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SDP - From strength to democratic strength
- Thread starter LaMei
- Start date
Dear cleareyes,
The universe is in constant change, impermanence is the only rule of the universe. While SDP has not been very successful for the past decade, it doesn't mean that it will not succeed in future. Just like SDP has been successful in the early 1990s, doesn't mean that it will continue to be successful thereafter. What goes up will come down. What comes down, may go up again. Never say never in politics.
In politics, perception is everything. Anyone who is a corrupted crook but perceived as a honest and clean person will win the game. There are just too many examples of such in past and present, and I believe we should not be lack of it in future too.
Passion is the first most important thing you need in politics, especially opposition politics. The rest could be trained or taught along the way but nobody could teach you passion though they could ignite it within you. Passion will always come together with purpose and intend. I have never ever underestimated the Power of Passion especially in opposition politics.
I have told many people, in opposition politics, you could lose on all aspects when compared side by side with PAP candidates, be it CV, education, caliber, working/political experiences etc., but there is one thing you must not lose, that is PASSION. The one and only one thing you could and should win is the PASSION.
But many people mistaken Passion as having an angry face... well, I will leave this for another day.
Goh Meng Seng
Though i wont disgree with you the importance of passion, to see passion as the focal point is itself follhardy.
You can have passion all you want, but politics and social change is not about passion, but also about identification of your intent, your target and your object and how do you plan to have it reached.
Passion can drive you far, but when you run around l;ike a headless chicken, what passion would that be when you will not reach your objective and worse, pissed off would-be allies just because of passion? I dun call that passion, I consider that as sheer arrogance.
Blind arrogance and blockheaded disguisted as passion would not get anyone anywhere. We have seen that for the past 30 years where the PAP had outplayed and outrun any passion the opposition can come up with.
Its always the head that rule over the heart.
I can simply refer to your three points with three question:
Will this "world" be able to put that "leader" up anywhere apart from talking all the time with no actions and results shown?
Will constant contributing to "national issues" be of any help when very rarely in the public is listening or following?
Will an award for a website contribute to the political prowess of a political party, or just showing they are good in website design but weak in all other areas?
As I have said, I would never disagree with passion, but when one wants to attract attention, its in the same thing in marketing, to sell to others what they want and not to boast to others what they would not bother about.
You cant sell yourself to the voters, you cant win their votes. No matter how many IT awards you wont and how much of the "world" recognised you and you will be forever going nowhere.
Perhaps i would agree on a further point: SDP is nolonger a political party but more of a political activitist organisation. Winning votes and changing society through votes is nolonger their priority.
Its calls for balance but passion has to be there first. When you lack passion, you appear somewhat insincere and mercenary.
In the Singapore context, passion might be an additional factor for votes when there is lack of skills and political acumen.
A good example is Seelan Palay. You can see that the guy is driven, passionate and his conviction is clear. His understanding of political history is poor and political acumen is also poor. However he would get votes because he is sincere and passionate. He will certainlly not win the race (not because his ethnicity)but he will get higher than average votes. Remember the 30+40+30 equation.
It will be hard to get people with above avreage skills and acumen and prepared to suffer the spotlight of the ruling regime so one must do with passion, conviction, sincerity and available options. I have more regard for these sort of people than 95% of the NMPs that they have and had over the years.
Lets be encouraging and those faces on that picture is so much better than some of the photos that we see of serial politiciansand their parties who don't show any passion.
I would certainly like to Alex Au who has bucketloads of both but his overzealous partiality towards the guys who bat on the other side is quite strong medicine for our heartlands. Then again I might be wrong, the people might indeed embrace him.
This GE will be interesting and pretty much a watershed. There are guaranteed opposition seats. Knowing Singaporean trait of looking at numbers, don't be surprised that a new political party with candidates with above average qualifications being formed. Even Independents. They will likely make a statement to the effect that they rspect the PAP for its achievements but they feel that they can contribute as well.
In the Singapore context, passion might be an additional factor for votes when there is lack of skills and political acumen.
A good example is Seelan Palay. You can see that the guy is driven, passionate and his conviction is clear. His understanding of political history is poor and political acumen is also poor. However he would get votes because he is sincere and passionate. He will certainlly not win the race (not because his ethnicity)but he will get higher than average votes. Remember the 30+40+30 equation.
It will be hard to get people with above avreage skills and acumen and prepared to suffer the spotlight of the ruling regime so one must do with passion, conviction, sincerity and available options. I have more regard for these sort of people than 95% of the NMPs that they have and had over the years.
Lets be encouraging and those faces on that picture is so much better than some of the photos that we see of serial politiciansand their parties who don't show any passion.
