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The Elected Presidency Dilemma

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
As the deliberation of the Constitutional Commission on the EP is underway, I could not help notice that some of those who contributed their views had some novel ideas - 4 man GRC with one minority candidate, 2 man team with one 1 minority candidate to rotate half the term, etc. It just reflects the bind that we are in because old man felt that the country should have safety value in the event of freak election. The main issue stumping everyone is how to get a Malay candidate in without being considered a token as this is one of the 3 terms of references of the Commission.

The Commission is also hamstrung by the fact that their remit is limited to the 3 items to consider and nothing outside. So they cannot come out with the best possible model but only one that is framed by the PM.

To be frank, the only reason why we need to retain an Elected Presidential model is out of respect to the old man who obviously did not think this trough. It was not to be political office but an elected office, and there is a distinction here. The requirement is that candidate for EP must not be a member of a political party. Unfortunately Tan Jee Say carried over the GE campaigning of 2011 into the EP. And it became a farce and to be fair in a tight race, most candidates with a political background will do exactly that.

So what are the likely scenarios that will emerge from this hamstrung commission? I reckon the following possibilities;

1. A run-off provision will be introduced to ensure that any successful candidate has 51% of the votes cast. This is to avoid the embarrassing situation that Tony Tan is in and to make it attractive to future potential candidates of good standing. No sane person with good credentials is going to run for EP in its current form.

2. A race based formula to slate an minority only EP elections if 2 consecutive terms are won by a Chinese candidate or something similar

3. One thing is certain, the current powers will be significantly reduced for the ironical reason of a freak election.

None of the above is ideal but face is important as the son is not going to admit that old man got it so wrong. The ideal is to revert back to that of nominated President with nominal head of state role and functions. Yusof Ishak, Sheares and Wee Kim Wee did an excellent job and we all remembered them for it.
 

aurvandil

Alfrescian
Loyal
My prediction

1) It will be changed to a President + Vice President system.
2) Either the President or Vice President must belong to a minority race.
3) Both candidates must pass the requisite screening.

This will lock up the EP into PAP hands since only the PAP has minority candidates that can pass screening.
 

Hans168

Alfrescian
Loyal
As the deliberation of the Constitutional Commission on the EP is underway, I could not help notice that some of those who contributed their views had some novel ideas - 4 man GRC with one minority candidate, 2 man team with one 1 minority candidate to rotate half the term, etc. It just reflects the bind that we are in because old man felt that the country should have safety value in the event of freak election. The main issue stumping everyone is how to get a Malay candidate in without being considered a token as this is one of the 3 terms of references of the Commission.

The Commission is also hamstrung by the fact that their remit is limited to the 3 items to consider and nothing outside. So they cannot come out with the best possible model but only one that is framed by the PM.

To be frank, the only reason why we need to retain an Elected Presidential model is out of respect to the old man who obviously did not think this trough. It was not to be political office but an elected office, and there is a distinction here. The requirement is that candidate for EP must not be a member of a political party. Unfortunately Tan Jee Say carried over the GE campaigning of 2011 into the EP. And it became a farce and to be fair in a tight race, most candidates with a political background will do exactly that.

So what are the likely scenarios that will emerge from this hamstrung commission? I reckon the following possibilities;

1. A run-off provision will be introduced to ensure that any successful candidate has 51% of the votes cast. This is to avoid the embarrassing situation that Tony Tan is in and to make it attractive to future potential candidates of good standing. No sane person with good credentials is going to run for EP in its current form.

2. A race based formula to slate an minority only EP elections if 2 consecutive terms are won by a Chinese candidate or something similar

3. One thing is certain, the current powers will be significantly reduced for the ironical reason of a freak election.

None of the above is ideal but face is important as the son is not going to admit that old man got it so wrong. The ideal is to revert back to that of nominated President with nominal head of state role and functions. Yusof Ishak, Sheares and Wee Kim Wee did an excellent job and we all remembered them for it.


