Shanmugam response to Dominique's death. WTF!

enterprise2 · Mar 29, 2016

This was in ST today.
Question. There are people who said the Mindef did not do enough in Dom's case. Should the Govt have done more?
Answer. The coroner's inquiry was public, ...Is it Mindef's fault that people don't remember what happened two or three years ago? If Mindef tries to explain too much, it will be faced with the charge that it is too defensive...,,the best thing Mindef can do is do what it did, accept that the family is very deeply affected and they don't have legal recourse.

I think it's extremely poor answer and the family is going to be more pissed upon reading this!

Leongsam · Mar 29, 2016

I think it is an excellent answer and reflects the reality of the situation.

In fact it reflects the realities of life.

virus · Mar 29, 2016

Leongsam said:
I think it is an excellent answer and reflects the reality of the situation.

In fact it reflects the realities of life.

So will the parents continue to bolt for sham and his George cronies

Leongsam · Mar 29, 2016

virus said:
So will the parents continue to bolt for sham and his George cronies

Of course they will because when the dust settles they'll realise that despite what has happened the PAP is the best!

Papsmearer · Mar 29, 2016

Leongsam said:
I think it is an excellent answer and reflects the reality of the situation.

In fact it reflects the realities of life.

That is not the reality of life, jackass. Accidents happen all the time. Genuine accidents, and that is acceptable. Lightning hits a soldier out in the field, and he dies, ok. Act of God. But this is not the case. Its the act of 2 idiotic man. Man made premeditated act is not a reality of the situation. They could have just thrown 2 smoke grenades, but they willfully and deliberately threw 6 and killed the kid. does not matter what his pre-existing condition is. They broke the training rules and the end result is the kid died.

Leongsam · Mar 29, 2016

Papsmearer said:
That is not the reality of life, jackass. Accidents happen all the time. Genuine accidents, and that is acceptable. Lightning hits a soldier out in the field, and he dies, ok. Act of God.

Oh yeah? I can bet my bottom dollar that if soldiers were killed by lightning the PAP would cop the blame too.

The pathetic 30% would claim that the training officer should have cancelled the training at the first sign of a brewing storm. The parents would then blame the SAF for putting their precious wussy son in harm's way.

Your comments reveal your shallow grasp of the realities of life.

Patriot · Mar 29, 2016

It's always very easy for the authorities to evade responsibility for gross negligence and mismanagement by brushing aside hard questions and mouthing deep regret and condolence to the aggrieved families of the deceased.

When will they ever learn that the buck stops at the top? They wont, I guess.

This unfortunate trait which is being practised today has been inherited from the past.

Leongsam · Mar 29, 2016

Patriot said:
It's always very easy for the authorities to evade responsibility for gross negligence and mismanagement by brushing aside hard questions and mouthing deep regret and condolence to the aggrieved families of the deceased.

When will they ever learn that the buck stops at the top? They wont, I guess.

This unfortunate trait which is being practised today has been inherited from the past.

There was no evidence whatsoever of gross mismanagement in this case. The soldier had an allergy which the trainers were not made aware of. Had they known they definitely would not have included him in the exercise.

mojito · Mar 29, 2016

Shan is wise indeed. I hope he becomes our next PM.

halsey02 · Mar 29, 2016

Leongsam said:
Oh yeah? I can bet my bottom dollar that if soldiers were killed by lightning the PAP would cop the blame too.

The pathetic 30% would claim that the training officer should have cancelled the training at the first sign of a brewing storm. The parents would then blame the SAF for putting their precious wussy son in harm's way.

Your comments reveal your shallow grasp of the realities of life.

Yes, we would have blamed the PAP, for instance, this happened eons ago....It wasa night field exercise in a cemetery ( a large Hokkien one), now exhumed & flats are on top of it....it was past midnight, winds were howling, rains were coming....there we were on patrol...a lightning bolt came down suddenly & it struck 50m from where I was...struck a tree & it burned....had I moved 50m forward...my parents would have blamed the PAP for putting me there..for SAF is PAP too...

right!....I was my parent's pride & joy..I weren't wussy either...you think they would thank the SAF & PAP....dream on!. :rolleyes:

halsey02 · Mar 29, 2016

enterprise2 said:
This was in ST today.
Question. There are people who said the Mindef did not do enough in Dom's case. Should the Govt have done more?
Answer. The coroner's inquiry was public, ...Is it Mindef's fault that people don't remember what happened two or three years ago? If Mindef tries to explain too much, it will be faced with the charge that it is too defensive...,,the best thing Mindef can do is do what it did, accept that the family is very deeply affected and they don't have legal recourse.

I think it's extremely poor answer and the family is going to be more pissed upon reading this!

