Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover up?

[Papsmearer]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

During my time in National Slavery, a case like this would have been covered up & not even leaked out to the public, the boy would just get what the SAF will give out, most likely 'coffin expenses' & that's all. Nowadays people are much aware of what they can do, for they have the education & the resources & money to question!....but still we are still short of knowing what are our RIGHTS as a CITIZEN? For example, the recent schoolboy molest case....they go round in circles finding excuses to deflect the blame as usual.....but nobody , even the parents question the RIGHTS OF THE BOY....the schools & society must be educated on their RIGHTS.

What is the bloody use of all of us, including the kids, everyday of their lives, mouthing the PLEDGE..when they do not even know the RIGHTS OF A CITIZEN...

where is the "justice & equality"....

You are right in that sinkies do not know their rights. they were not taught that in school, the PAP deliberately does not want to tell them, etc. But you have to remember that knowing what your right is and having the will to demand and enforce it is 2 different things. Sinkies might be fully informed about their rights as a citizen, but what will they do with it if the govt violates their right? the balless and kiasu sinkies are not going to demonstrate and rally in the street. Its about the mindset. There are countries where the citizens have no rights, but yet, they have the balls to take to the streets and demand it. That's what happened in those ex Warsaw Pact countries that eventually let to the fall of the iron curtain. In other words, as a citizen, you can be legislated all the rights in the world. But it means nothing if you will not stand up and demand them if the govt takes them away from you.

 

[PTADER]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

Yes, the coroner’s inquiry (CI) in August 2013 was a seemingly transparent process, taking the form of an open hearing fully accessible to the public and media. Yes, we, the family of Dominique, and our legal counsel were also present, and given opportunities to address questions relating to Dominique’s death. And yes, we did post our questions at the CI; however, most of the questions were not answered.

The family must not allow Ng Eng Hen's misdirections to succeed. Remember, there were two inquiries, not one. Bury this gutless and dishonourable weasel with his own words; i.e. the Ministerial statement he made in Parliament on 14 November 2012 following the the Committee of Inquiry's (not Coroner's Inquiry) findings.

 

[kiwibird7]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

Throughout the 50 year history of NS in Singapore, many NSFs have DIED in training cock-ups or got seriously and permanently disabled for life. Everything was always HUSHED UP because the majority of SINKIES support NS conscription. The parents of dead NSFs should really BLAME themselves for the deaths of their sons for they, the voters chose the govt that legislated NS CONSCRIPTION!

The only way to put an absolute end to all this crap is to ABOLISH NS and start a fully professional army. Those who die or are injured do so out of their own career choice with no one to blame. Until NS conscription is ABOLISHED, more NSF deaths would continue.

 

[Leongsam]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

Throughout the 50 year history of NS in Singapore, many NSFs have DIED in training cock-ups or got seriously and permanently disabled for life. Everything was always HUSHED UP because the majority of SINKIES support NS conscription. The parents of dead NSFs should really BLAME themselves for the deaths of their sons for they, the voters chose the govt that legislated NS CONSCRIPTION!

The only way to put an absolute end to all this crap is to ABOLISH NS and start a fully professional army. Those who die or are injured do so out of their own career choice with no one to blame. Until NS conscription is ABOLISHED, more NSF deaths would continue.

Deaths are part and parcel of life. You don't just discard an entity just because of accidents.

Road accidents cause far more deaths than national service but we don't clamor for the closing of the road network because the transport network is an essential part of today's civilized world.

NS deaths are the same. In order for training to be realistic boundaries need to be pushed to make training beneficial. Otherwise it is just a waste of time. The benefits of a strong defense system far outweigh a few sacrifices that have to be made.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

Deaths are part and parcel of life. You don't just discard an entity just because of accidents.

Road accidents cause far more deaths than national service but we don't clamor for the closing of the road network because the transport network is an essential part of today's civilized world.

NS deaths are the same. In order for training to be realistic boundaries need to be pushed to make training beneficial. Otherwise it is just a waste of time. The benefits of a strong defense system far outweigh a few sacrifices that have to be made.

your kind of logic is so fucked up, I question whether u even have half a brain. The entire population has to use roads. that is not a choice. whether you are a women, child, old person, you are going to use the roads at some time as a bus or taxi passenger, or as a passenger in a private car. That is the means to travel around the country and everyone is subject to that.

But NS is only directed at one segment of the population. The rest of the population such as women and children and FTs are not subject to the dangers of NS. There are far more road accident deaths then NS deaths by simple virtue of the fact that many more times the people use the roads then do NS. If you look at NS deaths per 1000 people who served NS versus road accident deaths per 1000 of the population, you will find the NS death is at a much higher rate. Of course, this number will never be known because the SAF will not reveal the number of SAF deaths and the chicken WP will not ask. Any other things I can explain to your low IQ brain?

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

Throughout the 50 year history of NS in Singapore, many NSFs have DIED in training cock-ups or got seriously and permanently disabled for life. Everything was always HUSHED UP because the majority of SINKIES support NS conscription. The parents of dead NSFs should really BLAME themselves for the deaths of their sons for they, the voters chose the govt that legislated NS CONSCRIPTION!

