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Serious MIW on Brexit.
- Thread starter zeroo
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Re: LKY is right again! Brixit!
Our Great Founding Father had the sharpest of insights
Lee was, however, pessimistic about the euro and the European Union when he was interviewed for One Man’s View of the World. He believed that without real fiscal integration, the euro in its current form is doomed, and that without deeper integration into a sort of United States of Europe, “Europe will be reduced to the role of supporting actor”. While it was clear to him that the best course for the EU was to integrate further, he also noted that it was going to be difficult at the same time, almost impossible even. Countries in Europe are too caught up in its past and history. The EU has also grown too large and disparate to be able to reach a consensus on the future. Lee believed that the EU was likely to fail because of “too fast an enlargement” and that the euro in its “present form” cannot be saved because “you cannot have monetary integration without fiscal integration”. He also remarked that “the euro’s record will be seen by posterity as a dismal one, and any attempt to salvage political credit for the single currency project will come up against cold, hard reality”.
Yet, Lee was quick to add in the same interview that he wrote “more in sorrow than in derision about Europe’s inevitable decline”. He was not against the EU. Indeed, even when he was discussing Singapore in The New York Times in 2007, he was of the view that: “If we were Malta, we would have joined the EU.” He believed that “integration holds great promise apart from just peace”, and concluded that if the Europeans were to deepen its integration efforts, it “would have much greater economic clout” and “a much bigger voice in international affairs”.
Our Great Founding Father had the sharpest of insights
Lee was, however, pessimistic about the euro and the European Union when he was interviewed for One Man’s View of the World. He believed that without real fiscal integration, the euro in its current form is doomed, and that without deeper integration into a sort of United States of Europe, “Europe will be reduced to the role of supporting actor”. While it was clear to him that the best course for the EU was to integrate further, he also noted that it was going to be difficult at the same time, almost impossible even. Countries in Europe are too caught up in its past and history. The EU has also grown too large and disparate to be able to reach a consensus on the future. Lee believed that the EU was likely to fail because of “too fast an enlargement” and that the euro in its “present form” cannot be saved because “you cannot have monetary integration without fiscal integration”. He also remarked that “the euro’s record will be seen by posterity as a dismal one, and any attempt to salvage political credit for the single currency project will come up against cold, hard reality”.
Yet, Lee was quick to add in the same interview that he wrote “more in sorrow than in derision about Europe’s inevitable decline”. He was not against the EU. Indeed, even when he was discussing Singapore in The New York Times in 2007, he was of the view that: “If we were Malta, we would have joined the EU.” He believed that “integration holds great promise apart from just peace”, and concluded that if the Europeans were to deepen its integration efforts, it “would have much greater economic clout” and “a much bigger voice in international affairs”.
Bilhari & Tommy Koh on Brexit
So are they right ?
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/singapore-leaders-weigh/2901114.html
Ambassador-at-Large Bilahari Kausikan also weighed in on the Brexit vote.
“It isn’t often you see a country commit suicide before your eyes,” said Mr Bilahari to Channel NewsAsia.
“We are also witnessing the tragically irrational consequences of western democracy. The UK is only an example of the dysfunctionality of a system taken to extremes," he added.
In a Facebook post, Ambassador-at-Large Tommy Koh said Mr Cameron had "messed up big time by holding an unnecessary referendum".
"The result is a tragedy for the UK and for the EU. It is a victory for populism over rationality. It is a victory for fear over hope. It will probably lead to the secession of Scotland from the UK," he wrote.
"The global wave of populism which is sweeping the world is a danger to Democracy and to democratic institutions. Let us hope that it will not invade Singapore," he added.
So are they right ?
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/singapore-leaders-weigh/2901114.html
Ambassador-at-Large Bilahari Kausikan also weighed in on the Brexit vote.
“It isn’t often you see a country commit suicide before your eyes,” said Mr Bilahari to Channel NewsAsia.
“We are also witnessing the tragically irrational consequences of western democracy. The UK is only an example of the dysfunctionality of a system taken to extremes," he added.
In a Facebook post, Ambassador-at-Large Tommy Koh said Mr Cameron had "messed up big time by holding an unnecessary referendum".
