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Some asshole at SAF & RSAF should read this article

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
We don't need USD$100 millions F-15SG and F-35 to bomb JI terrorists or even the neighbours. USD$20 million jets are fine. But wait, what will the PAP do with all the billions $ in savings on defence spending? How will they get their kickbacks on such cheap planes? ok, bad idea.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140903-low-cost-fighter-jets-take-off


3 September 2014

The low-cost fighters to serve tomorrow’s air forces

Fighter jets, like the Lockheed F-35, are becoming increasingly expensive. Is it possible to make something much cheaper? Angus Batey reports on a new breed of plane poised to take to the skies.

A Scorpion in search of customers

With the cost of modern warplanes spiralling, one US aircraft maker is going back to basics, with a plane designed to carry out combat roles at a fraction of the cost.

At this summer's Farnborough Air Show in England, the talk was dominated by the mishaps of one plane: the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II, also known as the Joint Strike Fighter. Due to be adopted by major air forces in the decades to come, it was supposed to be the star of the show. But in the end, the $100m-a-unit jet failed to turn up to its coming-out party after an engine fire in one of the production models grounded the fleet.

But another new jet fighter, which had taken less than two years to design, build and fly, did make it to Farnborough. The Textron Scorpion costs $20m, still not exactly a bargain by most people's standards, but a fifth of the cost of the F-35. It suggests that not every advanced defence project has to necessarily come in years late and billions over budget – and points to a new twist in not only the future of fighter-jet design, but also in more humanitarian roles that a budget jet could carry out.



The Scorpion took only two years to go from concept to its first flight (Textron)


As Textron AirLand president Bill Anderson has said, the majority of work devoted to designing and developing fighters over the last several decades has focused on creating expensive, sophisticated machines. Whether it's Lockheed’s F-35 and F-22 Raptor, the Eurofighter Typhoon or the Boeing F/A-18, the designs have reflected the desire for advanced performance over affordability. Yet in today's economic environment, cost is becoming an unavoidably compelling issue for even the richest western nations.

Budget busters

Textron aren’t the only ones creating the tech to address this issue. The single jet fighter JF-17 is a Chinese design, currently being built in collaboration with its sole export customer, Pakistan, and is said to be available for around the same per-plane price of US$20m. Meanwhile, a Russian design, the Yak-130, has also been touted as a low-cost plane to carry out everything from air combat to reconnaissance, as well as train pilots.

There are three main classes of potential customers for planes like the Scorpion, which has a top speed of around 520mph. The first are air forces who want a small jet aircraft capable of carrying out a range of strike and intelligence-gathering missions, and who have either never flown combat jets before or are looking to replace older aircraft. The second are countries who already have, or are developing, high-end fighter forces, but who might buy fewer of the more expensive jets to obtain a larger number of cheaper aircraft. The third are the major military powers who will need the advanced jets for simpler missions in low-risk environments



The Russian Yak-130 is being marketed as a light strike fighter as well as a training aircraft (AFP/Getty Images)


But how exactly do you make something as complex and technologically challenging as a fighter plane cheaper? Textron looked to its existing suppliers and used components that were already in production, rather than designing everything from scratch (the F-35, for example, uses an engine which was developed especially for the aircraft). The development team was deliberately kept very small, so Anderson and Scorpion chief designer, Dale Tutt, could make decisions quickly.

"Once we'd developed the initial design concept we set high-level design requirements for the team, and we didn't overburden them with a lot of detailed requirements," Tutt says. “We didn't have to invest time in developing, for example, a new engine or ejection seat. We were able to focus on putting those components together for the airplane and get it flying."

Patrol role

Textron also had the advantage of not having to meet the requirements of a specific nation or an air force. This meant that the development team could make changes to the design if they felt it would help the overall project.

"A great example is [British ejection-seat specialists] Martin Baker," says Anderson. "They sent a group of engineers over and they looked at our cockpit cup design, and they said, 'Well, our seat's not gonna work. It'll be several million dollars and 18 months for us to redesign it. But if you can give us about five more inches of volume - three in length and two in width – it will work.' So guess what we did? We made the cockpit tub a little bigger."



The Chinese JF-17 is a supersonic fighter plane with a price tag the same as the slower Scorpion (AFP/Getty Images)


The Scorpion followed its Farnborough appearance with a demonstration at an exercise in Textron's home state of Kansas, designed to simulate the aftermath of a natural disaster (a major tornado strike) on the region. The jet wasn't used in a fighter role: instead it supplied full-motion video surveillance footage to ground commanders, in a role much like the one carried out today by drones in Afghanistan. Textron wants to enter the Scorpion in the competition the US Air Force will run next year to buy 350 jet trainers to replace its obsolete fleet of T-38s, which have been serving since the 1960s. It also points to additional roles, such as border surveillance, humanitarian assistance and maritime patrol, as jobs the jet can also comfortably carry out.

