• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

GIC Raided Reserves To Pay CPF Members

xingguy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Source: likedatosocanmeh

20140805 GIC raided reserves to pay CPF members after 2011 due to very low returns
August 5, 2014 by phillip ang

In his reply to WP MP Gerald Giam’s and other MPs’ questions on CPF, DPM Tharman finally revealed GIC’s 5-year return in Singapore dollar was peanuts at 0.5%. It now appears our reserves had been used raided to pay CPF members 2.5% to 5% returns.

DPM Tharman’s figures (2012/2013 US$ and S$ five year return)

Table A

CURRENCY5 YEAR10 YEAR20 YEAR20 YEAR REAL RETURN
US $2.60%8.80%6.50%4.0%
SING $0.50%?????????

(Figures in US$ are of no relevance to CPF members besides for comparison purposes. Ultimately, returns from foreign investments have to be converted into Singapore dollar to be paid to CPF members. GIC is not being upfront on this and it is obvious returns in Singapore dollar is much lower due Singapore dollar appreciation. Publishing returns in Singapore currency will expose GIC’s weak performance.)

How were CPF members paid with GIC’s 5-year 0.5% returns?

A 0.5% compounded interest of a $100 initial capital increases to $102.53 after 5 years. Total yearly interests add up to 2.53%. (Compound Interest Calculator)

If GIC made total returns of only 2.53% for 5 years, how did GIC manage to pay CPF members between 2.5% to 5% every year?

Total CPF credited to members:

Table B (in S$ millions)

YEAR20082009201020112012TOTAL
TOTAL CPF5455.16092.66709.87472.78209.633939.8

From 2008 to 2012, CPF members were paid $33 billion by GIC.

On 4 August, Gerald Giam asked DPM Tharman the following questions in Parliament:

(a) whether the buffer of “net assets” that are used by the Government to ensure that Special Singapore Government Securities (SSGS) interest rates are paid to the CPF Board even in years when GIC’s returns are weak refers to
(i) past Government reserves requiring Presidential assent for drawdown
(ii) current Government reserves or (iii) current or past reserves accumulated by GIC or MAS; and
(b) what limitations apply to the use of these net assets.

DPM Tharman’s reply merely reiterated GIC’s framework, how funds are comingled so that GIC has the excuse not to know where they originated from, history of GIC and before it was formed, GIC’s unverifiable “good long-term returns”, past and current reserves, etc. Tharman was clearly evasive in his non reply.

Some questions in Parliament could be easily answered with a ‘yes’ or ‘no’. A multiple choice question could be easily answered. But PAP politicians love to beat around the bush every time they try to conceal information from the public.

Government raided past reserves to pay CPF members

DPM Tharman was unable to be concise in his reply because the government did raid our past reserves. The government had already indirectly confirmed this with GIC’s 5-year 0.5% return in Sing dollar.

The returns of most funds took a hit during the 2008 financial crisis but recovered subsequently in 2009 and 2010. GIC’s 5-year S$ 0.5% return can be inferred from:

- 2008/2009 – huge losses.
– 2009/2010 to 2010/2011 – regain losses
2010/2011, 2011/2012 to 2012/2013 – gains which account for most of the S$ 0.5% return.

Performance of SWFs generally mirror that of Norway’s with a steep loss in 2008 followed by a subsequent recovery.

Norway’s yearly pension fund returns from 2008 to 2012. (No reason for GIC not to publish its yearly returns)

norway20pension20fund52.jpg


Since there were insufficient current reserves in 2011 and 2012 (post election), GIC therefore must have drawn on past reserves to pay CPF members.

But of course the president wouldn’t know

Was the president consulted on using our reserves to pay CPF members? The answer is likely ‘no’ judging from the ignorance of our past president Mr Nathan. Just before stepping down as president, Nathan revealed that “past reserves have been used 27 times” when in fact it was “used 55 times”. Tony Tan, our current president has been silent on just about every major issue affecting Singaporeans. So he is unlikely to be aware if our reserves have been used.

thumb_colourbox507117622.jpg

Conclusion

DPM Tharman’s 14-point reply appears to be an attempt to obfuscate the CPF/GIC issue and conceal important information from the public.