I would certainly like to Alex Au who has bucketloads of both but his overzealous partiality towards the guys who bat on the other side is quite strong medicine for our heartlands. Then again I might be wrong, the people might indeed embrace him.
This GE will be interesting and pretty much a watershed. There are guaranteed opposition seats. Knowing Singaporean trait of looking at numbers, don't be surprised that a new political party with candidates with above average qualifications being formed. Even Independents. They will likely make a statement to the effect that they rspect the PAP for its achievements but they feel that they can contribute as well.
Again, I agreed very much with the passion, but passion must come with objective and capability.
We have seen many with passion, passion of which even i admit I do not have. But with no skill, no plan and no purpose, I do not see where this passion can get anyone to.
What makes you think Chiam See Tong would be around?
http://chiam-see-tong.blogspot.com
http://chiam-see-tong.blogspot.com
alamak, ah seng!
the winning of SDP was due to chiam see tong and NOT traitor chee. when he took over, everything SDP won collapse. the record now with chee in charge always get the lowest votes.
in the next GE, chee might not be around to erect. he's permanent ED-ed. now with the influx of the geylang cheongster, the abc desperate disloyal wife and a 1/2past6 lawyer, SDP is permanently doomed!
SDP might face a close-shop warrant soon with so much leegal suits haven't settled amicably or properly.
please descend from your tranquil mountain once awhile and eavedrop on what peasants are talking about SDP. it has never been good and now it has gotten even worst!
Dear Scroobal
Passion in modern political is directed to a simple political aim, rabble rouse, mislead, and get the vote or get out the vote to close the final deal with the voter, to sell yourself to him.
The PAP lacks the fire and the passion because in their zeal to win at all costs they have made politics risk free and created political "paper" "generals."
On the other hand you have passionate opposition candidates who can't control their passion and make insanely stupid remarks which make the PAP look like geniuses of self control.
Locke
Passion in modern political is directed to a simple political aim, rabble rouse, mislead, and get the vote or get out the vote to close the final deal with the voter, to sell yourself to him.
The PAP lacks the fire and the passion because in their zeal to win at all costs they have made politics risk free and created political "paper" "generals."
On the other hand you have passionate opposition candidates who can't control their passion and make insanely stupid remarks which make the PAP look like geniuses of self control.
Locke
u mean the chee is the one with a pair of horns, a forked tail? your kind of "god" is it?
infraction? :p
he won't be. u think chee would be around too? would u think SDP would still be there? flip back the records and check on how chee's trying to fix singapore
On the other hand you have passionate opposition candidates who can't control their passion and make insanely stupid remarks which make the PAP look like geniuses of self control.
Agree. Like Low saying that the PAP gets a passing grade, like Yaw blogging about his voting for the PAP and Sylvia saying that Singapore’s laws are fair and just. Bunch of clowns!
Agree. Like Low saying that the PAP gets a passing grade, like Yaw blogging about his voting for the PAP and Sylvia saying that Singapore’s laws are fair and just. Bunch of clowns!
I heard from a friend that Chee Soon Juan was an ex police supervisor in the past. Is it true?
If it is true then my friend told me that CSJ is a bloody sadist. He is as sick as LKY. I hear that during his time as a police officer, he uses a hammer and a thick telephone book and tortured his prisoners until they have internal injuries.
If this is true then CSJ is one sick fucker. If he came into power, he will be as sick as LKY. I hope someone can prove to me that I am wrong, if not I think I better not vote him into parliment.
Can Uncle Yap proved this is not true? If this is untrue then I will apologised to CSJ. If what I said is true then Singaporeans will have an even tougher time if we are under this sick fuck CSJ.
If it is true then my friend told me that CSJ is a bloody sadist. He is as sick as LKY. I hear that during his time as a police officer, he uses a hammer and a thick telephone book and tortured his prisoners until they have internal injuries.
If this is true then CSJ is one sick fucker. If he came into power, he will be as sick as LKY. I hope someone can prove to me that I am wrong, if not I think I better not vote him into parliment.
Can Uncle Yap proved this is not true? If this is untrue then I will apologised to CSJ. If what I said is true then Singaporeans will have an even tougher time if we are under this sick fuck CSJ.
for a moment i tot you were describing some familiar thunder party?
CSJ served his NS in the Police Force and rose to the rank of ASP. He held staff appointments during his NS tenure. He was very respected and liked by his men from what I can gather. Not much of a friend you have.
This is the challenge that SDP has been facing all these years. It certainly has not gone away. Chee has to be clear what is party line and what is not. He has also to be fair for those in his party who intend to stand in a GE to provide a "political party" face rather than a "human right", "constitutional civil rights" and other NGO badged type front.
