arbitral and the plan for Singapore to be an arbitration hub is more than a decade in the making. If you look at the list of arbitrators from the SIAC these are the usual bigwigs from Singapore.

The issue is what to do with new Singaporean law graduates who need to fulflll training requirements in order to qualify for admission to the Singapore Bar and what to do with them if they cant get associate roles afterwards.

"A new committee has been set up to review the system by which new lawyers start their careers, in a bid to tackle the oversupply of lawyers here...its task is to do a "root and branch" review of how undergraduates are offered training contracts by local law firms, as well as how they are assessed to be suitable for retention and employment." - See more at: https://www.gov.sg/news/content/the...versupply-of-new-lawyers#sthash.FB7gLHoR.dpuf

It is not an oversupply of "lawyers" but an oversupply of law graduates that is the primary issue which then leads of lack of training contracts or even if they have secured a training contract, lack of retention opportunities as newly qualified Associates.

Foreign lawyers (except those who have the requisite years of experience as practising lawyers (typically as partners) who still need to make a formal admission to the Ministry of Law) are not admitted to the Singapore Bar by just turning up here - those foreign lawyers are typically transaction lawyers working on deals governed by English law and do not need Singapore law qualifications to do so.

The challenge seems to be that by expanding the number of local tertiary institutions that offer law as a course of study and recognition of their degrees plus those who study in the UK, US and Australia, the local law firms do not want to give them training contracts/pupillages. Even for those that complete pupillage, there seems to be a reluctance on the part of the law firms to actually give them Associate roles so they can start practising as lawyers. Now depending on the area you end up with, starting out as a junior Associate it is a pretty crappy existence - literally all-nighters, you are at the mercy of the partner/practice and the usual rivalry/envy of other associates and the partners against each other.

If you are in your 20s, you can write off any notion of "me" time because you are worked real and slogged. There is no such thing as finishing at 6,7,8,9pm - weekends are not yours either. Why? Because of the noose known as "billable hours" i.e. your minimum targets of work per month. I've heard of some foreign firm that send a red alert when you don't make the hours for the month. The partners are also pressured to meet their yearly targets and it is in their interests to do so if they already have equity. If they are merely salaried partners it is pretty crappy still because you are still bound by billable targets and no matter how much you bill you get a fixed sum. And you are under constant pressure to bring in a new book of business. And even if you have equity but you are not bringing in the business you can be asked to leave altogether. But this is not the area of concern - it really is the knock on effects of previously policy shifts regarding the profession.

So if the partners can squeeze their associates for every minute of the day in order to meet their targets, their is no real incentive to bring more bodies on board. And obviously the young ones get burnt out and some just leave the profession which is functioning like any other business. The much smaller practices including the one-man shops have no incentive to hire associates either because that means money out of their pocket.


The territoriality of the local firms is on the ability to advice on Singapore law matters and if more foreign companies (not law firms that is) set up here, then there is potential for local work but in reality the mainstay of these firms is regional work using Singapore as a reliably stable services hub. The problem of oversupply of lawyers is not unique to Singapore as the UK also has the same problem. Many study law as a degree, do the professional exams and can't get the training needed so end up with paper qualifications that do not let them enter a career or profession.

The foreign lawyers here are typically UK, US and Aussie qualified and they are not engaged in local work at all. If a local graduate has similar qualifications then they have as much an opportunity but the hours are even worse and the trek to partnership is much longer.

THe irony is that many of those who feel insulted by the notion of working as paralegals will eventually abandon the legal profession altogether and move in-house because they wont be able to adapt to the reality of what the profession actually is.




P.S> About six months ago....makes you wonder how they are going to get all these additional graduates to qualify as practitioners:

http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/criminal-family-law-need-more-practitioners-indranee

Criminal, family law need more practitioners to meet demand: Indranee

SINGAPORE — The criminal and family law practice areas are seeing a “hollowing out”, and more practitioners will be needed to meet the sustained demand, said Senior Minister of State for Law Indranee Rajah.

While it has been flagged that the legal sector here faces an impending glut of lawyers because of returning overseas graduates, Ms Indranee trotted out statistics to illustrate the crunch in criminal and family lawyers.

UniSIM law school to enrol first student batch in 2017

There are 1,600 such specialists now, of which roughly 10 per cent (170) are over the age of 65. Over the next decade, an average of 30 each year will be over 65 of age.

Given the upcoming shortage of these practitioners — compounded by the trend of lawyers venturing into other practice areas or leaving legal practice after a few years — there will be a problem if supply is not boosted through the setting up of the third law school, said Ms Indranee, during a press conference on the third law school that will have its first intake next year.

In 2014, Law Minister K Shanmugam asked aspiring lawyers to temper their expectations in terms of pay and job opportunities, noting that the spurt in the number of Singaporeans reading law overseas could result in an oversupply in the coming years. His comments sparked questions on why the Government is still going ahead with setting up the third law school — even though it will be focusing on producing family and criminal lawyers, which is traditionally shunned by graduates because it is harder work and less lucrative.