The only way to put an absolute end to all this crap is to ABOLISH NS and start a fully professional army. Those who die or are injured do so out of their own career choice with no one to blame. Until NS conscription is ABOLISHED, more NSF deaths would continue.

well, u have just said it, it was all hushed up. How are sinkies supposed to know the full extent of the deaths and injuries if they were hushed up? And without knowing the full extent, how can they oppose NS? I can tell you that for some people in the know in the SAF and elsewhere, they know the full extent of the deaths and injuries, but are prevented from speaking because they are covered under the Official Secrets Act. But the general population by and large are completely ignorant of the losses that have been suffered. There are a few clues, if you check the obituaries every day, you might see a young man called to God and missed by his unit. Then, you know there was a training death. The most ignorant group are the Malays who usually serve in the SPecial Constabulary or some other support position in NS. They don't see any deaths or training accidents. When I talked to my Malay friends, they are astounded by the casualties once I start to list them. Most of the casualties are in the tougher units like Commandoes and Armour, where not a lot of Malays serve.

The majority of SAF accidents that see the public light are those that happen overseas and the press there is more free and actually report it. As well, when the accident has many witnesses, the SAF also need to report it or else face questions. The ROC Air Force F-5 that crashed into the armour camp in Hukou and killed 2 sinkies and injured 9 cannot be covered up because the Taiwanese press was reporting it. Same for the Arty incident in New Zealand. So, you cannot say they are to blame because they support NS. They were all kept in the dark, and fuck useless oppo parties like WP never ask. All WP has to do is ask "Since the inception of NS, how many SAF personnel have been killed and seriously injured with a breakdown year by year". Like that also, those fucking assholes cannot ask?

 

[scroobal]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

Many years ago, an OCT was accidentally shot and killed in the back during an exercise by his own platoon mate. During the CI, the trainers - Lieutenants and Captains conspired to give a version during the investigation and CI that was untrue. During the CI proceedings as the trainers took turns giving evidence, one of them an overzealous christian convert cracked and claimed that his religion prohibits him from telling a lie and revealed the conspiracy during the proceedings.

Minister of Defence at the time, Goh Chok Tong, called the Judge to stop the proceedings and return an obvious verdict. All the trainers were sacked. Normally OCS trainers are best of breed. No exceptions.

It was the same with Official Secrets Act where Tharman and Patricks Daniel and few others were convicted. During the trial, it became obvious that ST had the classified estimates at hand before Tharman's meeting. That went to a female journalist from another source which the MTI PS knew but did not reveal to ISD who investigated. The Minister of MTI then,our present PM who was his boss was also not told. In the middle of this, The presiding DJ who realised that Tharman was going to be acquitted, asked for the charge to be amended and the DPP who was a former DJ1 had it amended. Tharman was convicted.

The powers then went to Lim Kim San who was Chariman of SPH to tell all those who were convicted not to appeal and they will fix the wrong. LHL had Tharman transferred to Admin Service from MAS. And he has never looked back. Patrick Daniel and the rest of the convicted lot from SPH faced no adverse reaction from their conviction. Manu Bhaskaran as an economist in private practice who was also convicted went on to be a director of GLC subsidiary. The DJ never made it the High Court bench.

The PS who was LHL, classmate was sacked. As for the convictions, it was not fluke that a new law was introduced where convictions of certain categories are considered spent and no longer requires that individual to reveal their conviction.

Some donkey wrote about a Hero Canadian Major who pleaded guilty for a death of soldier. What he did not reveal was that the major offered a reservist officer as a scapegoat when the investigation first began. That scapegoated officer was convicted and dropped 2 ranks down. The Court of Appeal threw out the conviction. The AG when preparing for the appeal realised that they have been sent up the creek, began proceedings against the major. The reason the Major pleaded guilty was to avoid a trial where it would reveal how he sacrificed his no.2 to save his own hide. The wrongly convicted officer was however reinstated to his original rank continues to serve in the reserves. It did not have to take 3 years to clear the mess and destroy people's life. That Major if he had done his duty, no lives would have been lost in the first place and if he had told the truth during the investigation, he would not have tortured an innocent reservist for all the years until the appeal.

This is not in support of Pte whose death was due to an allergic reaction to smoke grenade. But the sometimes when you read reports, articles, etc critical thinking is required. Do not rely on anyone including this government and particularly this govt. Also do not rely on people that cry the loudest and that includes families of those who have lost lives.

In life, governments operate in various ways. The good part is that there are also enough good people to step in when a wrong is blatantly obvious and things need to be corrected. Sometimes the wrong is corrected. Others times, the attempts fails and that is when you lose faith with humanity.

 

[Leongsam]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

your kind of logic is so fucked up, I question whether u even have half a brain. The entire population has to use roads. that is not a choice. whether you are a women, child, old person, you are going to use the roads at some time as a bus or taxi passenger, or as a passenger in a private car. That is the means to travel around the country and everyone is subject to that.