His audience thus far has been old man, PAP and foreign press and interest group. He has to swing back to voters as his did in Macpherson.
His topics has to be precise and must resonate with heartlanders.
It must be affordable housing for the young vs World Consumer Day
Its must be Temasek and CPF funds vs drug lords from Burma
Its must be jobs for Singaporeans vs humans rights for PRC/Burmese
Its must be GRC as high a barrier for fair elections vs death sentence for traffickers
and many more.
He must also bite the bullet and have a chat with couple characters not doubt with high passion about opening their trap and saying the wrong. things.
His audience thus far has been old man, PAP and foreign press and interest group. He has to swing back to voters as his did in Macpherson.
His topics has to be precise and must resonate with heartlanders.
It must be affordable housing for the young vs World Consumer Day
Its must be Temasek and CPF funds vs drug lords from Burma
Its must be jobs for Singaporeans vs humans rights for PRC/Burmese
Its must be GRC as high a barrier for fair elections vs death sentence for traffickers
and many more.
He must also bite the bullet and have a chat with couple characters not doubt with high passion about opening their trap and saying the wrong. things.
Promising Start, Poor Finish
1. 2001 Election
SDP correctly identified "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" as the election issue whilst others were still scratching their heads. Instead of following through, the campaign transformed into political activism, a defamation suit and a final low score.
2. 2006 Election
SDP contested one of the weakest GRCs. Before the campaign started, it was slapped with a defamation suit. Instead of following through the contest and then face the consquences thereafter, the campaign transformed into political activism and a final low score.
3. 2010-11 Election
SDP has a strong show of members and credible candidates. Will the campaign turn into political activism again if there is a petition to wind up the party just before the election?
Are there ways to counter it other than walking into a wall that one is aware? Why give the 154th ranked the excuse to influence the scores by telling the voters that even if SDP wins, it will be disqualified? The 154th ranked has done it twice before, hasn't it?
There are 365 days x 5 years to do political activism, why do it during the 2 weeks meant for politiking?
N.B. This is not a prediction or an opinion but a simulation based on naive method (borrowing a statistical term). We need to create something to set us discussing.
1. 2001 Election
SDP correctly identified "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" as the election issue whilst others were still scratching their heads. Instead of following through, the campaign transformed into political activism, a defamation suit and a final low score.
2. 2006 Election
SDP contested one of the weakest GRCs. Before the campaign started, it was slapped with a defamation suit. Instead of following through the contest and then face the consquences thereafter, the campaign transformed into political activism and a final low score.
3. 2010-11 Election
SDP has a strong show of members and credible candidates. Will the campaign turn into political activism again if there is a petition to wind up the party just before the election?
Are there ways to counter it other than walking into a wall that one is aware? Why give the 154th ranked the excuse to influence the scores by telling the voters that even if SDP wins, it will be disqualified? The 154th ranked has done it twice before, hasn't it?
There are 365 days x 5 years to do political activism, why do it during the 2 weeks meant for politiking?
N.B. This is not a prediction or an opinion but a simulation based on naive method (borrowing a statistical term). We need to create something to set us discussing.
Dear Scroobal & Phouse,
I have a short good talk with a potential candidate for SDP lately (I shall leave his name out at this moment). He felt that going through the political activism part is an important and necessary process to become "leader" of the political party or movement.
I pointed to the fact that LKY himself did not start as a politician perse. He started off as a "human rights/anti-colonial" lawyer. He only took up court case instead of going straight into banging walls with the Colonial government back then. He gained his political capital by being "legal adviser" to the leftist movement which he later crushed as "communist elements" and disbanded altogether.
Taiwan's most corrupted ex-president Chen Shui Bian did almost the same thing as LKY. He became the lawyer representing those who were being rounded up by the KMT government. He gained enough political capital to become the president without having to crash directly on the political activism front but preserve himself as an eligible candidate in the elections.
My friend didn't think much of the NCMP scheme, regarded it as "backdoor MP" into the parliament. My argument is, there are many other PAP MPs whom have not gained a single vote to get into parliament, along with all the other NMPs. Any opposition NCMPs have fought and gained the support of at least thousands if not tens of thousands to walk into parliament. Those MPs and NMPs who walked into parliament without a single vote are BackDoor MPs, not NCMPs.
SDP has to discard the narrow definitions they have for political engagement. If they are here to fight for democratic development, they must understand that they should not discard the parliamentary route altogether. My friend understood the weight that one puts on NCMP by Singaporeans but just living in self denial of such recognition. Singaporeans will look upon anyone who are NCMPs differently and chances are, if you don't screw up in parliament and in normal private life, you would be voted into parliament again.