GIC has been earning less than the amount it has paid out to CPF members after the general election. GIC should clarify how CPF members were paid if it did not draw on past reserves.

End of article​


 

xingguy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Netizen's comment when the above article was posted in TR EMERITUS.

gic-like-rotting-onion:
August 9, 2014 at 10:18 am (Quote)
Every peeling of the GIC onion reveals a rotting skin within. The whole CPF-SGSS-GIC relationship & mechanism is truly kaput! In fact, it shows up the whole idiotic system that was constructed to manage Singapore’s pension system & national wealth.

1. GIC manages the state’s commingled funds in international markets or overseas investments. In the period going back to the post-Asian Currency Crisis 1998, the Singapore govt. via MAS exercised a strong SIN$ appreciation approach with the Exchange Rate policy. In contrast, from 2009 onwards, the developed world are engaging in a currency war trying to reinflate their stagnant economies. The obvious result of reinflation ie. QE’s are currency rate depreciation. What this tells you is that any currency translation from overseas investments to the SIN$ carries an explicit conversion loss.

2. Since the collapsed of Communism or State-led initiated economic system – it is clear that a market oriented economy with it’s chaotic yet dynamic thrust works better than State-led initiated one. But as we look at GIC – we see a State-led investment arm. That alone says everything & it’s past performance & benchmarks against other SWF confirms that State-led investments can be a huge drawback.

3. Mismatch of CPF-SGSS guaranteed returns with GIC market-derived returns. This is the greatest fallacy of the whole investment conundrum. The overwhelming majority felt shortchanged by the 2.5% pa interest paid on their CPF balance. That the govt. via GIC creams off the investment surplus by their fantastic investments.
That was theoretically speaking.
I saw things differently – I saw a bumbling GIC underperforming on the 2.5% hurdle rate – it kept tripping over! The Singapore State-led investment arms never had a great track-record investing overseas be it Suzhou SIP, Ansett Airlines, ABC Learning Centers, Merrill Lynch, Citibank, etc. It was a standing joke!

Hence the greater amounts being retained in CPF minimum sums on retirement age comes as no surprise. In addition, the churning in the domestic economy ie. GLC’s Profit Maximization, foreigners influx, real estate bubble & REITs financialization vehicles – all drove up domestic inflation. You see, money lost need to be recoup via any means. Everyone knows Singapore Inc. is a bully at home but totally useless abroad.
 

mojito

Alfrescian
Loyal
As a public servant, i am most grateful to the government for giving me a job given the current economic situation. Indeed there are areas where it has become obvious we did not do as well, but thanks to the PAP we will be staying together and moving ahead without you. Tee hee!
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Reserves are nothing more than a category of funds that belong to the taxpayer so the term "raided" does not apply.

When I run low on my current account, I transfer money from my savings account in order to cover expenses. I don't "raid" my expense account as the money is mine too. It's just happens to be in a different account.

The fact that the government transfers funds in order to honor withdrawals shows that it honors all its financial commitments. Kudos to the PAP for its prudent management of taxpayer funds.

No other government in the world has done such an excellent job. In most Western countries, governments are mired in debt and have lost the ability to pay what they owe or are paying exorbitant amounts in interest and the expense of the taxpayer.

Take NZ for example, net foreign debt currently stands at more than NZ$140 BILLION or 104.4% of GDP!!!!!

NZ is paying for welfare that it cannot afford and has to borrow money daily to fund a lifestyle that it cannot afford.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Why is CPF managed by the wife of the PM?!?!?!?!

When running an organisation, it is important to appoint people who can be trusted to positions of responsibility. If you cannot trust your own wife and mother of your own children, then who can you trust? :rolleyes:
 

Bigfuck

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
You claim back all the remunerations from the Lee family and related cronies, we can pay for CPF for decades.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Hope you and others understand the difference. Without the oldpieceofshit, the PM would probably have been a maths lecturer married to a chiobu. :wink:

I'm not sure about that. It might well have been yandao.
 

escher

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Netizen's comment when the above article was posted in TR EMERITUS.

gic-like-rotting-onion:
August 9, 2014 at 10:18 am (Quote)
Every peeling of the GIC onion reveals a rotting skin within. The whole CPF-SGSS-GIC relationship & mechanism is truly kaput! In fact, it shows up the whole idiotic system that was constructed to manage Singapore’s pension system & national wealth.