"The result is a tragedy for the UK and for the EU. It is a victory for populism over rationality. It is a victory for fear over hope. It will probably lead to the secession of Scotland from the UK," he wrote.
"The global wave of populism which is sweeping the world is a danger to Democracy and to democratic institutions. Let us hope that it will not invade Singapore," he added.
Re: Bilhari & Tommy Koh on Brexit
Well we know after this no other EU country is gonna hold any referendum anytime soon!
Well we know after this no other EU country is gonna hold any referendum anytime soon!
Re: Bilhari & Tommy Koh on Brexit
Pretty much identical observations by both our ambassadors at large. So how did they come to this conclusion. My sense is that both worked and functioned in an era where countries were forging military alliances, political unions and associations and common markets. We had NATO, Asean, APEC, EU, etc. This has been the bread and butter of diplomats all around the World. They seem stuck on a practice and a way of life for much of their career.
I guess they can spend the rest of their retirement watching the UK.
Pretty much identical observations by both our ambassadors at large. So how did they come to this conclusion. My sense is that both worked and functioned in an era where countries were forging military alliances, political unions and associations and common markets. We had NATO, Asean, APEC, EU, etc. This has been the bread and butter of diplomats all around the World. They seem stuck on a practice and a way of life for much of their career.
I guess they can spend the rest of their retirement watching the UK.
Re: Bilhari & Tommy Koh on Brexit
There is a reason why refugees from all around the world trudge thru Europe to gather at Calais in France to cross over to the UK. I believe if the EU do not change its ways, Denmark and Sweden will go towards a referendum as well. Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU.
There is a reason why refugees from all around the world trudge thru Europe to gather at Calais in France to cross over to the UK. I believe if the EU do not change its ways, Denmark and Sweden will go towards a referendum as well. Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU.
Re: Bilhari & Tommy Koh on Brexit
This time the leading tank will not stop or move away.
This time the leading tank will not stop or move away.
Re: Bilhari & Tommy Koh on Brexit
It's a very different situation if u r in EU and quits vs someone who's not in EU in the first place! We r talking countries here!
It's a very different situation if u r in EU and quits vs someone who's not in EU in the first place! We r talking countries here!
Re: Gay Loong talk cock about Brexit, but he does not put his money where his mouth i
He's a reflection of you.
He's a reflection of you.
Re: Gay Loong talk cock about Brexit, but he does not put his money where his mouth i
they, the 70%, will never learned, no point educating them any further.
they, the 70%, will never learned, no point educating them any further.
Re: Gay Loong talk cock about Brexit, but he does not put his money where his mouth i
Believe it or not, 70% Sinkies will continue to feel good.
Believe it or not, 70% Sinkies will continue to feel good.
Re: Bilhari & Tommy Koh on Brexit
These two love talking and no action. When Singaporeans were in bad shape and they saw it, they talked and did nothing to save the people. When our govt disagreed with them, they apologised and moved on..
These two love talking and no action. When Singaporeans were in bad shape and they saw it, they talked and did nothing to save the people. When our govt disagreed with them, they apologised and moved on..
Brexit: DPM Tharman have spoken
Tharman Shanmugaratnam
Divided We Leave.
That’s what the UK referendum result looks like. London and Scotland voted to stay in the EU; Wales and the English provinces outside London voted to leave. The majority of the educated class voting to stay; the less educated to leave. Those doing well in their jobs and incomes voting to stay; those who felt they’ve been losing out voted to leave. Many more of the young voted to stay; old voting to leave.
It will take some time to draw the full lessons of the vote. The big issues are not about financial markets or economics. The markets will react negatively, and overshoot, but this will not be like 2008 when the house came down. There will be a loss of growth in the UK and Europe because of the uncertainty of the next few years, and the weaknesses there will also hurt the rest of the world including us in Asia.
But the more profound questions revolve around politics. Many of the people who voted for Britain to leave Europe, like those in England’s industrial cities, may end up being hurt by its economic consequences. Yet their frustration over their jobs and wages, and their fear of uncontrolled immigration if Britain stayed in Europe, has shaped their votes.