The misconception that with a few opposition MPs in parliament is useless must be eradicated. There are many things opposition could do in parliament if they get 5 of them into it. The fire has to be started somewhere. Never mind if it is just 2 or 3 opposition MPs/NCMPs. Small sparks can become big forest fire later on.
My conclusion to him is that SDP has to preserve its strength in providing enough candidates for the next elections which will be the watershed battle for all opposition parties. With the expanded NCMP scheme, opposition parties are not merely fighting against PAP but now, in effectively competiting among themselves. Any opposition parties that cannot get at least one NCMP or MP into parliament this coming round, the party would be effectively marginalized politically.
This may be the strategy of PAP to wipe out smaller and "undesirable" opposition parties in time to come, particularly SDP through the process. I would say that if NSP is not able to get any seats, be it NCMP or MP by the next GE, it would have been politically marginalized as well.
If SDP and NSP wants to stay relevant in Singapore politics, they would have to find ways to make gain in the coming GE. There is no second way about it.
Goh Meng Seng
I have a short good talk with a potential candidate for SDP lately (I shall leave his name out at this moment). He felt that going through the political activism part is an important and necessary process to become "leader" of the political party or movement.
I pointed to the fact that LKY himself did not start as a politician perse. He started off as a "human rights/anti-colonial" lawyer. He only took up court case instead of going straight into banging walls with the Colonial government back then. He gained his political capital by being "legal adviser" to the leftist movement which he later crushed as "communist elements" and disbanded altogether.
Taiwan's most corrupted ex-president Chen Shui Bian did almost the same thing as LKY. He became the lawyer representing those who were being rounded up by the KMT government. He gained enough political capital to become the president without having to crash directly on the political activism front but preserve himself as an eligible candidate in the elections.
My friend didn't think much of the NCMP scheme, regarded it as "backdoor MP" into the parliament. My argument is, there are many other PAP MPs whom have not gained a single vote to get into parliament, along with all the other NMPs. Any opposition NCMPs have fought and gained the support of at least thousands if not tens of thousands to walk into parliament. Those MPs and NMPs who walked into parliament without a single vote are BackDoor MPs, not NCMPs.
SDP has to discard the narrow definitions they have for political engagement. If they are here to fight for democratic development, they must understand that they should not discard the parliamentary route altogether. My friend understood the weight that one puts on NCMP by Singaporeans but just living in self denial of such recognition. Singaporeans will look upon anyone who are NCMPs differently and chances are, if you don't screw up in parliament and in normal private life, you would be voted into parliament again.
The misconception that with a few opposition MPs in parliament is useless must be eradicated. There are many things opposition could do in parliament if they get 5 of them into it. The fire has to be started somewhere. Never mind if it is just 2 or 3 opposition MPs/NCMPs. Small sparks can become big forest fire later on.
My conclusion to him is that SDP has to preserve its strength in providing enough candidates for the next elections which will be the watershed battle for all opposition parties. With the expanded NCMP scheme, opposition parties are not merely fighting against PAP but now, in effectively competiting among themselves. Any opposition parties that cannot get at least one NCMP or MP into parliament this coming round, the party would be effectively marginalized politically.
This may be the strategy of PAP to wipe out smaller and "undesirable" opposition parties in time to come, particularly SDP through the process. I would say that if NSP is not able to get any seats, be it NCMP or MP by the next GE, it would have been politically marginalized as well.
If SDP and NSP wants to stay relevant in Singapore politics, they would have to find ways to make gain in the coming GE. There is no second way about it.
Goh Meng Seng
Agree with your views.
NCMP should be viewed as similar to proportional voting scheme. These are people who have got sizeable votes but did not go first past the post. There is no comparison between NMP and NCMP, both in form and shape. Both Steve and Sylvia did well in their time in parliament and both had polled highest among those that failed to first past the post. I am actually surprised that people have difficulty differientiating the 2.
I too tend to get tired with the argument that opposition lacks calibre. Thats exactly the argument that the PAP prefers. What people don't see is that the less seats the PAP wins, the less acceptance of PAP by the people.
One aspect however is to push those in opposition holding seats to be more forthright and engaging. The playbook audience are singaporeans and not the PAP. I liked Steve, because he asked probing question that needed LHL to explain very grudgingly. Low and Sylvia tend to be more policy and philosophy driven and will have cover "petty issues" such as Lim Bee Wah and table tennis etc. Chiam in his early days did both.