Each year, the National University of Singapore, Singapore Management University and overseas institutions produce over 700 law graduates. Last year, there were 310 overseas law graduates.

In illustrating the demand for criminal and family lawyers today (Feb 16), Ms Indranee, who chaired a committee on the establishment of the third law school, said the enhanced Criminal Legal Aid Scheme benefitted up to 6,000 litigants.

Her committee member, Senior Counsel Narayanan Sreenivasan, also said graduates from this school will be filling gaps in the criminal and family law practice areas, instead of flooding the market.

"It is a structural issue (and) not just a numbers game,” he added.

Criminal and family lawyers interviewed said it remains to be seen if the third law school will offset the attrition, citing the demanding nature of such work.

Noting that the school is targetting career switchers as students, the relatively poorer pay in these practice areas may push these graduates into other areas if they have families to take care of, said Mr Amolat Singh. Anecdotally, graduates typically leave these practice areas after two to four years, lawyers said.

Veteran criminal lawyer Edmond Pereira, 66, who has been practising for the last four decades, said that passion is key to stay the course in criminal law.

“It can be a demanding call ... So you really need to have the passion for criminal law, to want to help and to see justice prevailed for the accused,” he added.

Family lawyer Rajan Chettair of Rajan Chettiar law firm also said these UniSIM graduates may not be immune to competition for jobs.

“It could also be very competitive ... as an employer, I am uncertain whether to hire the young law graduate or mature law graduate as cost is of concern,” he added.

Nevertheless, Ms Latifah Hassan, 32, who has been a paralegal for 12 years, is still keen to give it a go at the UniSIM law school. She missed out on applying to read law when she was younger because of financial constraints.

“I see my colleagues and bosses handling these cases while I attend mediation hearings ... I am keen to learn and do more to help families and children to resolve their issues,” she said.
 

gatehousethetinkertailor

Alfrescian
Loyal
My understanding is that foreign law firms operating in Singapore are allowed to take in staff ( I use the term staff as they not required to meet any local conditions and do not engage in local law practices) but they have been qualified for example in the UK and admitted to the Bar for England and Wales. MOM has given them EP and many have gone on to take PR and then Part A & B, plus 6 mths training all done with the JV local partner.

I am not referring to foreign lawyers who have been given limited registration for foreign lawyers. Recently they excluded 8 of the 19 UK universities from recognition if they enrol from 2016 as they expected oversupply but MOM has not plugged the UK, Australian, and other foreign lawyers who are in these law firms and these are young lawyers who do the grunt work and gain valuable experience. I understand that 50% of those admitted to the bar in 2015 came from UK/Aus and they are local. Some of them have been admitted to the English/ Wales Bar. Why can't the the foreign law firms operating in Singapore take them.

Point taken about shortage of training spaces. To me that should be a relatively an easy fix if the authorities mandate training by firms on a quota basis Its only fair as all of them benefitted from previous training.

Correct me if I got the first 2 paras wrong.

I did not want to get into the details on the route to admission but excellent summary! Minor correction though - most of the foreign law associates here from the UK would have been registered as solicitors on the Solicitor's Roll administered by the Solicitor's Regulation Authority as the UK has maintained a split system so only Barristers get "called to the Bar" of England and Wales.

I am not aware of the statistics of these foreign lawyers that have taken the route to be admitted to the Singapore Bar but typically if they are here with the foreign law firms they would already have qualified, fulfilled training requirements and entered practice before moving here.

Trainees on secondment would have been part of a cohort of an annual intake in their home countries so these are very few. As the concern is about getting requisite training for local graduates and then opportunities for them to get jobs as Associates in all fairness it is a tough balancing act as with any business model because if you don't have the work then Associates (local or otherwise) are an expensive undertaking. Singapore graduates studying in the UK have as much a chance to apply for training contracts in the UK and compete for these places. The competition for a spot is just as fierce because it is not purely academic as you would expect. But as I understand singkie law grads prefer coming back to Singapore instead and then add to the swell of graduates here competing for limited places and opportunities with the local firms.

So in answer to your point about the 50% from UK/Australia, the question can also be asked of them - why did they not apply for the training contracts in the UK/Aus and compete for those places like others do. Once qualified as a practitioner it is easier to get admitted in Singapore and the foreign law experience can be leveraged for job opportunities. But then it comes down to the ambitions of these graduates and whether they are realistic in managing their expectations.

The quota route is one option but I doubt local firms would be so magnanimous.
 

apogee

Alfrescian
Loyal
It's an open secret that most lawyers make good money. That's why I want at least one of my children to read law at Cambridge or Oxford. Haven't you read John Grisham's novels?