"Even among the very wealthy countries we're speaking to, everyone is recognising we have to become more economical," Anderson stresses. "No doubt we need high-end fighters: but pilots need to fly, and we can't afford the airplanes we have and to fly the pilots enough to make them combat-sufficient. I think most countries recognise that you don't always need a high-end aircraft.”
 

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
u know why?thats cause those military general types are living in a fantasy world,they think the sky's the limit,their budgets are unlimited,whatever they want just ask and they will get it,just because they think its necessary in that wacked up minds of theirs,others have no choice but to write out the million dollar checks for them.....they think money grows on trees.....they spend money lavishly because its not their money anyway......this problem is prevalent in every government agency but in the military its the worst....

these generals have no idea what the real world is like,how private sector works and what is economics......in the real world if a company behaves like a military they would go bankrupt in no time,any how suka suka spend millions on marketing,suka suka spend millions on storefront and factory expansion,suka suka spend on inventory and R&D for no reason......but not the military,the military is a company that never goes bankrupt,doesnt matter whether the economy is good or bad,the military's budget can only grow bigger and bigger.if the army had to make a profit like real companies do,they have to spend their own money and earn their own money,u can guarantee they will cut corners like nobody business,suddenly they will come to their senses......use the cheapest russian/chinese fighters/helicopters.....buy 2nd hand tanks from 3rd world countries.....cut the wages of jiak liao bee officers....cut down the number of bases,airfields.......equip all the soldiers with ak47s.
 
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Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
u know why?thats cause those military general types are living in a fantasy world,they think the sky's the limit,their budgets are unlimited,whatever they want just ask and they will get it,just because they think its necessary in that wacked up minds of theirs,others have no choice but to write out the million dollar checks for them.....they think money grows on trees.....they spend money lavishly because its not their money anyway......this problem is prevalent in every government agency but in the military its the worst....

these generals have no idea what the real world is like,how private sector works and what is economics......in the real world if a company behaves like a military they would go bankrupt in no time,any how suka suka spend millions on marketing,suka suka spend millions on storefront and factory expansion,suka suka spend on inventory and R&D for no reason......but not the military,the military is a company that never goes bankrupt,doesnt matter whether the economy is good or bad,the military's budget can only grow bigger and bigger.if the army had to make a profit like real companies do,they have to spend their own money and earn their own money,u can guarantee they will cut corners like nobody business,suddenly they will come to their senses......use the cheapest russian/chinese fighters/helicopters.....buy 2nd hand tanks from 3rd world countries.....cut the wages of jiak liao bee officers....cut down the number of bases,airfields.......equip all the soldiers with ak47s.

This is all the fault of the new scholar generals. The old timers always used to buy the cost effective used equipment and always got our money's worth. eg used Skyhawks, used AMX-13, used Centurions, etc. we kept the money in house because we did the upgrades and modifications ourselves. eg AMX-13 to SM1, A-4s to super skyhawk, etc. Now the new scholars who have no war experience are buying the spanking new high end stuff. And DSTA is too stupid to ask for at least some offset economic benefits. All the billions $ spend on these new equipment just going to the economies and work force of the US, France, Israel, etc. Fucking stupid PAP.
 

laksaboy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Buying military toys is a modern method of a vassal state paying tribute to its master state.
 

enterprise2

Alfrescian
Loyal
RSAF not interested in low cost fighters. We had them in the F/5Es or Superskyhawks. Why get rid of them and buy another low cost fighter??
 

Jlokta

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
RSAF not interested in low cost fighters. We had them in the F/5Es or Superskyhawks. Why get rid of them and buy another low cost fighter??

When you have plenty of cash to splash, why drive a cherry QQ when you can zoom around in a swanky falali?
 

wMulew

Alfrescian
Loyal
Those are cheap jets meant for 3rd world Airforce. The F-35 is a stealth fighter, those examples are not. It's like comparing a Ferrari with a Chery QQ.

Those jets are good enough to scare off terrorist and fighting with countries with non-existent like the Philippines but not for everyone.

We all know where SG greatest threat comes from and guess what they are already at that airforce capability. RSAF not just have to match them, due to lesser numbers we have to outshoot them. We obviously have to get better equipment than them. U retards need to apply some brain power before posting nonsense.
 

sochi2014

Alfrescian
Loyal
walau aye trainers can be used for carrying out intercept or ground attack roles?

so many keyboard generals here? LOL!

watch this!!

[video=youtube;u3MA3s1cPqY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3MA3s1cPqY[/video]
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
walau aye trainers can be used for carrying out intercept or ground attack roles?

so many keyboard generals here? LOL!

watch this!!