Item 2 shud apply to PMship too to give to give minority a shot at it so that higher caliber pple like Danabalan or Tharman can be keeling PeeM too
BUT all these notions funny as they fly in the face of democracy which we are so damn fucking proud of....... or izzit??????????????
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Agree that minority candidates can only come from the PAP camp. I did noet the both the CJ and Chan Heng Chee mentioned that the existing criteria makes many more to be eligible since companies have grown substantially over the 20 years and the pool is now bigger.

My prediction

1) It will be changed to a President + Vice President system.
2) Either the President or Vice President must belong to a minority race.
3) Both candidates must pass the requisite screening.

This will lock up the EP into PAP hands since only the PAP has minority candidates that can pass screening.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Old man put paid to the concept of democracy long time ago. Instead of rigging the polls like what Saddam and other dictators do, old man made sure that he made virtually impossible for the opposition to make government let alone achieve 1/3rd of the seats. The EP is a waste of time. Look at Nathan and Tony Tan, they look as useful as a dick to a eunuch. Ong Teng Cheong made it exciting when he used the powers to ask for details and he never got anything useful back except grief. So it was not even meant to work from the word go.

Item 2 shud apply to PMship too to give to give minority a shot at it so that higher caliber pple like Danabalan or Tharman can be keeling PeeM too
BUT all these notions funny as they fly in the face of democracy which we are so damn fucking proud of....... or izzit??????????????
 

blueRad

Alfrescian
Loyal
The way I look at it, I think it is simply much better to revert to the old way of appointing one. The average Singaporean on the street have not much inkling about the role of the president.

On one hand, PAP need to constantly remind voters on the role of the president. The president is not an MP and he cannot raise and fight for issues in Parliament. On the other hand, the presidential election will inevitably end up resembling like another GE because raising issues is the one of the major way candidates differentiate from one another and the end result is that candidates inevitably deviate from the supposed role of the president. The average Singaporean voter will simply just strum along and vote for an issue orientated president like the previous GE.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
They should just abolished it, but they would not...it is an overpaid SECURITY GUARD ..just like one " coloured one" who was paid millions, just doing that & now they have another of "merit" doing the same job...

I do not believe in the elected president...never voted for any them..."spoilt the vote"....& wasting my time going polling....just get a nominal figurehead & pay that person "nominal" pay....not MILLIONS, we do not need a MILLION DOLLAR SECURITY GUARD..
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
The son is never going to admit his father screwed up. It was flawed from day 1. They had to persuade the retired accountant general to stand against Ong Teng Cheong reluctantly to give the impression that there is a fight.

They should just abolished it, but they would not...it is an overpaid SECURITY GUARD ..just like one " coloured one" who was paid millions, just doing that & now they have another of "merit" doing the same job...

I do not believe in the elected president...never voted for any them..."spoilt the vote"....& wasting my time going polling....just get a nominal figurehead & pay that person "nominal" pay....not MILLIONS, we do not need a MILLION DOLLAR SECURITY GUARD..
 

Debonerman

Alfrescian
Loyal
Old man put paid to the concept of democracy long time ago. Instead of rigging the polls like what Saddam and other dictators do, old man made sure that he made virtually impossible for the opposition to make government let alone achieve 1/3rd of the seats. The EP is a waste of time. Look at Nathan and Tony Tan, they look as useful as a dick to a eunuch. Ong Teng Cheong made it exciting when he used the powers to ask for details and he never got anything useful back except grief. So it was not even meant to work from the word go.

You meant a pussy to a eunuch don't you? I've been thinking. The Ongs, the Fus, the Putacherries children were brought into the Lee fold and prospered because their fathers knelt and said sorry to the Old Man. Says something about LKY's psyche. Both an acknowledgement of the correctness of his way and superiority and he will forgive. Only the hardcore victims of Operation Coldstore especially Chia Thye Poh were immovable. Lim Chin Siong I believe quietly conceded defeat.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Bro, you seem to know about Lim Chin Siong. Yes, Chin Siong after many years agreed to a series of debriefs in the 1980s by ISD. He helped fill the gaps. It was felt that Devan Nair did not want to publish his autobiography primarily because of this.