There is a new brew in politics around the world, especially in the most mature democracies like the US, UK and in Europe. The growing appeal of nationalist politics, demagogues, and in some cases outright racism. (There was in fact all of that in the UK referendum debate.) A growing disaffection with the establishment. A weakening of trust and consensus in society, and of the centre in politics. That too has happened in the UK itself, with the two major parties now weakened.
As politics gets fragmented, the political extremes will gain appeal. We do not know where this will lead to, but it cannot mean anything good. But to tackle it, the politics of the centre must stay connected to the challenges that ordinary people face - and address their need for jobs and security, and a balance in immigration that preserves a sense of identity. Tackling this without turning inward, and weakening jobs and society further, is the central challenge everywhere.
Tharman Shanmugaratnam
Divided We Leave.
That’s what the UK referendum result looks like. London and Scotland voted to stay in the EU; Wales and the English provinces outside London voted to leave. The majority of the educated class voting to stay; the less educated to leave. Those doing well in their jobs and incomes voting to stay; those who felt they’ve been losing out voted to leave. Many more of the young voted to stay; old voting to leave.
It will take some time to draw the full lessons of the vote. The big issues are not about financial markets or economics. The markets will react negatively, and overshoot, but this will not be like 2008 when the house came down. There will be a loss of growth in the UK and Europe because of the uncertainty of the next few years, and the weaknesses there will also hurt the rest of the world including us in Asia.
But the more profound questions revolve around politics. Many of the people who voted for Britain to leave Europe, like those in England’s industrial cities, may end up being hurt by its economic consequences. Yet their frustration over their jobs and wages, and their fear of uncontrolled immigration if Britain stayed in Europe, has shaped their votes.
There is a new brew in politics around the world, especially in the most mature democracies like the US, UK and in Europe. The growing appeal of nationalist politics, demagogues, and in some cases outright racism. (There was in fact all of that in the UK referendum debate.) A growing disaffection with the establishment. A weakening of trust and consensus in society, and of the centre in politics. That too has happened in the UK itself, with the two major parties now weakened.
As politics gets fragmented, the political extremes will gain appeal. We do not know where this will lead to, but it cannot mean anything good. But to tackle it, the politics of the centre must stay connected to the challenges that ordinary people face - and address their need for jobs and security, and a balance in immigration that preserves a sense of identity. Tackling this without turning inward, and weakening jobs and society further, is the central challenge everywhere.
Re: Bilhari & Tommy Koh on Brexit
If he hadn't expressed his view as in the above, nobody would've discovered he's an idiot.....It makes me and my American friends wonder how an idiot can remain on your government's payroll for such a long time...
Are there 2 versions of democracy: western and eastern democracy?
Which country practises eastern democracy? Dun tell me it's Sinkieland.
Tommy Koh would do well to go back to school to learn what the principles of true democracy are and its characteristics.
I'm pretty sure Tommy Koh would advocate that Sinkieland practises the true form of democracy and that the Sinkie government is a democratic institution.
Here in the US the majority of people have never heard of Bilhari and Tommy Koh. But in Sinkieland they are regarded as Haut Savants, the Immortals of Academie Singapourienne if ever there was such an institution.
If he hadn't expressed his view as in the above, nobody would've discovered he's an idiot.....It makes me and my American friends wonder how an idiot can remain on your government's payroll for such a long time...
Are there 2 versions of democracy: western and eastern democracy?
Which country practises eastern democracy? Dun tell me it's Sinkieland.
Tommy Koh would do well to go back to school to learn what the principles of true democracy are and its characteristics.
I'm pretty sure Tommy Koh would advocate that Sinkieland practises the true form of democracy and that the Sinkie government is a democratic institution.
Here in the US the majority of people have never heard of Bilhari and Tommy Koh. But in Sinkieland they are regarded as Haut Savants, the Immortals of Academie Singapourienne if ever there was such an institution.
Re: Brexit: DPM Tharman have spoken
Tharman is like Singapore's answer to Warren Buffett. If The Tarman says UK leaving EU is bad, then it must be bad. Good luck to UK. Their women would be working as maids and hookers in foreign countries within the next few years.
Tharman is like Singapore's answer to Warren Buffett. If The Tarman says UK leaving EU is bad, then it must be bad. Good luck to UK. Their women would be working as maids and hookers in foreign countries within the next few years.
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