Why did they voted for the PAP??....or kept their son here when they have the money & got out...now he is dead & gone...MOVE ON!.

hofmann · Mar 29, 2016

Leongsam said:
There was no evidence whatsoever of gross mismanagement in this case. The soldier had an allergy which the trainers were not made aware of. Had they known they definitely would not have included him in the exercise.

the trainers had breached safety regulations resulting in excessive build up of smoke to lethal levels. the TSR limit of 2 smoke grenades within defined space was developed because the SAF cannot afford to test every soldier for chemical allergies.

shittypore · Mar 29, 2016

enterprise2 said:
This was in ST today.
Question. There are people who said the Mindef did not do enough in Dom's case. Should the Govt have done more?
Answer. The coroner's inquiry was public, ...Is it Mindef's fault that people don't remember what happened two or three years ago? If Mindef tries to explain too much, it will be faced with the charge that it is too defensive...,,the best thing Mindef can do is do what it did, accept that the family is very deeply affected and they don't have legal recourse.

I think it's extremely poor answer and the family is going to be more pissed upon reading this!

Another way of saying, lets move on.

shittypore · Mar 29, 2016

shittypore said:
Another way of saying, lets move on.

If that Capt was GMS, i wonder how wud MID and all the MIW react?

GoldenDragon · Mar 29, 2016

Papsmearer said:
That is not the reality of life, jackass. Accidents happen all the time. Genuine accidents, and that is acceptable. Lightning hits a soldier out in the field, and he dies, ok. Act of God. But this is not the case. Its the act of 2 idiotic man. Man made premeditated act is not a reality of the situation. They could have just thrown 2 smoke grenades, but they willfully and deliberately threw 6 and killed the kid. does not matter what his pre-existing condition is. They broke the training rules and the end result is the kid died.

absolutely agree and i am with you on this. if 2 smoke grenades were thrown and it resulted in the death of a soldier or several of them, fair enough - MINDEF can't be faulted. ditti the capt and major. i hope this is brought up during bb be to remind the voters and all singaporeans that the govt cannot be hiding behind the law.

blueRad · Mar 29, 2016

Training of soldiers always carries a high risk of injury, no different from police or fireman training. SAF can implement all the safety measures they want and death will still inevitably occur. What SAF can do is minimise death as much as possible to the best of their ability.

There is no point in training soldiers if safety is dumbed down to the point that training is no longer realistic. Might as well get Outward Bound school to conduct saf training if that is the case.

shittypore · Mar 29, 2016

blueRad said:
Training of soldiers always carries a high risk of injury, no different from police or fireman training. SAF can implement all the safety measures they want and death will still inevitably occur. What SAF can do is minimise death as much as possible to the best of their ability.

There is no point in training soldiers if safety is dumbed down to the point that training is no longer realistic. Might as well get Outward Bound school to conduct saf training if that is the case.

True, MID shld abolish or burn all its SOP notes on Training and let Officers do as they wish.

GoldenDragon · Mar 29, 2016

If Shan can be trusted, you can use a live tiger to be your pillow and a lion as your bolster.

Leongsam

PTADER · Mar 29, 2016

Leongsam said:
Oh yeah? I can bet my bottom dollar that if soldiers were killed by lightning the PAP would cop the blame too.

The pathetic 30% would claim that the training officer should have cancelled the training at the first sign of a brewing storm. The parents would then blame the SAF for putting their precious wussy son in harm's way.

Your comments reveal your shallow grasp of the realities of life.

As matter of fact, there is a system in place where if the weather status hits or is forecasted to hit what is known as a “CAT-1” category (pointing to lightning threats as Singapore "has one of the highest occurrences of lightning activity in the world"), training has to be postponed or cancelled.

I am sure you will mock this. But it is based on the sound principle of training safety and keeping soldiers alive during training. This is so that they can be alive to fight in real operations for what they have been trained for.

And before you go on, once again this is for peace time training, not operations. I don't believe anyone will give a toss if lightning is striking every second in an actual operation.

PTADER · Mar 29, 2016

enterprise2 said:
This was in ST today.
Question. There are people who said the Mindef did not do enough in Dom's case. Should the Govt have done more?
Answer. The coroner's inquiry was public, ...Is it Mindef's fault that people don't remember what happened two or three years ago? If Mindef tries to explain too much, it will be faced with the charge that it is too defensive...,,the best thing Mindef can do is do what it did, accept that the family is very deeply affected and they don't have legal recourse.

I think it's extremely poor answer and the family is going to be more pissed upon reading this!

Thambi should remind his good friend, Ng Eng Hen, to try to remember the damning Ministerial statement he made "two or three years ago" in Parliament (November 2012) about the soldier's death. He effectively pleaded guilty and buried himself in his own words and in the COI's findings.

He now cunningly refers only to the Coroner's Inquiry's (CI) findings and no longer to the Committee of Inquiry's (COI) findings so as to mislead and hoodwink the public. Through his dishonest and self-serving conduct, he has shown himself to be unworthy and unfit to continue to hold on to the position of the Minister for Defence.

The SAF Officer Corp has lost respect for this two bit clown.

Shanmugam response to Dominique's death. WTF!

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