Yes, thats old man. You kowtow and acknowledge that he was right and he looked after your kids. The ones that stood rock solid were Poh Soo kai, Lim Hock Siew, Chia Thye Poh, Ho Piao and a few others.


You meant a pussy to a eunuch don't you? I've been thinking. The Ongs, the Fus, the Putacherries children were brought into the Lee fold and prospered because their fathers knelt and said sorry to the Old Man. Says something about LKY's psyche. Both an acknowledgement of the correctness of his way and superiority and he will forgive. Only the hardcore victims of Operation Coldstore especially Chia Thye Poh were immovable. Lim Chin Siong I believe quietly conceded defeat.
 

Debonerman

Alfrescian
Loyal
Bro, you seem to know about Lim Chin Siong. Yes, Chin Siong after many years agreed to a series of debriefs in the 1980s by ISD. He helped fill the gaps. It was felt that Devan Nair did not want to publish his autobiography primarily because of this.

Yes, thats old man. You kowtow and acknowledge that he was right and he looked after your kids. The ones that stood rock solid were Poh Soo kai, Lim Hock Siew, Chia Thye Poh, Ho Piao and a few others.

Fong Swee Suan? Together with Ong Pang Boon their passing, the final chapter of the Mafia war years will be finally closed. Forget the Prataman. He was a fat paid dog.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Fong Swee Suan, they could not touch him as he was Malaysian and sent over during Coldstore. The irony is that Ong Pang Boon was the Minister of Home Affairs and signed the detention order of his mates who were with him in University Socialist Club and for the rest of the detainees for Coldstore. Now I understand he took over the mantle from Toh Chin Chye for the Makan Club which includes some of the old detainees.

Fong Swee Suan? Together with Ong Pang Boon their passing, the final chapter of the Mafia war years will be finally closed. Forget the Prataman. He was a fat paid dog.
 

Debonerman

Alfrescian
Loyal
Fong Swee Suan, they could not touch him as he was Malaysian and sent over during Coldstore. The irony is that Ong Pang Boon was the Minister of Home Affairs and signed the detention order of his mates who were with him in University Socialist Club and for the rest of the detainees for Coldstore. Now I understand he took over the mantle from Toh Chin Chye for the Makan Club which includes some of the old detainees.

Have to push up this thread. The albino eunuch is trying to force it down out of sight. Look at him playing MC!.......LOL
 

Jah_rastafar_I

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
As the deliberation of the Constitutional Commission on the EP is underway, I could not help notice that some of those who contributed their views had some novel ideas - 4 man GRC with one minority candidate, 2 man team with one 1 minority candidate to rotate half the term, etc. It just reflects the bind that we are in because old man felt that the country should have safety value in the event of freak election. The main issue stumping everyone is how to get a Malay candidate in without being considered a token as this is one of the 3 terms of references of the Commission.

The Commission is also hamstrung by the fact that their remit is limited to the 3 items to consider and nothing outside. So they cannot come out with the best possible model but only one that is framed by the PM.

To be frank, the only reason why we need to retain an Elected Presidential model is out of respect to the old man who obviously did not think this trough. It was not to be political office but an elected office, and there is a distinction here.

Scrooballs so we need to retain the elected president model cos of old fart but next you say it was not to be political but an elected which means that it is not supposed to be political but elected office yet you say the elected model was used cos of LKY? You see how confusing you are here? Also this from here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Singapore
In January 1991, the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore[SUP][2][/SUP] was amended to provide for the popular election of the President. The creation of the elected presidency was a major constitutional and political change in Singapore's history as, under the revision, the President is empowered to veto the use of government reserves and appointments to key civil service appointments. He or she can also examine the administration's enforcement of the Internal Security Act[SUP][3][/SUP] and Maintenance of Religious Harmony Act,[SUP][4][/SUP] and authorise corruption investigations

Ok so according to you it was due to Old fart who changed the rules in 1991 to make the president an elected body. Am i ask why was it changed in 1991 and not earlier? After all in 1991 the PAP had solidified its power base although it had lost a seat due to JBJ. It's a legit question.