For SDP, this probably last chance. Till today, they blame the PAP for screwing them during the last elections. The difference between WP under JBJ and SDP were that former did alot of damage during the hustings and then got sued. SDP got sued even before the hustings. Poor Poliitical acumen.
SDP must realise that we are not interested in HR, Burma, Drug traffickers or old man. We are also not interested in Gandhi, Mandela, protest, walk-out, demonstartions or cheap t-shirts. We want them to get seats. Talk to us rather than confront this tyrannical govt. They all should sit around a table and work out how Sylvia made a fool of Ng Eng Hen as the hustings began, leading to him replaved by Viv B.
The members of SDP must realise that they are not individuals but party members. If you listen to any of them, they all have separate interest, tlak about separate things etc. They need to have a uniform party line.
They also must understand the reality of whats going on why old man and son has not sought petition to wind up the party. Its obvious that they are using SDP to act as a contrast and backdrop to potential "roundtable" to join the fray but don't be surprised that they will call themselves as non-partisans, determined to offer viable alternative views.
This is where, the opposition parties who have been unified all these years to prevent a "Jufrie" a 3 cornered fight, will have consider if these roundtables candidates are genuine opposition materials.
NCMP should be viewed as similar to proportional voting scheme. These are people who have got sizeable votes but did not go first past the post. There is no comparison between NMP and NCMP, both in form and shape. Both Steve and Sylvia did well in their time in parliament and both had polled highest among those that failed to first past the post. I am actually surprised that people have difficulty differientiating the 2.
I too tend to get tired with the argument that opposition lacks calibre. Thats exactly the argument that the PAP prefers. What people don't see is that the less seats the PAP wins, the less acceptance of PAP by the people.
One aspect however is to push those in opposition holding seats to be more forthright and engaging. The playbook audience are singaporeans and not the PAP. I liked Steve, because he asked probing question that needed LHL to explain very grudgingly. Low and Sylvia tend to be more policy and philosophy driven and will have cover "petty issues" such as Lim Bee Wah and table tennis etc. Chiam in his early days did both.
For SDP, this probably last chance. Till today, they blame the PAP for screwing them during the last elections. The difference between WP under JBJ and SDP were that former did alot of damage during the hustings and then got sued. SDP got sued even before the hustings. Poor Poliitical acumen.
SDP must realise that we are not interested in HR, Burma, Drug traffickers or old man. We are also not interested in Gandhi, Mandela, protest, walk-out, demonstartions or cheap t-shirts. We want them to get seats. Talk to us rather than confront this tyrannical govt. They all should sit around a table and work out how Sylvia made a fool of Ng Eng Hen as the hustings began, leading to him replaved by Viv B.
The members of SDP must realise that they are not individuals but party members. If you listen to any of them, they all have separate interest, tlak about separate things etc. They need to have a uniform party line.
They also must understand the reality of whats going on why old man and son has not sought petition to wind up the party. Its obvious that they are using SDP to act as a contrast and backdrop to potential "roundtable" to join the fray but don't be surprised that they will call themselves as non-partisans, determined to offer viable alternative views.
This is where, the opposition parties who have been unified all these years to prevent a "Jufrie" a 3 cornered fight, will have consider if these roundtables candidates are genuine opposition materials.
let me guess. could it be a certain nerd with plenty of turds?
many had been viciosly bitten by him before. my l'l brother LEETAHSAR has learned a good lesson from the mastershapeshifter so gms are u playing with a deadly venomous snake and hope to be bitten twice?Dear GMS
The SDP has always had a nothing or everything mindset. Elections are not free fair and democratic and thus the results are unreflective of the will of the people. They have thus been hindered from competeting effectively and they will thus resort to extra parliamentary means. Given a level playing field, they are sure that people will vote for them.
Granted that whole reasoning above is premised on the ability to challenge effectively PAP rule and to be able to offer effective alternative government. What they can't see sadly is the fact that winning despite the odds , one grc or two grcs will effectively force the PAP to shift its political position in response to such a loss in order to stem the loss of votes. Limited objectives versus the grand objective, they just do not seem to buy into the limited objective view
Locke
The SDP has always had a nothing or everything mindset. Elections are not free fair and democratic and thus the results are unreflective of the will of the people. They have thus been hindered from competeting effectively and they will thus resort to extra parliamentary means. Given a level playing field, they are sure that people will vote for them.
Granted that whole reasoning above is premised on the ability to challenge effectively PAP rule and to be able to offer effective alternative government. What they can't see sadly is the fact that winning despite the odds , one grc or two grcs will effectively force the PAP to shift its political position in response to such a loss in order to stem the loss of votes. Limited objectives versus the grand objective, they just do not seem to buy into the limited objective view
Locke
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