That is such a dated idea. I told my children that they should not bother to a lawyer or doctor. Just be a government minister. It's easy job and recession proof and good pay.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
My understanding is that many Singaporeans have qualified to practice in the UK specifically and some have spent some years there practising but have found it difficult to enter the the 10 foreign law firms granted QFLP so they are forced into the local law practice. In addition there are about 30 foreign law firms that have offices in Singapore and staff in Singapore that did not apply for or granted QFLP and they too have foreign lawyers ( not allowed to practice Singapore law but give instructions to local law firms) and many of them are young associates who are foreigners that have been granted EP and then PR. This I understand is not controlled by the Law Ministry but MOM.

In addition MNCs and foreign banks have advertised for legally trained positions in areas of compliance, governance, regulatory engagements etc and foreigners with law degrees are recruited. Again MOM have approved these applications. These again need not be admitted to practise Singapore Law but they are legally trained and that training is well sought after for the roles advertised. Should not the preference and priority go to legally trained Singaporeans instead of foreigners.





I did not want to get into the details on the route to admission but excellent summary! Minor correction though - most of the foreign law associates here from the UK would have been registered as solicitors on the Solicitor's Roll administered by the Solicitor's Regulation Authority as the UK has maintained a split system so only Barristers get "called to the Bar" of England and Wales.

I am not aware of the statistics of these foreign lawyers that have taken the route to be admitted to the Singapore Bar but typically if they are here with the foreign law firms they would already have qualified, fulfilled training requirements and entered practice before moving here.

Trainees on secondment would have been part of a cohort of an annual intake in their home countries so these are very few. As the concern is about getting requisite training for local graduates and then opportunities for them to get jobs as Associates in all fairness it is a tough balancing act as with any business model because if you don't have the work then Associates (local or otherwise) are an expensive undertaking. Singapore graduates studying in the UK have as much a chance to apply for training contracts in the UK and compete for these places. The competition for a spot is just as fierce because it is not purely academic as you would expect. But as I understand singkie law grads prefer coming back to Singapore instead and then add to the swell of graduates here competing for limited places and opportunities with the local firms.

So in answer to your point about the 50% from UK/Australia, the question can also be asked of them - why did they not apply for the training contracts in the UK/Aus and compete for those places like others do. Once qualified as a practitioner it is easier to get admitted in Singapore and the foreign law experience can be leveraged for job opportunities. But then it comes down to the ambitions of these graduates and whether they are realistic in managing their expectations.

The quota route is one option but I doubt local firms would be so magnanimous.
 

borom

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Why don't the Singapore Legal Service employ more Locals "Probationary/Cadet/Trainee" Legal Service Officers on 6 months short term contracts-and at the end those who meet their requirements are confirmed as LSO while the rest can be released, but at least , fulfil the practice training period requirement for admission as an advocate and solicitor

Cost?-just think of Youth Olympics, The National Integration Council, PA, scholarships for foreigners ect2- just a bit from these money on foreigners cannot give to struggling locals?
 
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Narong Wongwan

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Asset

gatehousethetinkertailor

Alfrescian
Loyal
My understanding is that many Singaporeans have qualified to practice in the UK specifically and some have spent some years there practising but have found it difficult to enter the the 10 foreign law firms granted QFLP so they are forced into the local law practice. In addition there are about 30 foreign law firms that have offices in Singapore and staff in Singapore that did not apply for or granted QFLP and they too have foreign lawyers ( not allowed to practice Singapore law but give instructions to local law firms) and many of them are young associates who are foreigners that have been granted EP and then PR. This I understand is not controlled by the Law Ministry but MOM.

In addition MNCs and foreign banks have advertised for legally trained positions in areas of compliance, governance, regulatory engagements etc and foreigners with law degrees are recruited. Again MOM have approved these applications. These again need not be admitted to practise Singapore Law but they are legally trained and that training is well sought after for the roles advertised. Should not the preference and priority go to legally trained Singaporeans instead of foreigners.

Thanks for this insight - it all goes back to the same loose immigration policy and the downstream effect on professionals here. It does not seem likely to get any better.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
The focus seems to be annual intake of those admitted to the bar - training places and subsequent placement. I don't think they even considered the use of legal trained Singaporeans that can be placed outside in the commercial World.

I spoke to a friend for an examples of foreigners working in the legal field and he provided this link.
http://www.duanemorris.com/attorneys/babitaambekar.html#tab_Resume

Apparently this UK girl came to Singapore and works in the Singapore JV Office but not listed in the JV Local company website. She has no background in India and she took a module in NUS on Indian Business Law. Not admitted locally but her legal training is paying for her services in Singapore.

Thanks for this insight - it all goes back to the same loose immigration policy and the downstream effect on professionals here. It does not seem likely to get any better.
 

Hans168

Alfrescian
Loyal
It's an open secret that most lawyers make good money. That's why I want at least one of my children to read law at Cambridge or Oxford. Haven't you read John Grisham's novels?

bloodsuckers, sourge of the nation......... what else best describe lawyers???
 
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