The requirement is that candidate for EP must not be a member of a political party. Unfortunately Tan Jee Say carried over the GE campaigning of 2011 into the EP. And it became a farce and to be fair in a tight race, most candidates with a political background will do exactly that.


Nigger scrooballs you sure it was because of tan jee say and tony tan's period is where they started on presidents being members of a poltical party?
Do you know devan nair? The 3rd president was a PAP member so wtf are you talking here?


So what are the likely scenarios that will emerge from this hamstrung commission? I reckon the following possibilities;

1. A run-off provision will be introduced to ensure that any successful candidate has 51% of the votes cast. This is to avoid the embarrassing situation that Tony Tan is in and to make it attractive to future potential candidates of good standing. No sane person with good credentials is going to run for EP in its current form.

2. A race based formula to slate an minority only EP elections if 2 consecutive terms are won by a Chinese candidate or something similar

3. One thing is certain, the current powers will be significantly reduced for the ironical reason of a freak election.

None of the above is ideal but face is important as the son is not going to admit that old man got it so wrong. The ideal is to revert back to that of nominated President with nominal head of state role and functions. Yusof Ishak, Sheares and Wee Kim Wee did an excellent job and we all remembered them for it.

May i remind you that those 3 suggestions you gave are your own ideas and the govt might not even implement them. Could you perhaps just clarify that with more detail i know you wrote "i reckon". You listed the 3 presidents but you left out devan nair and might i remind you that nair was the 3rd president before wee who is the 4th. Could you explain why you left him out? So nair wasn't nominated but after him wee was nominated was it? But then again nomination only ended in 1991 which was towards the end of Wee's term so pls answer these questions. :rolleyes:
 

bigboss

Alfrescian
Loyal
They should just abolished it, but they would not...it is an overpaid SECURITY GUARD ..just like one " coloured one" who was paid millions, just doing that & now they have another of "merit" doing the same job...

I do not believe in the elected president...never voted for any them..."spoilt the vote"....& wasting my time going polling....just get a nominal figurehead & pay that person "nominal" pay....not MILLIONS, we do not need a MILLION DOLLAR SECURITY GUARD..

...in the not too distant future, a pinoy or a Vietcong or a Burmese, not born in sinkie land, would also want to be the next President based on concept of minority race.
 

MaximiLian

Alfrescian
Loyal
My prediction

1) It will be changed to a President + Vice President system.
2) Either the President or Vice President must belong to a minority race.
3) Both candidates must pass the requisite screening.

This will lock up the EP into PAP hands since only the PAP has minority candidates that can pass screening.

Bookmarked
 

Satyr

Alfrescian
Loyal
The son is never going to admit his father screwed up. It was flawed from day 1. They had to persuade the retired accountant general to stand against Ong Teng Cheong reluctantly to give the impression that there is a fight.

That episode with the retired accountant general was a farce only Singaporeans could watch without laughing. One wonders what would have happened had he won. Imagine telling voters to pick the other guy, please.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
When he was interviewed by the press he actually stated he was not keen but persuaded by Old man to stand and he took it as his duty. He did not campaign except gave a speech on TV. And he got 4 out of 10 votes and OTC despite the immense resources got 6. That should have indicated to the old man that it will collapse sooner rather than later.

That episode with the retired accountant general was a farce only Singaporeans could watch without laughing. One wonders what would have happened had he won. Imagine telling voters to pick the other guy, please.
 

Brightkid

Alfrescian
Loyal
Wayang pave way for HC to be EP when LHL become SM.

Short and sharp. The exceptional family need a handle on the treasures while someone warms the PM seat.
 
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