[video=youtube;u3MA3s1cPqY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3MA3s1cPqY[/video]

So, u really think the SAF generals are not keyboard generals too? If they can talk military affairs, so can I.
 

tanwahtiu

Alfrescian
Loyal
Singapore economy is mainly constructions build and build and build. LKY only know how to build and then up in this

http://www.smh.com.au/national/publ...enomenon-of-nonsense-jobs-20130831-2sy3j.html

Then need more nonsense high technologies and need more nonsenses generals to maintain USA nonsense war machines.

In PAP case, cheaper is better and cheaper is faster too in manpower, Sinkies don't fit in they are dafts. FTs better. Jiu hu kia better to.

In PAP case of war machine, they perceived cheaper war plane no better and cheaper equipment is not fast enough, die die must buy the worst machines made by chao conmen angmohs.





u know why?thats cause those military general types are living in a fantasy world,they think the sky's the limit,their budgets are unlimited,whatever they want just ask and they will get it,just because they think its necessary in that wacked up minds of theirs,others have no choice but to write out the million dollar checks for them.....they think money grows on trees.....they spend money lavishly because its not their money anyway......this problem is prevalent in every government agency but in the military its the worst....

these generals have no idea what the real world is like,how private sector works and what is economics......in the real world if a company behaves like a military they would go bankrupt in no time,any how suka suka spend millions on marketing,suka suka spend millions on storefront and factory expansion,suka suka spend on inventory and R&D for no reason......but not the military,the military is a company that never goes bankrupt,doesnt matter whether the economy is good or bad,the military's budget can only grow bigger and bigger.if the army had to make a profit like real companies do,they have to spend their own money and earn their own money,u can guarantee they will cut corners like nobody business,suddenly they will come to their senses......use the cheapest russian/chinese fighters/helicopters.....buy 2nd hand tanks from 3rd world countries.....cut the wages of jiak liao bee officers....cut down the number of bases,airfields.......equip all the soldiers with ak47s.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Singapore economy is mainly constructions build and build and build. LKY only know how to build and then up in this

http://www.smh.com.au/national/publ...enomenon-of-nonsense-jobs-20130831-2sy3j.html

Then need more nonsense high technologies and need more nonsenses generals to maintain USA nonsense war machines.

In PAP case, cheaper is better and cheaper is faster too in manpower, Sinkies don't fit in they are dafts. FTs better. Jiu hu kia better to.

In PAP case of war machine, they perceived cheaper war plane no better and cheaper equipment is not fast enough, die die must buy the worst machines made by chao conmen angmohs.

The kickback on a $20 million plane not as much as that on a $100 million plane mah. How to buy cheap planes?
 

kukubird59

Alfrescian
Loyal
So, u really think the SAF generals are not keyboard generals too? If they can talk military affairs, so can I.
hahaha....of course u can....
in fact u can talk about everything under the sun...
the only problem is u are an empty vessel making more noises than sense.....
better stick to spouting vulgarities which are good at.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
RSaF already got a yak130 variation. Its called aermachi mb399.

No, its called the M-346. The Jews bought this plane and based on their recommendations, the RSAF bought it too. The Jews must have got some commissions for referring us suckers to buy it. The Italian air force itself only bought 15 of these things. We are already sending pilots for training at NFTC in Canada. I don't know why we need to buy these 12 M-436 and base them in France.

As far as I am concerned, pilot candidates can go for their basic training on PC-21 at 130 Squadron in Pearce, and than go to NFTC in Canada for their jet training on Hawks. After all, Singaporean pilots are already being send there for basic jet training. But I guess CFB Cold LAke is too cold and no fun for the RSAF jet jockeys and Cazaux, France is more shiok to do training. The Israelis are budgeting to buy and maintain their planes will cost USD$65 million each over 20 years or 1/3 the cost of a F-35. Not cheap at all. Originally, they thought it would cost $20 million. Not cheap at all. What they paid for these trainers, they could have gotten real ground attack aircraft like the SU-25 Frogfoot.

http://defense-update.com/20130103_iaf_m346_life_cycle_cost.html#.VAppi_F0xjp
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
hahaha....of course u can....
in fact u can talk about everything under the sun...
the only problem is u are an empty vessel making more noises than sense.....
better stick to spouting vulgarities which are good at.

Yes, i talk about everything under the sun, I want to talk about your anal relationship with your mother. Stop fucking her backside, can or not?
 

Cerebral

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
Those are cheap jets meant for 3rd world Airforce. The F-35 is a stealth fighter, those examples are not. It's like comparing a Ferrari with a Chery QQ.

Those jets are good enough to scare off terrorist and fighting with countries with non-existent like the Philippines but not for everyone.

We all know where SG greatest threat comes from and guess what they are already at that airforce capability. RSAF not just have to match them, due to lesser numbers we have to outshoot them. We obviously have to get better equipment than them. U retards need to apply some brain power before posting nonsense.

Singapore is 40 by 20. We can't even get the aircraft airborne. They just need to station a battery of artilleries and we are fucked. The only way is pre emptive. You think your pap masters dare to do pre emptive even though our plans are such?
 
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