But NS is only directed at one segment of the population. The rest of the population such as women and children and FTs are not subject to the dangers of NS. There are far more road accident deaths then NS deaths by simple virtue of the fact that many more times the people use the roads then do NS. If you look at NS deaths per 1000 people who served NS versus road accident deaths per 1000 of the population, you will find the NS death is at a much higher rate. Of course, this number will never be known because the SAF will not reveal the number of SAF deaths and the chicken WP will not ask. Any other things I can explain to your low IQ brain?

You're the halfwit here. NS has been around since 1967. Most male Singaporeans alive today would either have done NS or will be doing it within the next decade or so.

If you add up the total number of deaths due to NS, it is nowhere near the death toll on the roads. More than 10,000 have died on the roads in the last 40 years. That's 6 to 7 Battalions wiped out.

Singaporeans do not have a choice when it comes to using the roads. However they do have a choice when it comes to doing NS and they have been overwhelmingly endorsing military service at every election. In 2015, 70% of the voting population decided that the risks of NS are definitely worth undertaking for the security and stability of the country.

It's the loser 30% anti PAP brigade who continue to blow a lot of hot air over minor issues.

 

[LionJah]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

The system design to hold down di ppl dem caws dem nuh rise up fi fight di system. Dem get wah dem deserve. Straight up.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

Singaporeans do not have a choice when it comes to using the roads. However they do have a choice when it comes to doing NS and they have been overwhelmingly endorsing military service at every election.
.

Hahahaahaha, you fucking retard, Sinkies have a choice when it come to doing NS? Really? I did not know that.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

If you add up the total number of deaths due to NS, it is nowhere near the death toll on the roads. More than 10,000 have died on the roads in the last 40 years. That's 6 to 7 Battalions wiped out.

.

Pray, enlighten us all. Exactly how many people have died in NS/SAF? I don't know this number. I am shocked you do. Please tell us exactly how many died or else, shut the fuck up.

 

[Leongsam]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

Pray, enlighten us all. Exactly how many people have died in NS/SAF? I don't know this number. I am shocked you do. Please tell us exactly how many died or else, shut the fuck up.

http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=69054

The list states 70 since the beginning of NS in 1967.

Let's say the actual figure is one per month on the average. That would make it 12 per year, 120 in 10 years and 480 in 40 years... still far short of the road toll by any measure.

 

[Leongsam]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

Hahahaahaha, you fucking retard, Sinkies have a choice when it come to doing NS? Really? I did not know that.

That just shows what a moron you are doesn't it.

In the last election every seat was contested. Sinkies could have thrown out the PAP or at the very least turn it into a minority coalition government which would be at the beck and call of the electorate. It would have been easy to stop NS in its current form.

 

[JohnTan]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=69054

The list states 70 since the beginning of NS in 1967.

Let's say the actual figure is one per month on the average. That would make it 12 per year, 120 in 10 years and 480 in 40 years... still far short of the road toll by any measure.

12 dead sinkies a year for NS? That's a small price to pay for good security.

Many other countries lose hundreds, if not thousand of soldiers in actual combat, friendly fire and training accidents in order to protect their country. PAP has done a marvellous job with NS.

 

[Leongsam]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

12 dead sinkies a year for NS? That's a small price to pay for good security.

Many other countries lose hundreds, if not thousand of soldiers in actual combat, friendly fire and training accidents in order to protect their country. PAP has done a marvellous job with NS.

Well said. It is good to see that there is at least one member here with basic common sense. I have added to your points.

Sinkies want all the comforts of life, wealth, security and freedoms but are unwilling to make even small sacrifices in order to achieve this.

 

[borom]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

Its good to see that there are still some people with the guts and determination to fight for what they believe in-how come none of the family members of the 8 fatalities in the SGH hepatitis scandal spoke up or took legal action-or maybe not yet?
Had the same happened in a private hospital, would the families of the rich foreigners behave the same?

 

[Leongsam]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

Minister of Defence at the time, Goh Chok Tong, called the Judge to stop the proceedings and return an obvious verdict. All the trainers were sacked. Normally OCS trainers are best of breed. No exceptions.

Hey that's me you're talking about. Thanks for the compliment. Much appreciated.

 

[Leongsam]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

Its good to see that there are still some people with the guts and determination to fight for what they believe in-how come none of the family members of the 8 fatalities in the SGH hepatitis scandal spoke up or took legal action-or maybe not yet?
Had the same happened in a private hospital, would the families of the rich foreigners behave the same?

I honestly do not understand the fuss being made over this frivolous civil suit being thrown out by the courts because in NZ no civil suits are allowed in the first place. The law specifically disallows such claims.

The state determines the amount of compensation and that's it. Victims or their families can launch appeals against the quantum awarded but the person who caused the death or injury is protected from liability.

http://www.wilsonharle.com/new-zealand-legal-environment/

 

[tanakow]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

Does NZ practise conscription?

 

[harimau]

Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

Wah SAF so transparent one har?

Who is the idiot Ministar of Defence?