1. GIC manages the state’s commingled funds in international markets or overseas investments. In the period going back to the post-Asian Currency Crisis 1998, the Singapore govt. via MAS exercised a strong SIN$ appreciation approach with the Exchange Rate policy. In contrast, from 2009 onwards, the developed world are engaging in a currency war trying to reinflate their stagnant economies. The obvious result of reinflation ie. QE’s are currency rate depreciation. What this tells you is that any currency translation from overseas investments to the SIN$ carries an explicit conversion loss.

2. Since the collapsed of Communism or State-led initiated economic system – it is clear that a market oriented economy with it’s chaotic yet dynamic thrust works better than State-led initiated one. But as we look at GIC – we see a State-led investment arm. That alone says everything & it’s past performance & benchmarks against other SWF confirms that State-led investments can be a huge drawback.

3. Mismatch of CPF-SGSS guaranteed returns with GIC market-derived returns. This is the greatest fallacy of the whole investment conundrum. The overwhelming majority felt shortchanged by the 2.5% pa interest paid on their CPF balance. That the govt. via GIC creams off the investment surplus by their fantastic investments.
That was theoretically speaking.
I saw things differently – I saw a bumbling GIC underperforming on the 2.5% hurdle rate – it kept tripping over! The Singapore State-led investment arms never had a great track-record investing overseas be it Suzhou SIP, Ansett Airlines, ABC Learning Centers, Merrill Lynch, Citibank, etc. It was a standing joke!

Hence the greater amounts being retained in CPF minimum sums on retirement age comes as no surprise. In addition, the churning in the domestic economy ie. GLC’s Profit Maximization, foreigners influx, real estate bubble & REITs financialization vehicles – all drove up domestic inflation. You see, money lost need to be recoup via any means. Everyone knows Singapore Inc. is a bully at home but totally useless abroad.




PAP is finished.
The stinking glue and terror that hold PAP together is that old fart smear of shit on sole of shoe LKY. LKY is about to die in days or weeks.
LKY will never allow good decent people into the PAP and good decent people will not want to get into the PAP. Those in PAP are the most corrupt and moral degenerates and moral bankrupts and moral filths that are being presented to stinkaporeans as moral compasses.
None of those in PAP work for anyone but that smear of shit on sole of shoe LKY, to help him hold down Singaporeans to screw and fuck hundreds of BILLIONs from us all into smear of shit on sole of shoe LKY stinkapore sovereign funds.
Maggots and cockroaches are appointed as ministers in parliament
Kangaroos are frolicking in High Court instead of being allowed to wander and roam about in the Zoo
They are there in PAP because LKY know that they are a bunch of self serving greedy bastards and scrapings of scums of society. To call them maggots cockroaches will be to insult real maggots and real cockroaches.



WE ALL ARE NOW WAITING FOR THE DEATH OF LKY IN COMING DAYS OR WEEKS.
WE ALL WILL YUM SENG AND YUM SENG AND YUM SENG AGAIN AND AGAIN DANCING SINGING ON TABLE TOPS AND STREETS
WE THEN WILL SEE THOSE IN PAP WITH SHARPENED KNIVES HOOTING ARSEHLOON A DOZEN NEW ARSEHOLES AND THE DEATH OF THE ENTIRE LEE KWA CLAN
WE THEN WILL PICK UP PIANO WIRES AND HANG ALL THOSE REMAINING PAP AND THEIR COLLABORATORS FROM LAMP POSTS AND SEE THOSE BASTARDS AND BITCHES DANCE.
AND HAPPINESS WILL RETURN TO OUR LAND.
AND STINKAPORE WILL BECOME SINGAPORE ONCE MORE.
https://www.torproject.org/about/overview.html.en
 
Top